Overcoming a Band's "We don't have any money" problem

<p>There is a pretty big music festival coming up with 40+ bands. I really dig the music and am generally unknown the these bands so i went ahead and contacted them. I figure for $50.00 I can shoot each bands set, enjoy myself, get back stage and make some decent money over the weekend. I normally shoot modeling/senior portfolios but have been shooting "Party Bands" for the past year or so. I don't do alot of original music bands so thats why i'm unknown.<br>

I got some responces back stating they don't have the money, I showed them my work and almost all of them showed real interest but when it came to money they didn't have it.<br>

How would you go about finding the real reason they wouldnt book you? $50 isn't all that much and I take some pretty awesome shots, two of the party bands i shot used the live events in their cd's.<br>

You can say, it's their loss, but I like to better myself so i'm curious. I asked two of them and they said "Your photographs are amazing, we just dont have the money" You think that's the real reason?</p>

<p>They are probably telling you the truth.</p>

<p>It isn't that they don't have the money, it is they don't want to spend the money--on photographs. Too many groupies with cameras that'll do it for free and not all that bad. Same problem with snowboard shooting, too many with cameras and are good and will do it for nothing or near nothing.</p>

<p>Or maybe they just don't want/need it.</p>

<p>They are telling you the truth. It's very hard to sell artistic services to other artists, especially young/starting out/poor ones.<br>

I don't think the bands are your clients -- they are just your subjects. The labels are the clients. Shoot these bands for free, get a kickin' portfolio, and offer your services to labels who want proven photographers who will work for cheap (i.e. you will get paid something) to shoot new bands of theirs.</p>

<p>They might be telling the truth. Some may personally be able to afford the photography and others may not. They either cannot afford to pay or they are unwilling to pay. David makes some good observations.</p>

<p>Considering that they could very easily go to Craigslist or other posting / listing sites and get photos for free basically (maybe a comp'd pass or free food / beverage) there's no way they'd pay someone for photos.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

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<p>It isn't that they don't have the money, it is they don't want to spend the money--on photographs.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is completely and totally wrong. Pretty much every band loses money every time they play except a very small number of bands that make it big. Big as in Green Day big, not just a major label contract. I've played in bands, shot bands for years, been asked to manage bands (another way to lose money) and hung out with bands. There's no money in it, it's for the love of the music and the scene.</p>

<p>To the original poster: there is not way around this. I talk about it in <a href="../learn/club-photography/photographing-bands-musicians/">my article here on photo.net</a>. Where do you post your photos?</p>

<p>Figure out a way for your images to make them money (you too of course) and I think you'll solve your problem. Create a niche.</p>

<p>It's the truth, especially if these are local bands. I used to play and have been around plenty of bands and local gigs. The entire band MIGHT be making $50 for the gig, which they will have to split 4-5 ways between them. Then they need to cover their gas and food expenses for the trip to play the gig. This of course assumes that they're even getting paid for the gig at all.</p>

<p>Some "party" bands have a more reasonable income to work with, but these are your "tribute" or "cover" bands that have built up a reputation and have regular gigs schedules for large events, so they charge to play. In the music industry you have basically two options, either play in a cover band and make money playing other people's songs, or play in an original band, which means no money but you get to play your own songs instead.</p>

<p>If you think about it, David has got it right - bands perform all the time (hopefully ;-)) and shots of them performing might not appear as interesting or appealing to them (apart from when, for example, they may need them for the inside booklet of a record or a poster or something like that, in which case trust me, they or the organisers or the label will contact a known photographer for that). The advice is solid - get a good portfolio, publish and market it (and yourself) carefully and make sure you're there when photographs are actually needed...;-))))</p>

<p>Bands ain't got no money. Whatever profit they make they spend on more equipment or beer (or other mind altering stuff).<br>

The only way my band could afford photos was because I had a full time job, a dark room, and a self timer on my old Yashica TL Electro.<br>

http://www.mikegodwin.com/images/flite.jpg</p>

<p>Yea, it was the early 80s.. (damn, I look my son)</p>

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<p>All of the above is correct, but I think your $50 price point is an issue for two reasons. To start, I would take a photographer who offers to come shoot much of anything for $50 seriously on the "you get what you pay for" theory. Shooting serious pictures of a band performing is hard work and worth much more than $50, especially if any rights for the band to use the photos were going to be included in the price. If a band called a photographer to hire to shoot publicity pictures or a performance they would likely be quoted several hundred dollars minimum. If you're good enough to be charging to shoot the band, you're good enough to be charging a lot more. Don't undervalue yourself. If you don't have much experience shooting original music bands as opposed to party bands, maybe this is the chance to get that experience and get known. I would forget about the $50 up front and shoot for free. What you do beyond that point could go various ways -- no charge up front to the band to shoot, but charge them for prints they want to order or license for promotional use or on CDs (or online with their downloads these days I suppose). Or have a contract giving you rights to sell pictures from this at the next festival. Or whatever else you can come up with.</p>

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<p>If a band called a photographer to hire to shoot publicity pictures or a performance they would likely be quoted several hundred dollars minimum</p>

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<p>"Would likely" is obviously the talk of someone who doesn't do this.<br>

<br />If you want to see what bands pay, it only takes a few minutes on craigslist to find out. Most bands pay between $50 and $100 for shoots like this.</p>

<p>I shoot bands every week, some times as many as ten bands a week, and I can tell you that the money isn't there. I do it for the free entry, the beer, and the occasional pops for a CD cover or a poster.</p>

<p>Listen to Jeff. You have to look long and hard to find someone with more practical up-to-date experience of shooting bands than him. <br /><br />I think shooting music is special. Takes a lot of commitment and passion. I think this is true for most types of photography though - especially when you as the photographer have to put in a lot of hours and work to get those precious few images you're after. I couldn't do what Joel Sartore does and spend weeks in a blind photographing a bird doing it's thing. Joel's the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet with a great family but I swear the man has a patience that is out of this world, at least when it comes to waiting for some wee little something to do whatever it is it does. People like Jeff spend what would feel like eons to me squeezed together by people who perspire enough to double the local air humidity and getting ear-abused by music so loud it'll send you out to the parking lot looking for your eardrums. I couldn't do that either.<br /><br />Then again, I spend 16 to 20 hours in a cruiser sometimes waiting for that 5 second burst of pure adrenaline. It takes all kinds I guess! :-)</p>

<p>Mikael -<br>

I was shooting on a film set for a rock opera on Sunday and was amazed how bored I became waiting for the scenes to be set up. I think I would go nuts in that cruiser. </p>

<p>Lol Jeff, you tend to get absolutely amazing at Brickbreaker very quickly... ah, the things one picks up in a police cruiser... ;-)</p>

<p>I would just worry about building a portfolio and not even worry about making money. Most of the time they will let you in with a camera. If your daring call ahead and tell the club that a photog from AMP is coming to shoot the band. A lot of times they will let you back stage. Be careful they might call you on it. Here is an article in the recent <a href="http://www.boniimages.com/Photo_tech_article.pdf">Photo Technique magazine </a>explaining how to build a portfolio with nightclub shots. I wrote it.</p>

<p>If you're not AMP (whatever that is) it would be foolish to claim you are. Moral aside you can get tossed out and I'm guessing word spreads as quickly in the musical community as in other communities that "..so and so is a lying sack-o-**** and lies about being with (Pick your organization) to be allowed access".<br /><br />I know how this work among photographers in and around law enforcement. Mess up once (within reason), no big deal because we see people that mess up all the time and think that most deserve another chance. Lie and if you're found out you'll be out on your rear faster than you can say 10-8.<br /><br />Legally you might also be in a lot of trouble if you offer images for licensing that were obtained under false pretenses. I don't think a single one of the publishers I work with would ever use my images again if they found out I had pulled something like this. The relationship between the publisher and the photographer (on the editorial side of things) is based on trust, mutual trust. They trust that what I deliver is "real" and that my captions are accurate. Since the publishing world is tiny compared to pretty much any other community you can imagine how fast word spreads in it!<br /><br />Nah, be honest and up front. I mean you're shooting these bands because you love them right? Maybe I'm completely geezerish and old-fashioned but lying doesn't seem to be a great way to start any kind of relationship.</p>

<p>If it involves music, you have to do it for love.</p>

<p>There isn't any money. The only art form with less money is dance.</p>

<p>But I've done it. Shot for magazines that barely paid enough to cover my expenses. Loved every minute!</p>

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<p>They are being nice. They simply don't have any interest in PAYING for professional photos. They might love your work it just might not interest them. $50 is rediculously cheap - just don't sweat it. :)</p>