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Artist Representative (agents) for a children's photographer


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<p>Hello.<br>

I am a children's photographer based in India. I am searching for an artist representative (in usa or europe) to represent me. Please can someone answer my questions. <br>

1) I have been searching for agents on www.workbook.com . Are there any other sites where I can find agents ? <br>

2) What are the things to keep in mind while selecting an agent ?<br>

3) Whats the normal rate of commission an agent will charge? How does the payment work (does the client pay the photographer or the agent ?) Any credit periods to keep in mind while negotiating ?<br>

4) What are the things an agent looks out for in a photographer (while deciding whether to represent a phtoographer or not) .<br>

5) Do agents normally handle shoots within their own city ? <br>

6) I am based in India. Since lots of shoots happen in USA or Europe, Are there agents who fly photographers who are based elsewhere <br>

7) How to identify a good agent ? <br>

8) Any major benefits and drawbacks of having an agent ? <br>

Thank you in advance. <br>

Regards,</p>

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<p>Hi:<br>

If you're looking at places like workbook.com, that means you have serious aspirations. It's been a while since I've been in that universe, but I'd like to take a crack at your questions.</p>

<p>1) In the U.S., there's a group called SPAR that has an agent directory. ( http://www.spar.org/ )</p>

<p>3) The client pays the agent who then pays the photographer.</p>

<p>4) Agents expect you to already be established in the market they're in OR very successful in your own market.</p>

<p>5) Agents normally handle clients within their own city.</p>

<p>6) Be careful here! Not only will you not be flown, you could be remembered as the guy who was so out of it that he expected to be flown in and kill any chances of future business. Only major celebrities get flown in for a shoot. On the other hand; don't be surprised if you wind up with shoots in India from US or European based clients.</p>

<p>7) Long term arrangements with great photographers.</p>

<p>The rest will have to wait for others.</p>

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<p>Thank you Brian and Bob.<br>

Brian , its better to look for agents who can get me assignments (from US/European based clients) which I can shoot in India. Thats great. I am an upcoming photographer. If you know of any agents who would represent an upcoming photographer please can you let me know.<br>

I am even going to write to established agents or any agents which I come across. I never know who might just say yes :) I will leave it to earth to decide who my agent will be . <br>

Is workbook.com a place where serious business happens ? how much is the minimum a children's photographer would get paid in that space. Do photographers there charge per day or per assignment. Here in India commercial phtographers charge per day. <br>

Bob, Yes time and expenses with visa can sometimes be a hassle. I can get 10 yr US visa, and sometimes I can even get a long term shengen visa. I know of photographers who have such visas. They frequently travel, but they have their direct and regular clients since they are very very established. <br>

Thank you once again. </p>

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<p>Bob:<br>

While I have no idea what the legalities are, in my experience (as a photographer and assistant, not anything else!), foreign photographers coming to the US for assignments enter on an "H" visa. Usually the company offering the assignment does the paperwork.</p>

<p>Right now though, we're stuck. Without knowing much more about "Children Photographs" and their business, we can't offer more advice. As Jeff says, we have to see images and tearsheets in order to know where they stand in the marketplace.</p>

 

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<p>Having worked in a great many parts of the world obtaining temporary visas was never a problem. Photographers, PJ's, Journalists etc are welcome in most countries with no issues since they [we] typically generate pr. Granted I haven't done any of this - thank goodness - for over 13 years now but it at least used to be smooth sailings.</p>
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<p>Mike:<br>

Foreign commercial photographers at the top of their game routinely come to the US to shoot. What we don't know is how close our original poster is to the top of their game. They could be 3/4 of the way up the ladder and smelling success or just hurling a few images at stock photo websites and dreaming.</p>

<p>I'm curious!</p>

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Thank you.

 

Yes visa's is not so much of a problem. For some EU countries, you can get a visa within a day. Long term visa's can take

upto a week or two to process. Thats what I have heard from photographers here (India).

 

I will upload my photos here and send the link. I am not yet at the top of my game! Not yet. I want to be. I dream big for

sure. A lot of times I loose, but sometimes I win!

 

Thank you once again.

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<p>Children:<br>

If you're still at the dream stage, you don't have to upload the images. I for one am in no position to judge them. I think people just wanted to see if you were at the level one needs to be at in order to have a big city rep.<br>

My advice to you is to not contact reps in the US and Europe until you have a solid list of national clients in your own country. Otherwise, I can tell you that reps here aren't interesting representing anybody unless they already have major clients and serious revenue.</p>

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<p>Thank you Brian. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>My advice to you is to not contact reps in the US and Europe until you have a solid list of national clients in your own country. Otherwise, I can tell you that reps here aren't interesting representing anybody unless they already have major clients and serious revenue.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If I already have major clients and serious revenue , why would I have a representative ?I cannot understand this thing about representatives. Thank you very much.</p>

 

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<p>I photograph kids full time. If I saw some of your work I might be of some help, but as it stands you are just an anonymous person who says they can shoot.<br>

You're going to have to prove it at some point in the near future.</p>

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<p>Children:<br /><br />Finding a good agent is difficult. They [the agents] are very selective in which clients [photographers] they sign with. The agenct/representative will look at a potential new client to see if there is any chance there that they [agent and client] can work together to find a lot of very lucrative business together. This kind of judgment is - from what I understand - very difficult to make if there is no previous track-record to look at.<br /><br />Photographic agents are more for well established photographers who can afford to be very selective in which jobs and assignments they accept. There's much more money for the agent to make in booking someone like Tom Mangelsen (sp?) or Joel Sartore compared to find me my next assignment. The agent typically gets a cut of the bookings he/she makes. For sake of argument let's say the cut is 25%. If I make $2.500 per assignment and Joel gets around $25.000 the agent will be much better off booking Joel. My puny assignment would make the agent $625 while booking Joel would bring in $6.250 - that's a big difference.<br /><br />Once you have a track record, then start looking for agents. Once you can show that you have worked a number of assignments and the results have been great, it'll be easier for you to find agents. Another thing they look for as far as track record goes is the photographer's ability to finish the assignments given to him/her.<br /><br />Hope that made at least some sense and that I didn't confuse the matter even more...</p>
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<p>Thank you Mikael. Yes it makes sense. A good agent would only work with a photographer who can get him/her (agent) lots of money. Are there smaller agents who represent new photographers? Since every industry will have a range of people from good to bad. I dont want to be with the bad agents. I am more thinking of a smaller agent whose is happy representing new photographers. Or maybe this isn't the case with photo/artist agents. Maybe there are very few, and the ones who exist are good ones. I am not sure at all. Thank you very much once again. </p>
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<p>I don't know Children. I don't work with agents but I have looked into it for consulting other photographers and from what I could find at a cursory glance at least I wasn't able to find any agents that seemed willing to take on new photographers. <br /><br />Brian does indeed know a heck of a lot more than I do about this area of stock photography.<br /><br />If you can access the book Photographer's Market they have a list of photography agents. At least you can look through that list and see if you can find more information. If memory serves they list contact info, what the various agents work with, their web sites etc.</p>
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<p>Mike:</p>

<p>I was under the impression that we weren't talking about stock photography at all. If that's the case, than I take back everything I said. In New York, the phrase "Artist's Representitive" refers to agents that manage the careers of high-end photographers and pretty much implies assignment work.</p>

<p>If I've gotten this wrong, I'll head back to the drawing board.</p>

 

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<p>Okay everybody...I've been waiting for somebody with more inside knowledge than myself to step in and it hasn't happened. This is a real shame; we so rarely get to hear from anybody in that part of the industry on boards like these. I was hoping that my few answers would get the ball rolling.</p>

<p>With that established, I'd like to remind those of you who are still reading that the sort of information that Children requested in later posts (like the possibility of an agent who'd take on a beginner) is very tightly held and would never be mentioned in public this way. With this in mind, I'd like to suggest that there are very few legitimate reps and many pretenders, be very careful!</p>

<p>Finally; the answer to the big question of the thread; "Why do reps only handle the most successful photographers?" The reason for this is that the sort of person who could get a handle on this marketplace and become a rep could easily earn a seven-figure income elsewhere in media, so they only take on clients who can return that sort of income. They're not going to slash their own incomes just to indulge the dreams of some photographer out there. In addition, when it comes to photographers, there are no blockbuster paydays. Top people may get paid well, but their rates of pay are relatively consistent. Agents who rep books and screenplays take more risks on unknown talent because they could wind up with a bestseller.</p>

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<p>Thank you Brian. I understand the scenario totally. The top photographers (in India) whom I have spoken to, have never given me any info regarding reps. I have received all kinds of replies from them, except the answers to my questions! There is a huge similarity about top photographers being confidential about sharing information about agents. Maybe they are insecured, that someone young or a competitor might out-throw them or snatch away their agent! I am not sure what the excat reason is. <br>

But I think the reality is " There are very very few top photographers in the world ". Atleast in India there are very few, and if a few more photographers get added to their level, I think its not going to get the top ones go bankrupt! It certainly wont. I would like to know the thoughts of people about this. Since the reality might be something else.<br>

One thing I will certainly do when I get to the top, is share information. <br>

Brian, one last question, "How can I distinguish between a legitimate agent and a pretender?". The pretenders have cropped up in India too. I have spoken to a few, and some of they hardly even know anything about how a big shoot works (production team handling production, casting team handling models etc). Thank you once again. </p>

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<p>Children:<br>

<br />The idea that working professionals at any level will share specific details of their business in a public forum is just not realistic. If somebody had posted the name of a rep interested in looking at new work, the poor rep would have been flooded with hundreds of portfolios - all completely unvetted. When you're at the top, you'll want to protect your team from these sorts of distractions and will keep secrets for that reason alone. Calling them "insecure" is a red herring.</p>

<p>Consider the question from the other guy's point of view; a stranger who uses a phony name and won't tell you anything about himself asks you for personal information. Would you answer?</p>

<p>People have to have good reason to sit down and answer you. I often respond to marketing threads because I teach it and consider this to be part of my work. I get much of the material for my workshops from exchanges like this one. Mike writes about photo marketing and has his finger on the pulse of that business. So we can describe the structure, but not offer the details. You'll have to work the details out on your own.</p>

<p>As for your last question; it's easy to spot the fakes. They ask you for money up front.</p>

<p>Still though, there's an important issue in this thread that needs to be addressed. If you're trying to build the sort of high-end photo business you dream of, you'll need to be out there showing your work. Looking for an agent is a distraction. The fantasy that somebody else can market you has killed more photo businesses than any other mistake. Don't get suckered in.</p>

 

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<p>Thank you Brian. I understand the way they (agents) work now. I am very sorry for my late reply. I think I should stop with agents for now and concentrates on showcasing my work When i get to the top, probably some smart agent will see the money (potential!). I do not blame the agents. If I was in their place, I would be the same. Look for talent thats going to either increase my income or maintain my existing income.<br>

Yes, I agree a working professional cannot share business details in a public forum.</p>

<blockquote>

<p> Calling them "insecure" is a red herring.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I never said for sure they are insured, since I do not know what the reality is. (In my reply I had mentioned 'I am not sure what the excat reason is.'). I am not all knowing. Irrespective of how a situation looks to my eye, there is a strong possibly I do not know the reality. Top class professionals are human beings too with strengths, weaknesses, insecurities etc like many of us. So there is a possibility of them being insecured about certain things. Its possible. I was talking from my own experience. I will tell you two expereinces. There is a local photo group which I am a part of . There are a few top class professionals (who have agents) in the group. We meet once a month. There is one famous location here where top class photo shoots take place (so obviously some of those professionals have shot there). And there was this photographer who was going to shoot there for the first time. So he asked (some question about lighting) and the top class phtoographers never answered him. Not one of them answerred. A question about lighting is not going to invade their business space in any manner. I have questioned them a few times on the way things work with an agent. I wanted knowledge about the the workings of an agent. I did not want business details . None of them answered me. Based on these experiences and a few other experiences I have had, I was assuming they are insecured. Even in this thread, (i am assuming) a top professional with agents has not replied about the workings in that industry. I am sure there are some top class professionals who share their knowledge. Thank you. </p>

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