lindsay_dobson Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 <p>Craig, there are photographers who are doing just that, which to the greater extent has ignited this discussion. Read Lisa's opening paragraph. Many photographers feel pressured to deliver the goods for an unrealistically low price, others think photography is a means to a quick buck and a CD is the route of least resistence. That in itself creates a mindset in the eyes of the client. There are countless threads on that very subject. For those of us who do value our product, we often have an uphill battle getting that message through to our customers. That's what Rob and I were alluding to.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_clark___minnetonka_mi Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 <p>Back in 2004 I began offering clients flush mounted albums. I used an internet based service company that scanned my medium format film & 35mm as well, and had a feature of being able to build a flush mounted album on line. I found a firm who would mount the prints made from the internet provider.<br> At the same time, when I would attend a bridal show maybe 4-6 photographers would exhibit and I was the only one who had a flush mounted album sample in my booth back then. I would usually sign up 25 to 30 clients after each show.<br /> <br /> Now there are a gadzillion places to get flush mounted albums. There are a gazillion photographers who are now pros. And there are a gazillion places marketing on the internet to brides, wanting vendors to advertise including photographers. Check out some of those sites and count the number of photographers listed. The last bridal show I worked had 27 photographers and I booked 2 weddings. Not worth the expense from money & time anymore. <br /> <br /> Back then people still wanted "formal" group photographs as well as some photojournalism. Now photojournalism is popular and I have a sneaking suspicion that potential clients are questioning why hire a photographer if I can now see it on the back of the camera. This is a topic for debate, however, if that attitude is in the market with potential clients is it becoming like trying to push water uphill?<br /> <br /> I remember taking a 5 day class with Eddie Tapp in 2005 and he said that Adobe and others are making improvements so as the masses will be able to use their products. Same with computers, internet connections and using digital cameras.<br /> <br /> That's progress. You can't stop it. You have to adapt or get a day job or get out of the field. Things are changing, for sure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve m smith Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 <blockquote> <p>Shock, horror!! How<em >dare</em> I expect to work my a*s off and earn enough to pay my bills! </p> </blockquote> <p><br /></p> <blockquote> <p> The hours we work and the sacrifices many of us make are unmatched in most other professions and a better point for some posters to consider is 'why do we do it'? It sure as hell isn't 'for the money'.</p> </blockquote> <p>Sounds like that's exactly why you do it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 <p>Art is the creation of the artist.Whatever the circumstances were under which it was made.... or are you telling me that Michael Angelo was not an artist when he created the chapel ceilings, etc.?</p> <p>Conversely, my 5 year old just presented me with her impressionist version of a fox. That was completely unsolicited or commissioned, but does that qualify it as pure art?</p> <p>You can argue for either, but in the end art is art and we all can call it what we like. </p> <p>Where Wedding photography is concerned, I would not do it for free as it entails a substantial commitment to both the craft and in providing the needed kit and time. OTOH, if it were purely a dollar thing, I can make more per hour elsewhere by a fair margin. So, its not merely for the dollar, nor completely for the art.</p> <p>Wedding photography has its draw for those who celebrate the idea of marriage I dare say, and/or for those who love to create imagery of the human condition at one if its more significant crossroads/junctions. If I were to find myself shooting a wedding with the view of "that's it, times up, I'm gone", I think it would be time for me to quit. I love this particular genre, and love the idea that my clients cherish their images. I search each wedding for more creative ways to showcase my clients distinctness in personality and love. </p> <p>Giving a copy of the files is a natural progression to me.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsay_dobson Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 <p>Steve Smith - I'll overlook your sarcasm because you've entirely missed my point, which is that most photographers work very hard and don't make anything like the living you imagine, just being able to meet our day to day expenses is an achievement - yet we're often condemned for trying to make any profit at all. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve m smith Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 <blockquote> <p>Steve Smith - I'll overlook your sarcasm because you've entirely missed my point</p> </blockquote> <p>Sorry. I'm English. Sarcasm is something we excel in!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 <p>Well said David.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregory_c Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 <p>"""<em>Then I tell them I don't give out my digital pictures and thats an extra fee of $60.00 per photo ""</em>"" ?? ouch,,,</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsay_dobson Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 <p>No worries Steve, I'm English too, perhaps why I excel at sounding sternly school-marmish at times.</p> <p>When I was concentrating on weddings one of my packages gave the option of a fine-quality album OR the disc of images. I wouldn't consider 'giving' the disc to clients just because they expected it - that amounts to grossly undervaluing what you do, as Lisa mentioned. I've found that my automotive clients prefer to buy the high res files (I have a minimum order of 5 images) but portrait clients much prefer bespoke wall-art products - they don't want the hassle of sorting out everything themselves. However I do offer a cost-effective 'web optimized' set of low-rez images, which are watermarked, and these are very popular (usually ending up on Facebook and such-like) as well as being great advertising for my business. These same files are a complimentary add-on to any purchase of full-resolution images.</p> <p>Lisa, what you offer must be of benefit to both sides, not just handed out to appease a demanding (and understandably inexperienced) client base - if you feel the situation is one-sided then it's time to change things so that it's equitable to both parties. I've not run into any problems with clients demanding something I don't want to provide - what I do and don't do is clear at the outset and simply explaining why things are how they are is always helpful to the client. If there is an impasse then the prospect is welcome to go elsewhere, but that should rarely happen if you get your sales model right.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akgraham Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 <p>I have a shop selling widgets and all my friends tell me I should put my prices up but there is a shop down the street selling them for half of what I now charge. </p> <p>People keep asking me to drop my prices and throw in a free umbrella like they get down the street. Don't people realise how hard I work? I blame that other shop for all my misfortune. I hate change.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 <p>Then both of you can merrily go out of the widget business together Andrew ... which will make the umbrella maker very sad ... LOL!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve m smith Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 <p>Nobody uses widgets any more. Doohickeys are the future.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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