Lighting indoor HS games

<p>My question goes out to the people out there that are currently shooting HS indoor sports using lighting devices.<br>

I first have to say I'm not a big fan of it but several agencies that I'm now starting to shoot for require that I light. So this is my question.</p>

<p>For those of you that do. Do you prefer remote speed lights or strobes?</p>

<p>I have an SB-900 and was thinking of buying another one to start lighting, but I could get two 800 Alien bees for almost the same price. So that got me thinking. Is there a draw back to using strobes vs a speed light. Power could be one I know, but functionally? Any thoughts. Or could there be an advantage to strobes?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Alien Bees are probably overkill, use a fast lens (2.8) and high ISO (800-1600) and you should get enough light with/without your on camera flash. Possibly use a remote (2nd) flash if you have line of sight or wireless transmitters under a basket/mounted to basket for basketball etc.<br>

Flash is only gonna help if its close enough to the subject (on camera) or you can light up the gym (bounce off ceilings etc).<br>

Good luck!</p>

 

<p>I shot HS & college sports for decades. While I know gyms vary from region to region I'd say every single HS gym I've ever been in had lighting that was inadequate. Even the few which had enough quantity, had dismal light quality, lacking specularity and causing the results to be lacking in contrast and color fidelity. For HS sports I used on-camera flash 95% of the time. Exceptions included gymnastics and diving, where I could safely shoot practice sessions since they're non-contact events and competitors never appear in the same frame.</p>

<p>For some colleges I've added off-camera remote strobes hung in the rafters, but there are safety and insurance issues and this is not a task for the uninitiated. Even then, you simply cannot bounce these off the gym ceiling. Whether on-camera or remote, you'll be shooting direct, not bounce.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /> <strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

<p>I don't know if the AB800's are strong enough, but I've seen studio strobes used to bounce off the ceiling in gyms. This allows you to overpower the gym lighting and keeps blur to a minimum... if any. You'd need wireless triggers for that to work well (cybersyncs or pocketwizards). Otherwise I'd skip flash and just use fast glass and high ISO. IMO, on-camera flash would be a last resort.</p>

<p>Not long ago, somebody posted a high-framerate burst that did an excellent job of illustrating the

dramatic changes in both illumination and color as indoor basketball lights cycled through

their…um…cycle. Without a flash that can overpower them, you’re entirely at their mercy.</p>

 

<p>I was at an NBA game last week and they were using the setup Henry describes. I couldn’t

see the actual flash units so I have no clue what they were or even how many, but they lit up the entire

arena something fierce. It’s undoubtedly the way to go, as I’m sure it would let you pick

pretty much any aperture and shutter speed you wanted, within reason. I mean, there’s nothing

that says you <em>have</em> to shoot a 300 f/2.8 wide open if you want a bit more DoF, and you

should be able to get some really dramatic shots by dragging the shutter with those lights.</p>

 

<p>Cheers,</p>

 

<p>b&</p>

<p>From the sound of things - available light is not an option, since the company you're shooting for is demanding flash. There are a few sports sites that I am aware of that will no longer accept natural light gym shots... which pretty much means they're out of the gynastics / swimming and diving business.</p>

<p>I've used an sb 800 on - camera - pointed straight up before - almost making it into an area flash - the problem with that is that you still get a flash shadow. For off camera - depending on the size of the arena / gym - SB 800 / 900's won't be big enough...unless you have about 10 of them! The advantage of strobes typically is a faster cycle time, less worry about batteries dying mid event and overall power.</p>

<p>As pointed out - when shooting stobes in an arena - you need to mount them carefully or rope them off so no one trips or knocks them over. Last thing you want is a lawsuit because one of your strobes bounces off of someone's noodle. When setting up remote strobes in an arena most will require a) proof of insurance b) an inspection by one of their people (some may even require that their person install the lights.) and c) proof that you know what you're doing!</p>

<p>Bigger arenas (think college bb/NBA/NHL) have strobes built into their systems - they give the press pass holders the frequency to trigger or else plug in the remotes for them... if they want to use them that is. Occasionally there will be a special shot that SI wants where the lighting needs to be "custom" but I think that is now the exception rather than the rule in most of the newer arenas.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p>Thanks for the input. It sounds like the strobes win.But I may look at a pair of AB1600 to either bounce off of the gym roof or defuse the light. Maybe better to dial back the 1600's and shoot half power or what ever than push the 800's to full power.</p>

<p>As for insurance and mounting I had already assumed that that was a given. There is no way I would put a strobe up in the stands and not make sure that it was tied down or mounted in some fashion.</p>

<p>As I stated in my previous post I'm not a fan of this and would rather shoot available light but the agencies that I am now starting to shoot for are looking for shoots that are shot at a much lower ISO than 1600. So I am forced to conform to their standards to be able to contribute.</p>

<p>David,</p>

 

<p>There’s nothing magical about arena lighting to get romantic about, or wimpy about using flash

to get macho over. If logistics permit it, proper use of flash will give far superior results to anything you

could ever possibly do without.</p>

 

<p>Cheers,</p>

 

<p>b&</p>

<p>I did see this that pretty well illustrates it, there is also one showing the use of AB 800s, but doesn't show stills. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-loJ9iCZ6g">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-loJ9iCZ6g</a><br />Main reason I don't go this route is I like doing bursts of shots which I don't think would work using lights. I did read something on the new Einsteins that has the ability to do fast bursts, but not sure if that is workable for gyms. If anyone knows one way or the other about using lights and shooting at higher burst rates, please chime in.</p>

<p>I had seen a few on You Tube but I had not seen that one. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that one.</p>

<p>Speedlights are strobe lights, just smaller than the bigger strobes.</p>

<p>HS gyms are poorly, almost all of them as Henry stated. I use on-camera flash almost all the time. There have been a few times when I have used line powered strobes, in this case AB800's. I clamp them to the top of the bleacher rails and use radio transceivers to activate. The lights are aimed to bounce and provide direct. Sometimes it works. But it does take time to set them up and take them down. You are also restricted to a much smaller area of the arena.</p>

<p>My preference is ISO 800, f3.5 or better, 1/200 of a second. I let the the flash freeze the motion.</p><div></div>

<p>I shot with the hired shooter at a college b'ball game. He had 4 strobes , one in each corner of the gym. Up high on light stands, maybe 15' or so, pointing down towards the floor. Had battery pack with each. all triggered of course. That would seem to give all around, wrtap around lighting with every shot, no matter where he shot from.<br>

sounds like the right solution to me.</p>

<p>I use AB800s when flash is allowed. Plenty of power so that I can shoot several stops above ambient and freeze the action. And the recycle times are pretty fast.</p>

<p>I usually shoot with a Canon 580 EXII, but I have adjusted the flash to shoot on EEL manual Cfn 5.3. this eliminates the pre-flash and it allows you to use the manual settings. I have been testing shooting with the flash set at 1/16th and 1/32nd --in the basement. It seems to work pretty well. I won't be able to test it at a game until Saturday and I will post the results on this thread. Here is a shot of the EEL Manual set up (I'm using a Canon EOS 1D Mark III.) At this gym which was pretty well lit for a high school, I was allowed to use flash and they had this neat balcony about three to four feet above the floor at one end of the court. Just high enough to "make the shot" of this rebound. ( Note: This image has been modified in Photoshop CS4 with the Topaz Adjust 4 software plugin).</p>

<p>I usually shoot with a Canon 580 EXII, but I have adjusted the flash to shoot on EEL manual Cfn 5.3. this eliminates the pre-flash and it allows you to use the manual settings. I have been testing shooting with the flash set at 1/16th and 1/32nd --in the basement. It seems to work pretty well. I won't be able to test it at a game until Saturday and I will post the results on this thread. Here is a shot of the EEL Manual set up (I'm using a Canon EOS 1D Mark III.) At this gym which was pretty well lit for a high school, I was allowed to use flash and they had this neat balcony about three to four feet above the floor at one end of the court. Just high enough to "make the shot" of this rebound. ( Note: This image has been modified in Photoshop CS4 with the Topaz Adjust 4 software plugin).</p><div></div>

<p>To me the direct flash like that is just too harsh. Bounce or side-lighting just looks more natural to me, guess it is a personal preference.</p>

<p>I shoot high school basketball as well, and I agree with the previous post that just about every gym has inadequate lighting. I do not use a flash because it is not allowed. I use a 28-70mm f/2.8 fixed aperture. I also sometimes use a 50mm f/1.8. Usually these will provide decent pictures, but I have figured out that I get better pictures if I shoot around f/3.2, ISO 1600, and keep my shutter speed as slow as I can but not having any blur. These pictures will almost always be underexposed, but I use Adobe Lightroom, which can adjust the exposure in post production as well as helping with noise reduction and white balance. This program is not very expensive and will prove well worth it in these situations where your lighting is bad.</p>

<p>Hope this helps..</p>

<p>I used to shoot high school basketball years ago in my newspaper days and routinely shot with direct flash, a big Honeywell Strobonar "potato masher." Never really like the direct flash look from it but it worked. If you go to <a href="http://www.strobist.com">www.strobist.com</a> there is a section specifically on lighting high school gyms with shoe-mount flashes. And if you go to <a href="http://www.sportsshooter.com">www.sportsshooter.com</a> and search around there is an article on setting up studio strobes to light NBA and college gyms for playoffs and championship games (and it looks like they have a recent article on small flashes also). Obviously you get more power with bigger flashes but it's a lot of big, heavy gear that usually gets hung from the rafters with the help of a scissor lift vehicle, wired into the AC power and backed up with safety chains, etc. It usually involves more than one person in the setup. If it's a school where you're going to shoot every game for a full season, the school is willing to allow it and your employer wants to pay the bill, go for it. Shooting the strobist way with small flashes is much more practical for the one-man band. You're going to need higher ISOs and wider apertures than the big strobes but can still get good light. It's more on the order of using bungee cords to hold a flash to something on the wall, and Pocket Wizards to trigger them. </p>