Water Temperature Washing Film How Important

<p>I wonder how important water temperature is when it comes to washing the film. I just started processing my own B/W both 135 and 120 format, Acros 100, PX 125 and Neopan 400. All done in HC-11O. For the chemical solutions I try to make them close to 68 especially the HC-110 but in the last step, sometimes I do try to keep the water warm but sometimes I just don't and sometimes the temperature drops below 60F just cold water from the tap. I leave the film in the wash basin let a slow stream of water run and overflow. The water is about 5mm wide flowing down the faucet. In the 15 min mark or so I would dump the sink of water and refill it with fresh water and wash it for another 15 minutes. I finish it by putting the film back to the tank with water and a few drops Kodak photo flo for another minute. I don't know if that's sufficient for wash. The negative usually curl up after drying overnight even I do it inside the bathroom (after hot showers) with a wooden peg weighed down when drying. I don't know if it's because of the cold water wash or it's just the way it is.<br>

Thank you.</p>

<p>Try to keep it close to 68 deg f. Too hot can damage the neg, too cold will wash insufficiently. Paper curls when washed cold, so that might be the reason for your curling negatives. Some 120 & 135 films do curl though.</p>

<p>You are probably getting an adequate wash this way, but you could save a lot of time and water by using Perma Wash or another hypo clearing agent. A good negative washer can be made by getting a large plastic graduate and drilling a few small holes in the bottom for the water to flow out of--fixer is heavier than water, so give it some place to go. As for the curling, have you noticed this problem getting worse during cold weather when the relative humidity in your space is probably much lower than it is in the summer? I have not found the temperature of the wash water to be much of a cause for film curling when it dries, but I would try to keep it close to 68 degrees, especially if you have not used a hypo clearing agent, since the fixer is much less soluble in water at lower temperatures without it. If you have trouble filing your negatives in mylar sleeves because of the curl, try cutting off the corners of the negative strips so that they won't hang up as readily when inserting them into the sleeves.</p>

<p>I have always wondered about this topic as well. I have the opposite problem - higher temperatures due to the Australian humidity etc</p>

<p>If for example I process my chemicals at 20C/21C then the wash water moves up to 28C will reticulation occur? Has anyone identified how high the temperature increase has to be for this to happen? I normally keep about 5 liters cooling in the fridge as wash water, but sometimes I get caught out and forget to do this, hence I have to use the tap water which is warmer than processing temp.</p>

<p>An old pro once told me that warmer water gives a faster wash than 20C, but I have never verified or tested this. Opinions and experiences welcome^^?</p>

<p>Here is info from Ilford's Hypam fixer pdf:</p>

<p>

<p><strong>Washing films</strong><br>

After fixing films are washed to remove the<br>

residual thiosulphate and other by-products of the<br>

process. When a non-hardening fixer has been<br>

used wash the films in running water for 5–10<br>

minutes at a temperature within 5ºC (9ºF) of the<br>

process temperature.<br>

For spiral tank use, when a non-hardening fixer<br>

has been used, the following method of washing is<br>

recommended. This method of washing is faster,<br>

uses less water yet still gives negatives suitable for<br>

long term storage.<br>

After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the<br>

same temperature, +/-5ºC (9ºF), as the processing<br>

solutions and invert it five times. Drain the water<br>

away and refill. Invert the tank ten times. Once<br>

more drain the water away and refill.<br>

Finally invert the tank twenty times and drain the<br>

water away.<br>

<strong>Here is a pdf:</strong><br>

<strong>http://www.darkroom.ru/info/manuals/ilford_hypam_fixer_and_hardener_manual_eng.pdf</strong></p>

</p>

<p>It's not that big of a deal. The water coming from my tap this time of year is below 50F., and that's plenty cold. So this is what I do. I keep about 2L of water in the tempering bath for the final wash. I follow the Ilford washing method to a point, but I've no patience for the whole routine. After washing away most of the residual fixer I fill the tank once more with the tempered water. Without dumping it, I begin to introduce cold tap water very slowly so that the cool down is very gradual. So far, no reticulation problems and the negative are clean as can be after 10 minutes. </p>

<p>I would suggest keeping your wash water within 3-4 degrees of your chemical (dev,stop,fix) temp. Even though the fixer should harden the emulison you can still get reticulation from the "shock" of temp difference. It has happened to me on several occasions.</p>

<p>Ilford recommend a temperature of 15-20 C. I start washing at 20 C, using the Ilford Method, and reduce the temperature step by step to about 15-16 c.</p>

<p>I use KODAFIX solution and dilute per instructions. I understand it's a hardening fixer. I went to Ilford's link above and read briefly and my impression is most film nowadays is hard enough and there isn't necessary to use a hardening fixer. Anyway, if I read the about correctly, Ilford recommends for non hardening fixed film only three tanks of water for washing? Only three tanks?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the same temperature, +/-5ºC (9ºF), as the processing solutions and invert it five times [note: 1st tank]. Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank ten times[note: 2nd tank]. Once more drain the water away and refill[note: 3rd tank]. Finally invert the tank twenty times and drain the water away</p>

</blockquote>

<p>(notes added by me)<br /> I just started processing so I have very little experience.<br /> I like any washing method that's fast and effective. If I remember correctly I think Kodak recommend washing the film from 20 to 30 minutes. And I don't know how exactly regarding the temperature of the water and how serious the water flow is and hence my questions in the original post.... Thank you for sharing the experience. I use an Epson V500 to scan the negative, and it's a struggle to lock down the negatives, part of it is the curl and part of it got to be the design of the negative holder thingy and lastly user error ....</p>

 

<p>You get the best wash if the water doesn't go below 68F, but mostly you don't want temperature changes that might cause reticulation. You can save water and probably get a better wash by using Ilfords multiple soak method. Not sure of the exact details but no doubt it's on their web site. Something like five changes of water and a brief soak in each. That will be much easier to control temperature with, as you can just fill a gallon jug and always take from that. Or, do what I did and install a temperature regulating valve. ;-)<br>

CH</p>

 

<p>I haven't had any issues with films when I wash with cold tap water in the winter with Acros or any other film. I would guess my wash temps get as low as 58 degree F but maybe lower at times, nor in the summer when the water warms up a little above my standard of 68 F development temps. If you can adjust the water to get as close as possible even better. But I would suggest sticking to the 68 F temps and try and get the developer dead on not just as close as you can. Modern grain films like Acros are more sensitive to temp and time changes and it effects the contrast. Kodak even has a multiplier contrast table for their Tmax films that might be worth a look on their tech pages. <br>

Have you heard of hypo wash solutions like Perma Wash? These help aid in washing the film and speed up times tremendously and thus save lot of water. The difference is as a much as 2 min compared to 30 min. I use it for fibre paper prints that take an hour without it. With film I tend to extend the recommended times by about double and give a ten minute final rinse as some films have a tenacious magenta halation layer. <br>

Have fun... </p>

<p>I use a diffusion method for washing my film. After fix, I rinse the tank and the reel with a few dump and refills. Then I let the tank sit for five minutes (filled with water). Then I dump it then refill and let sit for another five minutes. I do this for an hour, then a 30 second photo flo bath before hanging up to dry. I try to keep the water within a couple degrees of 68.</p>