Off camera lighting systems are driving me bonkers...

<p>Hello all. Let me start by thanking everybody in advance for your time on helping me get some things figured out. I am about to purchase a 7D and I currently have a 450D and a 580EXII. I also own (1) Radio Poppers JRx transmitter and (1) basic receiver. My dilemma: I am about to purchase an AlienBees 1600 flash and an additional 800 probably shortly thereafter. I am looking for a way to remotely trigger the AB's while my 580EXII is in the hotshoe. I do not want to use the master/slave option (flash sensor) as they are limited to line of site shooting and don't appear to have the dependability I require. I would really like to find a way to do this while maintaining my ETTL capability in addition to high speed sync. Is there a setup anybody out there you are using to make this all work? I am concerned with the Pocket Wizards reliability reference their repeated problems with RF interference. I am likewise concerned with Radio Poppers lack of high speed sync and their "mounting" setup in general. Is there a product I am overlooking that will do what I need? Please help me get this figured out. Your input and knowledge are my only hope to stop this madness. Thanks again, Doug.<br>

In case anybody would be aided as to how I plan to apply the lighting: My goal is to set the two AB's on opposing sides of a dance floor with the 580EXII mounted on the shoe. I intend on applying the appropriate light modifiers to the AB's and bounce the speedlite or use it for fill depending on my position as it relates to the AB's.</p>

<p>The lack of high speed sync is not so much of a problem with the radio units, the AB mono lights don't have it, nor do they support ETTL. You are planning the impossible.</p>

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<p>I do this all the time, although, to be fair, I've now given up with the shoe-mounted flash mostly as E-TTLII is just too pants for words, and the extra weight of the flash kills my wrist by the end of the day. But in theory, no problem.</p>

 

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<p>I am concerned with the Pocket Wizards reliability reference their repeated problems with RF interference.</p>

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<p>The original PW's don't have any issues; I've found them still to be more reliable than the new products. Connect the transmitter to the camera via the x-sync port - you may have issues with cabling/connector reliability. I solved mine with judicious use of strong tape to apply the correct force to the pc connector on the camera.</p>

<p>Bob's right in that no external flashes support high-speed sync. You might try the hypersync feature on the new PW transmitters to get maybe an extra stop of speed on the shutter, in that case you'll need to shoe-mount them between the flash and the camera. However for myself I'm about to give up on this because of lack of reliability with the new transmitters (which are about to be sunk at the bottom of a deep lake, I am that unhappy with them).</p>

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<p>"I would really like to find a way to do this while maintaining my ETTL capability in addition to high speed sync"<br>

The JrX won't do what you want w/ ABs...I don't think anything will. Once you mix studio strobes in, you have to stop using ettl...</p>

 

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<p>Once you mix studio strobes in, you have to stop using ettl...</p>

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<p>You don't have to stop, particularly, but if you're naive about the settings you're likely to get an overexposure as the ETTL won't count the off-camera strobes. You can use ETTL if the off-camera stuff doesn't touch the subject very much. The OP talks about dance floors, which is exactly where I have done/do this. You can also use it to touch in some fill, though, say at -1 stop. At least you could if it was reliable. Again, it sounds like the OP has thought fairly carefully about what he wants to achieve.</p>

<p>OK--based on the dancefloor situation that Douglas describes, you can use the on camera shoemounted 580EX II in ETTL while triggering the ABs using plain, vanilla triggers (I think the Jrs. are plain vanilla?). Not sure whether HSS can be used on the 580EX II while doing this, because I never wanted to use HSS for the dancefloor situation.</p>

<p>While you aren't 'supposed' to be able to use ETTL in combination with non ETTL flashes, I do it all the time at weddings, and particularly for dancefloor situations. I just use flash comp to dial down the flash. Many times, the 580EX II is really the 'main' light anyway, with the off camera flashes acting to light up backgrounds or as accent lights.</p>

<p>The ABs should be set manually, and obviously, will not be able to perform HSS or ETTL.</p>

<p>You can do what you want to do but you will need a Radio Popper Px transmitter on your 580EX and you'll need RP JRX Studios on your AB's. I use the Radio Popper PX's and Radio Popper Junior Studios and control both my Speedlites and Alien Bees all from the PX transmitter no problem. You have complete control of the flash power output of 3 groups of AB's. I have yet to try high speed sync but they claim it will work. See the video below but the first part is a bit long skip to the middle:</p>

<p>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWm3i3f3pOc</p>

<p>You will not have ETTL with the AB strobes but you will with any EX flash units that you have set up as slaves. Where you only have the one 580EX Speedlite you could use it in ETTL but your ABs would be in manual but you have complete control of their output from the PX Transmitter. If you buy the 7D then you could control the 580EX as a slave and the AB's from the PX transmitter mounted to your 7D. I have contacted Radio Popper about using the PX Transmitter mount that they designed for the Nikons and asked if it would work on the 7D. They mentioned that it would but cautioned that the bases for the Nikons are smaller and that it might fit too loose in the 7D hotshoe. </p>

<p>Thank you all so much for the direct and clearly laid out explanations. Through your statements I have concluded that I would basically be able to maintain ETTL capability with the 580EXII only, and would need the radio poppers transmitter in order to control the AB's which would be set manually and then have their power levels controlled from said transmitter. That actually works out better as it will leave me in full control of my exposures without having to trust ETTL. R Smith, your insight and in depth advice were so very well stated that I feel like I read a book. I will be purchasing the PX transmitter and JrX receivers (I am in love with the reliability that my JrX system has shown) and am confident with the help of all that replied that I can do this right the first time. Thanks again so very much!!</p>

<p>Douglas, You have just about got it all figured out but just be sure to order the JRX Studios and not the JRX Basics. The Studios allow you to have full control over the Alien Bees through the 4 pin telephone jack. Then either the JRX transmitter or the PX transmitter (attached to a 580EX and used as a Master) will trigger and control the flash output for the Alien Bees. The JRX transmitter has 3 small dials for each of the three groups while with the PX transmitter you go to the menu and set the flash output for the Alien Bees under G1, G2 and G3. You have 30 or 32 levels of adjustment with the PX transmitter for each group of alien bees.</p>

<p>You are correct in that you only have ETTL capabilities with the Canon flashes because only they have the preflash capability that your camera requires for determining proper flash exposure. </p>

<p>The Radio Poppers are a very expensive investment but the flexibilty they give you not only for making the Canon wireless system finally usable but also in the ability to integrate your Speedlites with studio strobes and if you have Paul Buff products (Alien Bees or White Lightnings) then you also have full control of them right from your camera. </p>

<p>Have you looked at the Clybersyncs made by Alien Bees? I use the Cyber Commander with my Alien Bees and 580 EX II's. I only use Highspeed sync with my Canon 580 EX not my Alien Bees. But if you are going to make an investment in AB's I think you owe it to yourself to research the Cybersyncs.</p>

<p>Thanks again R Smith. I would not have been happy to get the JrX's basics just to find out they weren't what I needed. :) I will definitely get the PX transmitter as it seems to be taking way too long for the "RP Cube" to come to fruition. M.P., I have checked out the Cybersyncs and would definitely jump on ship if I didn't already have some Radio Poppers gear in my arsenal. Thanks for the heads up boss. </p>