Zeiss Ikonta 521

<p>I just recieved a Zeiss Ikon Ikonta 521 that I purchased on Ebay. It was listed as a 6x9 and that is what I was looking for but, after looking at the pictures more closely I decided it had to be a 6x4.5. When I rcvd it, it was of course pretty obvious that it was 6x4.5, not only from the tiny size but I verified it by measuring the opening in the film plane. My question is why does the inside of the door clearly state: Zeiss Ikon Film, 6x9 B2 2 1/4 x 3 1/4. It's not like the door could be from another camera. It's not big enough to fit any 6x9 folder that I have ever had, or ever seen. Could it be a mistake on the manufacturers part? I have thought of returning it for being incorrectly listed but, I feel like it was an honest mistake on the sellers part since it clearly claims to be 6x9. Any Ideas?</p>

<p>I have had quite a few Zeiss Ikon folders over the years and they all had that little adveret. inside the back door regardless of format size. I think it is to signify the film size (6x9 B2 = 120 film) as opposed to an number of other sizes available at the time (617, 616 etc). It doesn't mean the camera produces 6x9 negatives or that your camera was made up of various parts.</p>

<p>When buying folders off ebay and the seller lists the "6x9 B2 2 1/4 x 3 1/4" from the inside of the camera s proof of the format size and if I cannot tell from the photos, I ask for the lens size. 75mm lens is 6x4.5 or 6x6 and ca.105mm is 6x9.</p>

<p>Is there a removable mask for 6x4.5 that is somehow stuck down? Are there two sets of red "windows" on the back?</p>

<p>That was the full frame film size back then and what you have is a "half-frame" camera. They're all marked like that and it's a tad confusing to us these days. Sort of like a half-fame 35mm camera - but there's no 35mm dimension in the photo size. <br /> <br /> Roger</p>

<p>The 75mm lens and the and the frame counter window being centered on the top(or left) side is what gave it away from the pictures but, I had already bought it at buy it now price when I realized this and when I tried to contact the seller, he did not respond to my inquiry and just shipped it anyway.<br>

JDM, I know the type you are talking about, I recently sold a Certo Certix B that was dual format (except the 6x4.5 mask was missing) but this whole camera is 4 1/2 inches long by 3 1/2 inches tall. It is cute but, just not what I thought I was buying.</p>

<p>I quess what strikes me as odd is that B2 is 120 film which is used in 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9. Did 6x6 and 6x7 formats not exist when this thing was made?</p>

<p>At the time the 6x9 on Ikontas meant they took 120 film, because the 120 film and 6x9 frame size were polularized together and the name stuck until later when other frame sizes became common. At the time German 120 film would have been labeled "6x9 B2" (I'm pretty sure it was Kodak that called them 120, 620, 135 etc.) so it's telling you what kind of film to buy for it. What you have is a "small" camera of the late 40's.</p>

<p>Ziess Ikon model numbers are very confusing, but there is supposed to be some logic to it.<br>

I believe the 6x4.5 Ikontas used model number 520 and 521 without a / other number.<br>

The other film size Ikontas would be something like 520/2 or 521/2 for 6x9 and 520/16 or 521/16 for 6x6.</p>

<p>Why ZI did not use the / number to indicate the number of exposures is strange it would have made more sense to be /8, /12, /16 respectively; but then how would they handle dual format sizes?</p>

 

I generally watch out for other signs as mentioned here.. Focal length, two red windows, you can't always get decent photos, but asking the seller doesn't cost anything! There's such a myriad

of offerings and I've been fooled into biding on 3x4 cameras more than once. I've seen this site

and now I've got it bookmarked http://www.wctatel.net/web/crye/z-i120.htm Thank You Clayton Rye.

HE doesn't swear by it's accuracy, but it is informative!

<p>Zeiss (Berlin/Stuttgart) made at least 26 cameras with the Ikonta name. There are at least 12 different Ikonta 521s. Of these latter, 4 are 4,5x6 cameras and seem to be just plain 521s. The ones that are 6x9 seem mostly to be 521/2, the 6x6 are 521/16. I'm afraid my interest in them is all from Dresden in the postwar years. There are 15 or so Ikontas of various titles made by Zeiss (Dresden). Although there are also A,B,C lettered variants, the 521/ markings seem to use the same numbers as in the West (521/2 for 6x9, 521/16 for 6x6). Then there are the Super Ikontas and the Erconas. So not pinning down the model is surely excusable here. (Chuck, thanks for that link!)</p>

<p>Of all the immediately post-war East German cameras I have that were produced as dual format, the mask for the smaller size survived on only one of them. Unfortunately this mask does not fit any other of the cameras with the same sizes. :(</p>

<p>It is nothing but a relatively simple plate, so I would suppose something could be jury-rigged for these, but I haven't tried that yet.</p>

<p>Yeah, Tom. It's just the 120 film size. Even my cute, little 531A Super Ikonta A, a 6x4.5cm camera from the gate, has 6x9cm on the inside of the door as well.</p><div></div>

<p>Yep, those are the identical markings Louis, the camera is quite similiar too. JDM, the Certo Certix B had simple pop in and out masks but the film rollers were built into the mask so that when you removed the mask you also removed the rollers. Thanks alot to all of you for your help. It is not exactly what I was after but I kind of like the small size. My other 6x4.5 is a Mamiya M645 1000S and while I love the camera, it is kind of hard to fit into your coat pocket.</p>

<p>Tom, hope you have fun with your camera. Have a 3x4 Zeiss 520/18. They are really pocket size!</p>

<p>Thanks Jack, I have to figure out how it works though, it is a little different than other folders I have used, it seems the shutter will only fire if the film advance has been wound and is in a certain position. I am not sure exactly what is up with that but I haven't really messed around with it much either. </p>

<p>What is 3x4 exactly? Is that inches or centimeters?</p>

<p>3x4 is in cm. It's a frame size for 127 film, which is 4 cm wide instead of 6 cm.</p>

<p>Thanks Andrew, I'm glad to hear it is 127 film. If it were something more common then I would be inclined to start looking for one of those as well!</p>

<p>My prewar Ikonta 521 has the same film advice as yours -</p>

<p><strong>Zeiss Ikon Film</strong><br />6 x 9cm <strong>B2 2</strong> 1/4 x 3 1/4 in</p>

<p>As said above this relates to the film used. The camera takes 6x4.5 cm size negatives. I have a bit of sympathy with your ebay seller as the numbering of these caneras does seem a bit chaotic. I especialy like the 521/16 which is a 12 shot square image. Very counter intuitive!</p>

<p>I like the 16 on 120 size Ikonta (and Super-Ikonta) 521. They gave a very large negative for the dinky body size. Here is my Ikonta 521 (16 on 120) posing next to a Kodak retina (35mm) and a Voigtlander Perkeo (16 on 127). That is about 27 square cms for the Ikonta against 12 for the Perkeo and about 10 for the Retina.</p><div></div>

<p>I've a feeling the "B2" designation was something to do with thickness of the spool. It was only in reading the D B Tubbs book that I found an explanation. The film format indicated is indeed wrong but the sticker is there as a reminder to buy the wider diameter<b> size B 120 roll</b> which the frame counter had been calibrated to use. The narrower diameter <b>BM</b> film unwound at a different rate and would cause unevenness in the spacing of the frames.<br>

Steve</p>

<p>B1 = 6x6-film = 117-film with markings on the paper back for 6x6. It took six 6x6 shots on one roll.</p>

<p>B2 = 6x9-film = 120-film. In the beginning 120-film had only markings on the backing paper for 6x9. On half-frame kameras (6x4,5) you had two red windows for the 6x9 markings. Back then, 6x6 cameras had to have a mechanical counter if they used 120-film, because the paper backing lacked markings for 6x6.</p>

<p>Rolleis from this early period had a red window on the bottom for lining up the (1) from the 6x9 markings, and then you started the mechanical counter. The original Rolleiflex had a red window on the back for the 6x6 markings, but it used B1 (117) film, and didn't have a mechanical counter.</p>

<p>Early Rolleiflex Standard cameras had two red windows. One on the back for B1 6x6, and one on the bottom for B2 6x9. You then loaded the film and wound until the (1) lined up in the correct red window, and engaged the mechanical counter.</p>

<p>Here's the two red windows on an early Rolleiflex Standard.</p>

<p>With B1 6x6-film (Kodak designation 117) you got six 6x6 shots on one roll.</p>

<p>With B2 6x9-film (Kodak designation 120) you got twelve 6x6 on one roll.</p>

<p>Later, when 120-films started to have the 6x6 markings printed on the backing paper, it didn't matter which of the red windows you used.</p>

<p>By the way, the 117-spool was different, like a mix of 120 and 620. If you cut or grind the flanges on a 120-spool to the same diameter as on a 620-spool, what you got then is a 117-spool. :-)</p><div></div>

<p>Very interesting piece of history J.P., thank you for the information.</p>

<p>B2 film with markings 8 frames for 6x9 were probably all that was available when 6x4.5 cameras came out. Hence, the two red windows. 1 & 1, 2&2, then so forth to yield a total 16 frames.</p>

<p>In addition to the extra exposures per roll, their pocketability must have been a big plus.</p>

<p>Those l'il 645 folders are sure handy... and cute, too. I kinda miss my Ensign Selfix ; it was very pocketable. The Ikontas seem more common here in the States. I'll have to look for one myself sometime soon.</p>

<p>I bought my little Zeiss 6X4.5 at a garage sale. She said it was her father's camera and it had an unfinished roll of film in it. I gave the film back to her telling her that 120 could be processed locally and it may have a treasure hidden in the exposures. Anyway, I was amazed at the quality of the pix it produced! It came with the proper lens hood and I think one should always be used with these little gems.<br>

I have several (hundreds?) of old cameras that don't get enough exercise and I wonder how many will end up at an estate sale when my daughters are cleaning out "Daddy's old junk". I'm slowly getting it down to a foot locker or two and applying the proceeds to my credit card debt. I just can't seem to quit buying old 120 folders and VPKs!<br>

I'm enjoying photography more now in my 60s than I ever did when it paid my bills and raised my family. Digital is for putting pix on line (period).</p>