Developing Reversal B/W for Super8

<p>Hi me again for a stupid question..<br /><br />Ive heard people developing their super8 DIY with Kodak D-76, but my film is Reversal so Im assumming d76 brings it to a negative form- if I want it as a true reversal form what developer is needed? i live by toronto if you guys/girls have any suggestions where to get it to- I dont like ordering online..<br /><br />Question as well- do the same steps apply from negative developing to reversal developing.<br />Developer. stop. fixer.<br /><br />another concern is what to develop in, I got a 35mm tank - will that work if i Just roll the film up in it? Or is there a super8mm reel and tank I should be using. </p>

<p>there is a larger tank(morse) that will hold either 100 feet of 35mm or 16 mm<br>

if the super 8 film is.<br>

this tank has 2 metal spools ( not reels) and the film is cranked back and forth.</p>

<p>the spools are adjustable 35mm or 16mm.16mm wide --<br>

If super 8 is 16mm wide, you will have to slit lengthwise after development.<br>

I am not sure, I think FUJI made "single 8": that was 8 mm wide.<br>

the reversal process for B&W is similar to the color reversal process.<br>

it requires careful temperature and tiimg.<br>

If you developed the film as a negative, you would then have to find a way to PRINT it to create a positive.<br>

I do not think such a materiel exists for super 8.only 16mm & 35mm. The sprocket holes in super 8 are different.<br>

30 years ago there were companies that sold tanks. One was like a very wide and thin roll film tank.<br>

another was a drum ( think of the paddle wheel on a streamside wheel for a grain mill<br>

or an old riverboat ship "paddle wheel steamer"<br>

but the reel was plastic and fit over a 8 x 10 tray and was used in a darkroom.<br>

another scheme was a flat sheet of rigid plastic that had square notches. the film was wound on the sheet and<br>

used in an 8 x 10 tray . ( sort of like a very coarse doublesided comb)<br>

all these can be improvised.. Everything except the first tank has to be done in total darkness.<br>

there are on-line forums for super 8 moviemakers<br>

and I am sure some have formulas and suggestions as how to develop this film.<br>

After the first development, the development has to be stopped, the developed part must be removed, the film has to be re-exposed by a light or chemically, and the remaining silver has to be developed, this creates the positive image.it is a 4-5-6step process. Back in the early days, sometimes the movie film was just dropped in a pail and swished around. no reall and a chance of scratching.<br>

but search for forunms where folks that do this can advise you better.<br>

there are or were films that, with "normal" development, like a negative or a print. yielded a positive with develop/wash fix<br>

but these film are only available in sheets not in strips and they were very slow, too slow for use in a camera.<br>

this films were used to make " duplicate negatives" but could be used to make " duplicate positives"<br>

but this was done in the darkroom.</p>

 

<p>The reversal process has a few extra steps -- specifically a bleach step, a clearing bath, a re-exposure step, and a second development step. Recommend that you Google for more details. You will have to home-mix most of the solutions. Many of the raw materials are available locally in Toronto, but others are not.</p>

<p>Super 8 film is a strip of film with sprocket holes on just one side that is 8mm wide. Regular 8mm film is 16mm film that has twice as many holes as 16mm film, the film is removed from the camera and flipped and sent back through the camera because it only exposes half the width of the film. After developing the film is then split in half and glued together. The 25' film is now 50' long. I have been looking into making my own 8mm film from stock 100' roll of 35mm film. Still thinking about how to reperforate the fim in the dark. Any ideas anyone??</p>

<p>way back when<br>

some companies "reperforated "16 mm film stock to make "double 8"<br>

16mm wide but with twice as many perforations,<br>

Unless the film was reperforated carefully, or should I say had the second set of perforations done perfectly,<br>

the movie would jump up and down on the screen and could be " unviewable"<br>

At best, even with my Nikkor 12,5mm lens, 8mm was not thgat sharp.<br>

so it is not a good idea to buy " reperfed" film.<br>

possibly starting with totally unperforated film, would work better.<br>

but I think the machine would be expensive.</p>

<p>google is your friend<br>

http://www.super8camera.com/processing.php</p>

<p>Hi Andrew. There are vendors on eBay from a variety of shops that can sell you KODAK D-76. You can only use D-76 if you want your B&W Super 8mm processed as a nice continous tone NEGATIVE image. That would render it fine for transfer to video/digital, or for positive printing (which is now nearly extinct and costly to consider).<br>

I'm cross listing this from your other posting on D-76 so some duplicity here. To get the film out of the Super 8 cartridge: you can do either method:<br>

[1]. REMOVAL from the gate: Not recommended...but that is how KODAK and other labs did it. First rotate the core counterclockwise until you hear it click. The ratchet is now broken, so you can pull the film out from the gate. HOWEVER, you'll need to keep the Pressure Plate depressed and hold the cartridge at a sharp angle so the film can be pulled out without dragging it over the cartridge wall edge, thus scratching it.<br>

[2]. Breaking open the Super 8 Cartridge: You first want to wind all the film into the cartridge by rotating the core clockwise until the film is fully inside. Then in the dark of course, break open the core side of the cartridge by using a bottle cap opener along the edges. Once you get it started at one point, carefully peel back the back of the cartridge and you'll be able to drop out the film on the core. You'll need to fashion up your own core holder so you can transfer the film to a 50ft reel so you can work with it for loading in a film processing tank. Keep a pair of pliers with you, in case the cartridge is stubborn, then you can just grab the lip of the backside and peel it back if you have problems with the bottle opener. Some advocate using a hammer to smash the cartridge....don't do it...you risk damaging your film or hurting yourself in the dark if you're not careful enough. And that's the understatement.<br>

NOTE: Regarding buying the things you need online....that's the new modern way and frankly it's quite easy. I'm old school, but for some things, there's no other way. I have been able to purchase equipment items for my lab here from all over the world via eBay. Get what you can locally if possible, but don't let online or telephone ordering keep you from what you need to do.<br>

So, to correctly REVERSAL process the film, you will need to get the correct chemicals. In a nutshell, the processing outline is as follows:<br />[1]. First Developer (a good high contrast type) KODAK D-19 is fine. The formula calls for addition of a small amount of silver solvent but it will work fine in most cases mixed straight. Time for film on Spiral Reels is 6 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[2]. First Wash - a good thorough wash for 2 to 5 minutes, depends on your equipment. Do NOT use Stop Bath.<br />[3]. Bleach - The original formula calls for a Bleach solution made up of Potassium Dichromate, Sulfuric Acid and Water. KODAK's new formula is milder, and you can also mix up to formula a Permaganate Bleach. Time for film on Spiral Reels is 1 - 2 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[4]. Second Wash - Normally the formula calls for going directly to the Clearing Bath....but....from many years of experience in manual film processing, I recommend using a wash step here as it will also save wear down on your Clearing Bath. Time for film on Spiral Reels is 1 - 2 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[5]. Clearing Bath - to formula using Water and Sodium Sulfite (NOT Sulfide!). LIGHTS can be turned on or film exposed to light after 1 minute in the Clearing Bath. Actually, it can be done after 1 minute in the Bleach, but KODAK recommends waiting until after a minute in the Clearing Bath to avoid the potential of "veiled highlights". Time for film on Spiral Reels is 2 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[6]. RE-EXPOSURE STAGE: Unless using chemical flashing for your re-exposure stage, use light. KODAK has always recommended using light over chemical flashing or you can mix to formula a Fogging Developer if you want which basically does chemical flashing at the same time as development. EXPOSE film at all angles and from both sides by moving your reel near light source for 30 seconds per side using a 60 watt to 150 watt light source or equivalent at least 18 inches to 3 feet from film. Be SAFE!<br />[7]. Third Wash/Rinse - While not in the outline, I also find that this is just some added insurance to avoid any contamination in the ReDeveloper. Time for film on Spiral Reels is 1 - 2 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[8]. RE-DEVELOPER - Here you have some options depending on what effect or look you'd like to your film. Some have used Dektol Paper Developer and many other types. But KODAK calls for a similar developer such as D-19 for normal processing and density. Time for film on Spiral Reels is 6 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />NOTE: IF you would like a SEPIA (nice rich brown tone) to your image, you can mix up T-19 which is simply a Water and Sodium Sulfide solution (but must be careful due to strong and dangerous sulfide odor/gas.....smells of rotten eggs, so use LOTS of ventilation). T-19 requires NO Re-Exposure, as it converts the remaining silver halides to brown metallic silver without light (so this works great if using a Rewind Tank or other system where reversal exposure is inconvenient). Time for film on Spiral Reels is 2 - 5 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[9]. WASH - this can be a running or changing water wash, or you can also use ACID STOP BATH (which will minimize wear on your Fixer). Time for film on Spiral Reels is 1 - 2 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[10]. FIXER - Use a good Rapid Fixer with Hardener. Typically Time for film on Spiral Reels is 5 - 8 minutes at 68 F to 70 F<br />[11]. FINAL WASH - Time for film on Spiral Reels is 15 to 30 minutes at 68 F to 70 F NOTE: To shorten wash times, use Hypo Clearing Agent (follow instructional outline for use).<br />[12]. WETTING/DRYING AGENT - Such as KODAK's Photo Flo or similar to aid in even spot free drying of film on your Film Drying Rack (which you'd have to build yourself or loop film emulsion outward on a long strung vinyl clothesline in a dustfree room, such as a bathroom).<br />[13]. FINISHING - To finish film after dry, you will want to properly Leader the film, at least 3 feet Header Leader and 2 feet Trailing Leader. Then clean & lubricate the film using a movie film cleaning solution with lubricant. Once done, rewind the film snuggly and evenly upon a 50ft reel and put a rubberband around the outside of the film. I recommend allowing it to sit this way at least overnight before you view it or transfer it....but you can to that anytime. I recommend waiting a day since the film will have curve areas from where it was looped around the Drying Rack or other hanging methods and being tightly wound will help reshape it. Otherwise, you may notice some slight out-of-focus images each time a 'bump' passes.<br />Chemistry can be purchased from vendors or private sellers on eBay, from major Camera Supply Shops, and from Photographer's Formulary in Montana. Film processing tanks & reels can be found often on eBay, with the russian made LOMO tanks being the easiest to locate. These tanks can do 2 rolls of Super 8mm at a time, but I recommend setting it up for doing just a single roll until you get the hang of it. Hopefully this helps you out. <br />Best regards, Martin W. Baumgarten - P.P.S.</p>