Dangerous?

<p>I am feeling very stupid... I was told it was okay to sometimes put the chemicals down the drain - so I put them down my bath, and there is no window in my bathroom... and the developer, or the stop (the only two I used to test a roll) I suspect the developer, Ilford, reeks, and I'm scared it's dangerous to breathe this in!</p>

<p>I have put the shower on for quite a while to rinse it away down the drain, and it seems to be gone, but the smell is lingering, I have opened windows around the house.</p>

<p>Well, the smell might be lingering, but you will live!<br>

It's certainly better to not throw it down the drain and it's also better to not breath it in, but it is not that bad if you would smell it a few times. Give it one or two times using the shower andit is gone.</p>

<p>I find the developer doesn't emit odors, especially compared to the stop bath. </p>

<p>I wouldn't worry.</p>

<p>Perhaps something in the drain, soap, hair, bacteria, spit, whatever got excited and said, "I'm gonna stink for you!" Maybe clean the shower drain? Or dump the stuff down the sink? </p>

<p>I'm just worried that it will make us ill. I'm also slightly worried about absorbing it through skin, quite a bit spilt over my hand, I tried to wash it straight away. Can that do anything?</p>

<p>No danger there!<br>

You off course shouldn't bath in it. But some over your hand or a bit of smell is part of the darkroom experience. Don't worry that much about it. I had it over my hand often, putting the liquids in bigger containers to bring it away. Just wash the hand with soap, no issue.</p>

<p>Oh thank you, Dennis. I've never done it on my own before... only at university.</p>

<p>While you most likely have nothing to worry about, not all chemicals are the same and some can cause problems, though usually not typical developers and fixers. I would take the time to look up the MSDS's for the chemicals you are using and skim through them.</p>

<p>You can also always pick up a box of nitrile gloves for $4 and where them while developing if you are concerned.</p>

<p>If you want to do some fun experiments, have a look at the following fun ways of experimenting with developing your film:<br>

Developing with coffee or Vitamin C: http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/caffenol.php<br>

Have a look on the forums of photo.net. There has been a lot of discussion on this one. Red wine and washing soda is good fun as well...</p>

 

<p>Thanks Tim - I looked them up for the Ilfostop and Ilford Microphen. They seemed okay, from what I can see...</p>

<p >Beth,</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Photo chemicals are mainly water. The developer solution contains a mild alkaline that sets the pH high. The developer itself is a derivative of benzene. The other constituents are in trace amounts. The major harm, photo waste like human waste, has an oxygen demand. As it travels along the sewer it absorbs oxygen. So you added the demand of about one person visiting and using your bathroom. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The stop bath is vinegar about the same strength as table vinegar. The fixer is also vinegar plus a salt of sodium or ammonium. No worry its main effect is also oxygen demand. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Now the municipalities don’t like sliver. A trace will be found in spent fixer. They don’t like it because it is a heavy metal and heavy metals are presumed to be toxic. The toxicity of heavy metals cannot be disputed however the silver, in this case readily converts to silver sulfide. This happens after the stuff travels about a kilometer. If it does not convert in the sewer it will be converted in the treatment plant. The good news is silver sulfide is inert. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >As to you and your family’s health, the main cause of distress is contact dermatitis. A rash some people surfer that comes from constituents of the developer. Color developer is most likely to cause. Once affected, you will unlikely need to stay away forever. Happily this is infrequent. </p>

<p>Beth, there are several discussions in the photo.net archives related to safety and health issues involving the b&w darkroom. Search the term "MSDS" using the photo.net search function for this forum and you'll find several. Also, all of the major manufacturers and suppliers of b&w darkroom materials provide Material Safety Data Sheets and other safety and health information, so there's no need to guess or speculate about the potential risks.</p>

<p>You write, "it reeks". You know what both the developer and the stop bath smell like; you have used both. Does the odor from the drain smell like either developer or stop bath? If not, take a very small quantity of developer and stop and mix them together - preferably outdoors and wearing eye protection. Does it give off the same odor?</p>

<p>If not, the problem is the interaction of the chemicals and the "goop" in the trap of your shower. The trap is that "U" shaped piece of pipe the hold some water and keeps sewer gas from coming up the drain and driving you from your house. I will not go into what this "goop" is other than to suggest hair, used bath products, etc. First, rinse the drain thoroughly; let the water run for 15 minutes or so. If that does not work, then try some drain cleaner to remove the "goop".</p>

<p>You do not say what developer you used, but here is a link to the Ilford MSDS sheets: <a href="http://www.ilfordphoto.com/healthandsafety/datasheet.asp?n=2">http://www.ilfordphoto.com/healthandsafety/datasheet.asp?n=2</a></p>

<p> </p>

<p>Go here to get Kodak's publication on safely disposing of chemicals down the drain, etc.<br>

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/environment/kes/pubs/pdfs/j300.pdf<br>

You will find that dumping conventional stop, fix and developer into the city sewer is not dangerous to you or the environment (with a bit of a controversy about the dissolved silver in the fix...).</p>

<p>As long as you rinse completely, and are not mixing the darkroom chemicals with other bathroom/cleaning chemicals (especially, do not mix any chemicals with chlorine bleach!), you should not have any problems. It's hard to determine what smell you actually experienced; stop and developer together often smell a bit, usually of acetic acid (the stop). Other smells are possible, but if you just had a commercial Ilford developer and stop, nothing dangerous will come of them. Maybe you are being a bit oversensitive to smells in your bathroom due to your concerns?</p>

<p>Best,</p>

<p>Doremus Scudder</p>

<p>BTW, it is not stupid to put chemicals down the drain, that is what most of us do who are on city sewer systems. The no-nos would be selenium toner and large quantities of used fixer. (I replenish and reuse my selenium toners and take my fixer from printing sessions to the local processing lab for silver recovery. Many take theirs to the hazmat collection point in their area). Do some searching here and elsewhere about safe disposal of photo chemicals.j Bottom line, developer and stop are OK to dispose of down the drain.</p>

<p >The fixer is mainly water plus a shot of one of following: ammonium thiosulfate if rapid fixer or sodium thiosulfate if standard fixer. Now these chemicals are commonly used by tropical fish enthusiasts. One or two drops added to a gallon of city water instantly causes dissolved chlorine to dissipate. Once treated the susceptible fish live happily. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Municipal water is acid water. It is made acid so that it will not support the growth of microorganisms. The chlorination of municipal water systems is one of history’s great advances in public health. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Now the municipal sewer treatment system can only treat and release. They must release because the stuff keeps coming. The job of the treatment plant is to preserve the public health. Therefore the last stage before release is chlorination to destroy harmful microorganisms. Each gallon of sewerage requires a specific amount of chlorine gas in solution. Now fixer, fresh or spent, adds chlorine demand. It causes some of the chlorine to dissipate; thus the city must use more to counter photo darkroom enthusiasts who discharge spent chemicals.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >This is the chief harm of photo chemical disposal. </p>

<p><del>A friend of mine always dumps 200ml of bleach down the drain after the chemicals, but the chemicals should be the developer first, then stop, then fix.</del></p>

<hr>

<i>This is a very unsafe practice.</i>

<blockquote><p>"A friend of mine always dumps 200ml of bleach down the drain after the chemicals..."</p></blockquote>

<p>Not a good idea. Has your friend checked to find out whether the bleach will produce potentially dangerous interactions with other chemicals? It's an unnecessary step and potentially risky unless preceded by a thorough flushing of the pipes with plain water.</p>

<p>As I wrote earlier, always check with the manufacturers for their recommendations for handling and disposal. Believe it or not, manufacturers like Kodak and Ilford do have some expertise in these matters. They have experts to help ensure compliance with all applicable safety and health and environmental regulations, both domestic and international.</p>

<p>I used to believe that B&W darkroom chemicals were harmless until I noticed some pretty obvious and unwanted side affects after a daylong session in my unventilated darkroom. Probably a combination of carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide poisoning from the fixer. I'm talking about, transitory depression, headaches. The people who take this seriously and take proper precautions such as good ventilation are the smarter amongst us.</p>

Bleach down the drain after acid stop and fixer is a BAD idea, liberates chlorine gas. My darkroom door and wall have vents to prevent build up of anything toxic in the air, I do my sulfide toning in a drum on a motor base in my laundry room, selenium toning in a tray in the darkroom (liberates small amounts of ammonia, a lung irritant at these dilutions but not toxic) with the darkroom door open and the fan on.