Buying a used M8 or M8.2

<p>I'm considering buying a used M8 or M8.2, so have 2 questions of others who have done the same and own either camera.<br>

1. I've noticed that M8 used prices for bodies in excellent condition are relatively low (in Leica M terms that is) and quite plentiful on the used camera market - is there any specific reason for this other than the fact digital cameras in general do not hold value well?<br>

2. Are there any traps to be aware of - weaknesses or adverse performance traits that arise that may cause a relatively high number of these cameras to be on the used market? For example might there be issues of number of actuations?<br>

I'm a happy M7 owner and hope to be an equally happy M8 owner.<br>

Thanks for sharing your experiences.<br>

Simon.</p>

<p>Simon, first off, get an M8.2. All or most of the bugs should be out of it. With the first version it's a crap shoot. Next, check the sensor. A bad sensor means bad pix. Try and get some sort of warranty with it. </p>

<p>That is about all I can suggest at the moment. </p>

<p>Oh yes, get the camera from a reputable dealer. </p>

<p>And one more thing. Don't buy it sight unseen. See it, use it. </p>

<p>Okay, that's all for now.</p>

<p>Simon,<br /> I was seriously considering purchasing a used Leica M8.2 myself very recently and hesitated for the exact same reason as you. After I dug around on the internet and read more and more reviews and field reports I started thinking this isn't the camera for me (though I love Leica).<br>

Yes, a lot of problems are fixed in M8.2, but you'll still need to buy $150 filters for your lenses (I assume the used cameras won't come with filters), and there are still little issues with the M8.2 (which are fixed in the M9) that haven't been handled. No matter what those many glowing reviews of the M8/8.2 said, it seems a lot of people didn't agree in the long run which is why there are plenty of used M8 and M8.2s on ebay now.</p>

<p>In contrast, the M9 is spectacular, and I'm guessing this also a big reason the M8.2 has dropped in price.</p>

<p>Personally, I decided to continue to use my M7 and wait for the M9 to be more affordable.</p>

<p>Simon, I agree with Alex. If you buy a M8, there is a risk of getting one of the earlier bodies that had issues. It is hard to tell by the serial number or by internet photographs. For M8: See it, feel it, examine it, test it, then decide. For M8.2: They are usually good, the risk is minimal.</p>

<p>If you do get the M8, get it from a legitimate source (Leica authorized dealer) and make sure it comes with a warranty. That's what I did, and even though I never had any issues with my two M8's, I didn't lose sleep over them.</p>

<p>I have the M8 and prefer the maximum 1/8000 speed which enables the use of lenses wide open in daylight. For the M8.2 the max speed is 1/4000. Frankly, I didn't see the point of spending $2000 to upgrade the camera with so-called upgrades that should not have cost that much.</p>

<p>People say the M9 is spectacular, but it is a case of $7000 vs. $3000. For that difference it had better be spectacular (in the camera world), as it is the smallest full fame digital. Even if I had the money, I cannot justify the M9, since the M8 photos are spectacular.</p>

<p>A lot of people who are selling their M8 and M8.2 cameras are selling on emotion rather than reason. The full frame digital is the holy grail for them. For pros it is a different story, as they make money with the camera. There is a famous photographer (writes on photo.net) who sold his Nikon D3X (after owning it for a few weeks) and all his Nikon and Zeiss lenses once he used the M9, and is able to use the Leica glass the way it was originally intended. The M9 is that good.</p>

<p>"With the first version it's a crap shoot."</p>

<p>True perhaps for some of the initial year's production, but not so for later models. Mine is in the 3,201,3xx lot and I have had absolutely zero problems with it. The problems may have been fixed well before that serial number set.</p>

<p>The 8.2 is going to cost you quite a bit more than the 2500 to 3000$ for a mint or near mint M8 body and the picture quality will be the same. In fact, the M8 and M8.2 are not very different than the M9 (same sensor technology, just a bit larger on the M9), so you have to wonder if it is worth another $4000 to $4500 to get an M9 unless you make very big pix. I think I would wait until the M9 is upgraded by a better sensor (M10 at 25-30 MP?, maybe in 2 to 4 years from now).</p>

<p>Only downside with the M8 for me (unless I need really big enlargements) is the crop factor, and the cost of fast lenses that will provide equivalent 21mm full frame performance (there are no such f2 or faster 16mm lenses). Those are available at present for the full frame M9 (at $5000 per) and I can accept instead a Cosina 12 or 15mm lens of slow speed for the ultrawide use on the M8 (the excellent 12mm gives a 16mm full frame equivalent point of view).</p>

<p>The M8 is a bargain, and you don't need to even be a crap-shooter (sic!).</p>

<p>I have wondered which version I have of the M8. I bought it used a year ago. It has been trouble free. The serial number is in the 3,104,5xx series.<br>

Where do I go to find out?</p>

<p>I have owned 3 M8's, none with issues. My first M8 was one of the first cameras, and I definitely feel the later model M8s seem deliver better images. So, with the M8, I would only purchase a newer, later model. <br>

I like the 1/8000 shutter speed and would miss that when shooting my fast lenses outdoors. The getdpi forum has many leicaphiles who sell very nice, very well cared for M8s at reasonable prices (around 2 grand lately). I would buy used from that sourse. </p>

<p>Many thanks gentlemen for your comprehensive an sensible comments.<br>

I suppose in summary, collectively, you're saying that (and I totally agree) buying a used M8 or M8.2, for peace of mind as well as warranty recourse, is best done through a reputable dealer after inspecting and shooting with it. My only exception to that would be if I were buying from someone I know and trust.<br>

Then there is the issue about M8 Vs M8.2 and what you get for the extra dollars. Well I suppose that will come down to what is on offer and the actual comparative price.<br>

But your point about early M8s and how much of any issues were or were not addressed over time; and if /what were addressed by the M8.2 (that were not addressed in the later M8s) is very valid, so I will look into that.<br>

Print size is not an issue for me. When I want larger prints I always shoot Hasselblad 6x6.<br>

Today I called a very reputable used Leica (and a few other top end cameras in MF and LF) and asked him (I only remembered him this afternoon). He offered similar advice to your general comments - explaining values and risks etc.. He did add that he has a very fussy pro LF customer who decided to buy an M8 used because he just felt they represented good value for money on the used market - he realised that required him to buy the f2 28mm lens to get his preferred 35mm equivalent angle of view. The outcome is that he is delighted with the image quality.<br>

So I will take your advice about cautions; have patience to find an "affordable" M8.2 (as its likely to hold better value anyway as well as have some things ironed out somewhat at least) and test a demo unit to be sure I know what to expect of them (shoot some images I can replicate with a used camera I am negotiating later).<br>

Your comments about those who so readilly dumped M8 and M8.2 cameras to get the "Holy Grail" stand to reason and I suppose the rest of the lower prices simply reflects the rest of the digital camera market.<br>

The comment about GetDPI is very valid Rob - I recently bought a well known member's Hasselblad CFi Planar 100mm lens - better than he promised! But I know him and his excellent reputation.<br>

Of course in the meantime like Sasi, my M7 remains cherished! In fact I don't think I could bring myself to part with it anyway.<br>

TWO QUESTIONS PLEASE:<br>

1. A question for those among you who have owned more than 1 M8 - what caused you to do that (other than the need or desire to have a second body in your kit)?<br>

2. Of the M8 or M8.2 bodies you have owned, does anyone have an opinion of how well the black bodies resist wear versus the silver bodies?<br>

When I ordered my M7, I decided on silver because I liked the "traditional" look; I also prefer the silver lenses due to the fact the silver coating is applied to brass rather than alloy - I like the weight and strength - just a personal thing. It also looks fine with larger focal length lenses in black.<br>

Thanks again.</p>

 

<p>I "buy and try" many different camera systems. As such, I bought, sold, bought, sold and finally bought again with the M8, as the camera is so good that I kept coming back. By the wayside went the 5D, D300, 5D2, and D700. I now use the M8 on a daily basis (and am happy enough with the M8 that I am going to hold off on the M9). For larger prints, for cropping, and for my flash work, I use the Sony a850 with Zeiss lenses. The two systems complement each other wonderfully. I enjoy using the M8 and love the look of the prints. The Sony is the first digital slr that I have owned that also gives a very film-like look (similar to the M8). And the DR of the Sony at low ISO is fantastic!<br>

My first M8 was black, my second and third were/are silver. The silver rocks!</p>

<p>Thanks Rob.<br>

Also Vic thanks for your PM with other links for information.</p>

<p>The M9 has only been recently introduced, and it's full impact on the M8 market is yet to be felt. It's very likely that prices on the M8 will fall quite a bit more in the near future. It might be worth your while to wait 6 or so months (if you can live without one for that long), before you spend your money.</p>