Shutter noise of Bessa R2/3/4 vs Leica M ?

Does somebody ever recorded the shutter-noise of a Bessa Rxxx versus a Leica Mxxx ?

 

I'm thinking of getting a Bessa R2 or R3, but I heard that they are noisier than the Leica M...

 

...as I intend to use this camera in very quiet environments, such as theatres, school classes, etc..., the noise

of the shutter is a very important part in my desision ! ...the PRICE of the camera is another one, of course !?!

 

If you have both cameras, could you be kind enough to RECORD their shutter noise and upload it somewhere or send

it directly to me by e-mail ?

 

TIA,

J-P.

The short answer is "Forget it." If you want quiet, then you have to get an M. It's that simple. The Rs are noisy, not getting around it. It's too bad. Or, you could save yourself some money and get an old OM-1 or OM-2. They are as nice or nicer than a Leica M. Huge finder, quiet shutter, compact, lightweight.

 

Anyway, this is from an owner of about 4 different M cameras, and about 2 different R cameras, the R3A, the R2A. I am speaking from experience.

<p> The Bessa is much louder, which is one of the reasons I got rid of it. The OM SLRs (I own 8), while quiet for an SLR, are louder than an M-series. However, anything with a leaf shutter is quieter than a Leica M. For example, a Canonet or an Olympus RF is quieter (barely audible when standing next to the user) and cheaper. However, the build quality is lower, rf baseline smaller, the ergonomics clunkier, and one has to deal with a fixed (non-Leitz) lens. Perfectly usable for ultra-quiet environments, and with a hotshoe, most have something Ms don't: A decent synch speed, usually 1/500th.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I'll agree my M4 is much quieter by far than my Bessa R2. But with a leather half case, and a sturdy lens aboard. The Bessa muffles down quite a lot.</p>

<p>Thanks guys for the answers ! ..so it seems that everydody agrees on the fact that the Bessas are noisier than the Leicas... too bad... Now let's complicate the question: how about other RF cameras, like Contax G1/2 and Zeiss Ikon compared to the Leicas ? Same level of noise ? TIA in advance for your opinions ! (I'm trying all I can to avoid spending a fortune on a Leica body, but I'm affraid it will be the only soltion in the end !). Cheers, J-P.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>While they aren't rangefinders, Rollieflexes have leaf shutters and are very quiet. Nice big, sharp negs also.</p>

<p>The only systematic investigation of camera shutter noise (not easy to measure and compare in an entirely rigorous and meaningful manner) was in one of the two excellent French magazines about 5 or so years ago (either "Chasseur d'Images" or "Réponses Photo").</p>

<p>I will try to find it (The tests added a panel of 5 pro photographer listeners, to complement the acoustic measurements). If I remember correctly, Leica M was considerably quieter than the Bessas (otherwise very fine cameras, it depends on your priorities) and somewhat quieter than the Zeiss Ikon RF (which has a different sound pattern). Worst of all, I think, was the Mamiya RZ SLR camera. The sound patterns also differed amongst most cameras tested, whether 35mm RF and SLR or MF cameras. I think one or two of the 35mm SLRs had a noise level not much louder (if at all) than the Leica M. I know, personally, that one of my quietist cameras is the Mamiya 6 (quieter than my Leica M), which with 75mm f3.5 lens often sells for something like 8 or $900 in decent condition.</p>

<p>One of the less expensive but excellent used M bodies (no meter) is the M4-2 or M4-P. Depending upon what you want to do and if you don't need a metered body, you might couple a Leica screw mount body like the III-f (maybe 400 $ in near mint or very clean condition) with an excellent modern fast V-C lens like the 28mm f2, or Nokton 50mm f1.5, with a VC viewfinder. A slower combination in use, perhaps, but a very quiet shutter.</p>

<p>Thank you John and Arthur ! Arthur, if ever you can find the article you wrote about, in "Chasseur d'images" or " Réponses photo", Iwould be more than grateful !! Best regards, J-P.</p>

<p>While the Bessa R cameras are certainly louder than the Leicas, they aren't that bad. It's a more metallic sound though, and as stated, if you put one in a half case it's quiet enough. For years and years I complained about the noisy mirror slap on my Leica R-5 to anyone and everyone. Then one day I handed the camera to my wife so she could take a shot. Surprise! I didn't even notice the shutter sound. It's only apparent when you have the camera pressed up to your face. Get a few feet away and you don't hear it.</p>

One other factor is the way the noise sounds. It's not so much how loud or quiet it is as the actual sound itself. The R cameras make a really annoying tinny sounding click, there are many Japanese SLRs that do this, some Nikons, and others.

 

<p>I would consider the sound a camera makes when being fired to be an ergonomic issue. It really surprises me how much the Japanese manufacturers completely neglect this issue. Pick up any Pentax and almost every Olympus DLSR and you will see what I mean.

 

<p>I live in Japan, and it never ceases to amaze me the grating sounds that Japanese put up with, without batting an eyelid. The television shows are a constant barrage of sounds like you would hear from a pinball machine, not mention Pachinko parlors, black trucks manned by fascists that trawl the streets blasting out violent ugly messages of hate. Well, you get the picture.

 

<p>So, I think it simply does not occur to over conditioned, overridden engineers at these companies to consider the aesthetics of the sound of a shutter being fired.

 

<p>Maitani, the creator of the OM system was very sensitive to this factor, and you can see in the OM1 and OM2 the results. It is one of the quietest softest shutters ever made. I honestly think it is arrogance on the side of the actual manufacturers that leads them to overlook this important point. The guy that runs Cosina is obviously extremely capable, and has a great line of lenses and the cameras are nice, but he just dropped the ball, thinking he had nothing to learn from anyone, when it came to the shutter of his RF cameras. He could have fitted the Bessas with cloth shutters and damped down the cameras, but he figured it was not important..

 

<p>By the way, of the EOS cameras, the nicest sounding shutter on any of their film cameras is on the Elan 7, which is not top of the line. The 1 series film cameras have shutters that sound like jack hammers.

<p>I expect that Cosina certainly could <strong>not</strong> have put a cloth shutter in their R-series cameras at the cost target they set. The shutter in this type of camera is likely almost identical to the shutter in one of the Cosina-built SLRs (like the Nikon FM-10), except that the mirror has been replaced by an extra front curtain.</p>

<p>If you can find a shop that sells the Nikon FM-10, look at it in the store. Its shutter sounds a lot like the R2 shutter.</p>

 

<p>the contax g1/g2 cameras are also not the best choice if quietness is a factor. their auto focus is noisy. the konica hexar af is a very quiet camera and has a wonderful (but fixed) 35mmf2 lens.</p>

<p>I'm first and foremost a Nikon guy, both film and digital but I got my hands on mint Oly OM-1n and was fully impressed with the build quality, small size and quietness of this camera. It's the slr for Leica lovers. BTW it's one of the few cameras that I like better in chrome.</p>

<p>Every time I catch myself having an expensive M7 dream I pull out the OM1-n and convince myself I'll hold of for a while longer.</p>

<p><em>"The guy that runs Cosina is obviously extremely capable, and has a great line of lenses and the cameras are nice, but he just dropped the ball, thinking he had nothing to learn from anyone, when it came to the shutter of his RF cameras. He could have fitted the Bessas with cloth shutters and damped down the cameras, but he figured it was not important."</em><br>

-<br>

Sorry but thats a bit over the top dont you think? How can you possibly know what considerations he made when deciding to create the range? I would think he most likely chose a shutter type he was already using to keep them in the target price point and that the metal curtains would be more reliable with less holes burnt in them. The fact that the later cameras are quieter than the earlier ones would seem that noise has been taken into account. But lets get things into perspective, they are quieter than most SLR's still. The emphasis on noise is not a concern most people have so I think the most reasonable compromise has been reached. As someone has suggested above if noise is that much of a problem for you even Leicas arent really the best there is, any one of the Leaf Shutter ranegfinders like the Canon QL-17, Minolta 7sii , Olympus 35RD etc are the way to go.<br>

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