Medium Format Travel Camera

<p>Hi Folks,<br>

I wasn't sure which forum to put this in since I am deciding between several cameras, but figured this is a good one. <br>

I have been on the lookout for a good medium format camera film camera that I can take with me to my upcoming trip to France and Italy (leaving around Thanksgiving this year). I have considered a ton of choices and camera types (including the Rolleiflex and Yashicamats), but am unable to pull the trigger. <br>

I know that the extent of daylight hours and good lighting conditions might be limited around that time of the year, so I am looking for a camera that can handle relatively slow shutter speeds well. I am looking primarily at some street photography and landscapes. I thought a rangefinder might be an overall good fit for the kind of pictures I want to take under the conditions. I expect to be primarily shooting with TMAX400 or other ISO400 film. <br>

I have shot quite a bit with the only MF camera I currently own: a Pentax 645N and although I love that camera, I am not a huge fan of its relative bulk and the significant mirror slap that comes with every shot. <br>

The cameras I am currently considering are the Fuji series: the 690s (with the 90mm fixed lens) and the 645s and maybe the Mamiya 6. The Fujis are especially attractive for me because of their versatility, size and cost. The Mamiya 6 with the 50 and 75 mm lenses would be at the far far end of my budget, so not my top choice at the moment. <br>

The camera that has really caught my eye so far is the Fuji GA645ZI: it really seems to pack a punch and seems like a great bang for the buck ($500-$600 for a mint condition camera). I like the 690s as well because of the huge negative it offers, but the absence of light metering and the lack of zoom versatility is a bit of a bother for me. On the other hand, I am not a huge fan of the super slow 90mm on the 645ZI. <br>

I was hoping to get some opinions from all you folks here and some help making the final choice for me. <br>

Would appreciate all the advice.<br>

Thanks!<br>

Avi</p>

<p>Fuji GA645ZI sounds great but it is AF so you have to trust the camera to get the right thing in focus. I had a GA645 and sold it because the focus was unpredictable, especially close up.<br>

<br>

I also had a Fuji GW670III and it was an amazing camera. The lack of a light meter was really annoying but if you can live without one I would highly recommend any of the Fuji 6x7, 6x8 or 6x9 rangefinders.<br>

<br>

Mamiya 7 is probably the ultimate solution but they're not cheap.</p>

<p>I've done most of my traveling in the last 10 years with an Hasselblad, mostly digital with a CFV16 back. I have a nearly complete set of lenses, but if I had to pare it down, I would take a CF40, CF60 and CFE120 (Makro), and a good tripod (Gitzo #3 and an Arca B1 head). That about covers it for landscapes and cityscapes, with a little nature rolled into the mix. It all fits into a medium sized shoulder bag. Before that, I used it with film, mostly color negative Reala, with 50, 80 and 180 mm lenses.</p>

<p>I've looked closely at a Mamiya 7 rangefinder, 6x7 size. It is lightweight, fairly compact and the lenses are small with outstanding quality. If you are set on using film and with to get the best possible image quality, the Mamiya 7 is worth your consideration.</p>

<p>Avi,<br>

If you are an experienced photographer, which I sense you are, I would recommend traveling with the compact and lightweight Hasselblad SWC/M (or more recent 903 or 905 versions) along with two A12 backs. The 38mm f/4.5 Biogon lens has a stellar reputation, is versatile and produces fabulous landscapes. Joseph</p>

<p>Jamie,<br>

The AF is a valid concern on the GA645 and might prompt me to stay away. <br>

Edward/Joseph, <br>

Thanks for the excellent suggestions. I did look into the Hasselblad SWCs and excellent though they are, they might end up being too expensive. For that cost, I think I can squeeze in a Mamiya 6 with 2 lenses. <br>

But you have given me food for thought. <br>

Thanks!<br>

Avi</p>

 

<p>A Fuji RF alternative might be the Plaubel Makina with fixed Nikkor lens from the 1980s. - No clue about pricing and I didn't handle them.<br>

I started with Agfa Super Isolette an awesome ultra compact but rather squinty RF folder like Retina II from the 1950s later I added a C330 with 135 & 55mm lenses. I recall handling the Mamiya 6 at a dealer but although it was more silent than and quite as appealing as Leicas I saw no personal reason to slave one off back then. Today I'd be scared by the spare parts supply situation and also worried if it would please me at the long end minimum focusing distance wise. - The mentioned Agfa takes wonderful pictures but focusing feels a wee bit too sticky and the RF patch too dim to permit street shooting ease known and expected from Leica. Asked prices seem high and at least it's Soviet clone Iskra is known for not lasting long enough (since it was popular among semi professionals over there).<br>

At my height I am best off with a WLF / chimney finder camera when I'm after people. - I'm aware that the big RF street shooting names (almost) kneel down all the time, but yes I am lazy. - My Mamiya weighs 2.1kg with the 250mm lens and chimney finder. the older C33 with 55mm and new WLF 150g more - the 55mm is light and vest pocketable though.<br>

My best suggestion to the OP: Consider sticking to what you have. - I am admittedly no mirror slap expert. I have a Pentacon 6 on the side, to use it's fast 120mm f2.8 lens in available light. - I shot it handheld or from a monopod (below 1/250sec) and did not notice alarming results. While there might be situations were stellar technique might give usable results with slow shutter speeds and RFs, I can assure that everything learned about really safe shutter speeds is true for them too and I really wish Leicas permitted dialing in 1/250 sec as required shutter speed for their auto everything setting. Again: I don't know the Pentax 645 from personal experience. I handled a 67 once and was scared by weight, minimum focusing distance and especially the mirror<em> noise. </em>I'd guess for land- and city- scapes SLR + monopod should be a better bet than handholding an RF. IMHO bulk doesn't matter, but I am going out with a daypack sized backpack weight? - How little are we talking about in the end? 500g gained by switching to RF? Are they worth the money? - How long will you enjoy shooting film?<br>

There is no magic bullet for street photography (yet). Any camera in your face will get noticed and low light usually demands a bit of time spent focusing. - Especially with MF.</p>

<p>A couple of points that others might disagree with</p>

<ul>

<li>If I were going on a trip of any importance I would wish it to be with a camera I'd had for a while, understood its nuances and the detail of how it worked, and where I'd had a couple of batches through it to be sure it was OK.</li>

<li>Building on that, if this were to be my main (or only?) camera on the trip I wouldn't want it to be an old and discontinued camera which might well prove difficult to put right after a breakdown. Even the Mamiya 6 was discontinued more than 20 years ago with no manufacturer support and issues on components that are not resolvable via normal channels. These cameras are fine as collectibles, may be useful at home where you may well have access to others if they fail, but to rely on for a trip? Well not for me. </li>

<li>Rangefinders are not infinitely flexible and have limitations and a learning curve. I wouldn't use a rangefinder for street because I can't focus a rangefinder instantly and I might well need longer/zoom lenses for that purpose. But if your "street" comprises head to waist portraits then a rangefinder (if you were used to it) such as a Mamiya 7 could be ideal and I recall that Jeff Spirer used to use one to good effect on that type of image. </li>

<li>For me, I'd want a slr to cope with the variable needs of landscapes and street in the same system. Problem with MF slrs though , outside of being a bit big and heavy is they tend to work best from a tripod, and that's not much fun for street work either. Specifically I'd suggest that Hand -held, a speed of 1/60 max would be necessary to give reasonably assured sharpness. Which may not be enough for you even with 400ISO film. Some people ( not all) can hold a rangefinder steady for longer shutter speeds, but then there are different prices to pay ( no long lenses, can't see dof ttl etc) .</li>

<li>So for me I'm pretty much back to a 35mm or FF dslr to get both these jobs done with one camera. Not ideal either but IMO the best compromise available. </li>

</ul>

<p>Excellent points all! <br>

I will be carrying 2 cameras: my "main" one is the Nikon D300 with the excellent 17-55 2.8 lens. The film camera is the "other" camera. I love working with film, which is the primary reason why I want to take one for this trip.<br>

Based on all that you have mentioned, I am almost tempted to simply stick to my existing setup (Pentax 645N) and use the money saved on better scanning apparatus and/or a better lens for the 645N. <br>

What are the thoughts on TLRs? I have used a YashicaMat (very recently) and the results stopped down are nothing short of excellent (inspite of my limited scanning capabilities: I use the 4990 with the OEM holder, which doesn't do a good job of holding the film flat), but I wouldn't use it wide open at all. <br>

Thanks all!<br>

Avi</p>

<p>I have a fuji 645zi and have never missed a focus because of the camera. if I missed it was my fault, not the fault of the camera. I like it for its ease of use, but the real slow lens over the years has been a concern if the light gets low. even with tmax 400 or provia 400, you still could be shooting wide open. that being said, the lens is fantastic and I have many 16x20 dardroom prints from that camera that are razor sharp.<br /> I also have a mamiya 6. it is the ultimate travel camera, but I hate the 6x6 square format. I really only use it for slide film as I have a 6x6 slide projector. you have never really seen a slide till you see a mamiya 6 slide really projected. awesome! I prefer the 6x7 format for B&W so I would love a mamiya 7, but hard to justify it since I have a pentax 67ii<br /> <br />the fuji gw69 is a nice camera. like the fuji 645's, the lens is great. it has no meter, so you have to carry something to meter with if you are like me and dont use sunny 16. only downside for me (im a happy snapper, so I shoot a lot) is only 8 shots per 120 roll, so i need to carry a few more rolls with me. not really a big deal. Im down to 8 220 rolls of plus-x and 30 220 rolls of velvia 50. 220 in that camera is great. <br /> <br />If possible, get your hands on whatever you are thinking of and give it a try. handling a camera is a ideal way to figure out if the camera will work for you. I like that i can fit my fuji 645 in the front pocket of a pair of cargo pants ( the extra pockets let me carry a lot of film) and then i can use a strap to hang my mam 6 over my shoulder.</p>

<p>John,<br>

How is the 645Zi @ 90mm wide open? As you mentioned, it is a super slow lens at 90mm and having to stop it down even further maybe a real deal-breaker. <br>

Thanks for the advice.<br>

Avi</p>

<p>Even though I own and use a very comprehensive Hasselblad V film and digital system, I took a week long trip with my wife to Chicago last week and only took a Leica M240 with a 35mm 1.4 and a Rolleiflex 2.8D. Both fit in a super small bag and honestly, I had a blast and know there are some banger shots in there. <br>

I did not find the 80mm 2.8 all that limiting either, just put more thought into the compositions and when I needed to be fast....man is a Rolleiflex fast.</p>

<p>For travel, #1 consideration is something dependable. Whatever you get, get it now to give yourself some time to try it out. Get familiar with it. test it to make sure all shutter speeds function properly.</p>

<p>#2 I would say to get a fixed-lens camera. -Or a camera with just one lens. You are already going to be switching between a digital and film body. Don't complicate it more with switching lenses.</p>

<p>I would recommend a rolleiflex with a tessar or xenar -or even a rolleicord (instead of a 2.8). Or a Yashica. If it is broken or stolen you are not out $1000. <br>

Another alternative is a mamiya 645 or fuji 645. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>For compact, walk-around/travel (MF) cameras, I've been having great luck with the Fuji/Voigtlander 667's (wide and normal versions). Stunning optics, quick, quiet operation, accurate built-in meters, truly Leica-like viewfinders (Mamyia 7's did not cut it here), very compact (Mamiya 7's didn't quite cut it here either)...which also do double-duty on a tripod for more carefully considered/controlled landscapes. Furthermore, I find that TMY-120 can truly "do it all" for all of my uses/needs with these cameras - for print quality that can rival that from 4x5 LF when enlarged to 16x20.</p>

 

<p>John,<br>

The Fuji 667s tick all the boxes, except for the one with the $$$ sign next to it. <br>

I am considering the TLRs now...they are far more affordable, especially the Yashica 124G. <br>

Thnks.<br>

Avi</p>

<p>http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Plaubel/Makina-670.html</p>

<p>The Makina 670 seems to be in the $1000 and up range.</p>

<p>Interesting camera, though.</p>

<p>I much enjoyed the Makina 670 (like the 67) but its servicing was a bit of a problem. If you want a frame size compromise between 4.5 x 6 cm and 6 x 7 or larger (6 x 9 Fujifilm is an excellent camera), then a 6 x 6 cm camera like the Hasselblad or various TLRs or the Mamiya 6 (and its excellent three optics) is worth considering. I would give the nod to the latter as it seems to better suit travel, whereas the Hasselblad (not the wide angle fixed lens SWC) may be more versatile for other uses. The Mamiya 6 may not be easiest to get service on but if you find a well cared for (mint or mint- version) and go easy on its film advance system it should last well, as mine has. A 124G or similar TLR is probably best in economic sense, as a mint Mamiya 6 with normal lens will likely cost upwards of $1000 and one with the 50mm WA lens several hundred dollars more. I have a close to mint Minolta Autocord that I am not using (except shutter exercise every 3 to 6 month) but might be willing to part with if you are interested in that camera.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"...I am looking for a camera that can handle relatively slow shutter speeds well. I am looking primarily at some street photography and landscapes."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>When I travel on holiday as a tourist and plan on shooting a lot of landscapes, I carry a Fuji 6x9cm medium format rangefinder with 65mm f/5.6 lens. If I plan on shooting landscapes and people, I carry a Fuji 6x7cm medium format rangefinder with a 90mm f/3.5 lens.</p>

<p> </div>

<p>A also have a Pentax 645N and NII - I find the camera with a prime lens i.e. 55mm relatively small for a medium format camera, and haven't had a problem with mirror slap. I'm also partial to TLR's such as the Rolleiflexes and Yashicamat, after you've gotten used to them.</p>

<p>For ease of handling at slow speeds (1/15 sec) the Linhof 220 works well for me. These are becoming hard to find but can be had for around $500 on Ebay from time to time. A rangefinder with a big life-size viewfinder.</p>

<p>Many good cameras mentioned here. I've just returned from travel with a Mamiya 7II and I realize that I'm just not in love with the 6x7 format. In addition, the external viewfinders for the 43mm and 150mm lenses are a bit if a pain to use. I like the 65mm lens best with this camer, but all the optics are truly superb.<br>

If you like square as I do, the Mamiya 6 is one of the best cameras ever made. Great optics as well. Love the 50mm. But be careful as the camera can be fragile and the film transport can be virtually impossible to fix as parts are no longer available. <br>

Using a Hasselblad SWC is a great idea. It's a great camera, but rather limited. <br>

My favorite camera these days is the Hasselblad V system 503cw with a variety of lenses, and if I want rectangular I can shoot with the A16 645 back as well. Rather bulky to carry however. </p>

<p>Thanks all!<br /> Through the course of this post, I have vacillated constantly between the following cameras:<br /> <strong>1. The Fuji 645s</strong><br /> <strong>2. The Fuji 6x9s. </strong><br /> <strong>3. The Bronica RF645</strong><br /> Seems like a great compromise between quality and size, but the cost is a sticking point. The camera+normal lens would run me close to $1000, only slightly cheaper than the Mamiya 6. <br /> <strong>4. Rolleiflex or Yashica Mat 124G. </strong><br /> I purchased a Yashicamat before and ended up returning it. The results were crazy good stopped down, but I was left with a lot to desire wide open or close to wide-open. With expected conditions in France and Italy, that is a deal breaker for me. <br /> I am open to the Rolleiflex's, if their wide open performance is better. <br /> <strong>5. The Mamiya 6 (a Mamiya 7II is out of the question from a cost perspective). </strong><br /> I was really close to pulling the trigger on the Mamiya 6, but the cost vs condition equation didn't add up for me: especially in light of its apparent "fragility". I was looking at shelling out $1200+ on the Mamiya 6+50mm in average condition. I didn't find that overly appetizing. <br /> <strong>6. Sticking with my Pentax 645N and purchasing either the Hasselblad 80mm F2.8 or the Pentax 645 75mm F2.8 to go with it. </strong><br /> This seems the most viable option at this point. I would end up saving $$$, which can be used towards the purchase of an Epson Perfection V750. <br /> I have 3 weeks to go for my vacation, so hope to nail this down soon. :) <br /> Thanks for all the valuable suggestions.</p>

<p>Folks,<br>

I might be able to snag a Mamiya 6+50mm F4 in full functional condition for ~$1100. Seems like a lot of money, but it does appear lower than I what I am seeing on the auction site. <br>

Before I spend that kind of money, I want to be completely convinced that it's a good purchase, especially in light of the lack of available parts for the Mamiya 6 should something go wrong. <br>

I do have an agreement with the seller that I can return the camera within 2 weeks should I find something off, but there are no guarantees against long term failure.<br>

Thanks.<br>

Avi</p>