Macbook Pro 17 - Calibration Problem

<p>I had some test prints from Miller's lab. I was shocked when I saw the prints. They don't match to what I see on my MBP. What the heck?! So I had MPIX print the same images. Same results! Okay process of elimination - it must be my monitor. I bought an Eye-one Display 2 and went to the advance Laptop monitor calibration mode. No good! Prints still do not look like what I see on the monitor. What gives?!</p>

 

<p>What's the problem - chromo, luma, saturation? What's your software? What color space are you working in? What temp and brightness did you calibrate for?</p>

<p>The MBP monitor isn't perfect - no laptop screen is - but it's pretty decent, so if your prints are way off you've probably got a problem in your software workflow.</p>

<p>I used Eye-One Display 2 calibration software and went through the advance mode for laptop. I tried many combinations. <br>

5000K - 5500K - 6500K<br>

1.8 and 2.2 gamma<br>

90 - 110 luminance</p>

 

<p>You still haven't told us in what way(s) your prints do not match. Nobody can really help you out until you give a concise but thorough description of the issue(s). :) Andrew gave you some examples of parameters to describe.</p>

<p>For example, you'd be amazed at the number of problems caused by not correctly converting the JPG file to sRGB when working in an Adobe RGB workflow. That issue is so confusing that not even knowing anything about what you're doing I can give 50-50 odds that that (or something very similar) is the problem.</p>

<p>Did you get an actual output profile from the lab to setup a soft proof? Do you know they used that exact profile and with that rendering intent, or did they ask (demand) you send them sRGB? </p>

<p>Workflow: Starting point is Lightroom. Then Edit in Photoshop from Lightroom in sRGB TIFF format. I save the file as TIFF when I exit Photosohop. Returns in Lightroom to save file dimension and convert to JPG 300dpi.  Then I upload the files to Miller's lab to print.<br>

Please advise.  I really appreciate your inputs.<br>

The prints do not match. When I set temp to 5000K, images on monitor appear much warmer than prints. When I set to 6500K, images on monitor appear much cooler than prints. I was told Miller's lab uses 5000K, 2.2, at 110. I tried that setting but images on monitor still look off - meaning areas that look warmer on prints aren't on monitor and vice versa.</p>

<p>If your print to digital file display is more off than shown in the photo of my prints off my Epson NX 400 to its digital version, then Mpix is way off from sRGB and needs to provide an accurate profile describing how off they are so you can convert to it.</p><div></div>

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<p>then Mpix is way off from sRGB ....</p>

 

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<p>There's no such thing as an sRGB printer. So I don't know, without an actual output profile of this device (which would solve many of these issues) anyone can say the device is way off from sRGB. They convert to some output color space with sRGB being the input color space expected. The only sRGB output device is a CRT display circa 1992.</p>

<p>Excuse me, Andrew.</p>

<p>I meant to say the print of the image is way off in its color/hue rendering similar to how it would a appear viewed on the display in the sRGB space in a color managed app. IOW reds don't look orange or rose, blues don't look purple, bright grass green doesn't look olive and so on.</p>

<p>Is that specific enough?</p>

<p>I'm trying to help sandy, not confuse her. All she has to do is look at how off my prints are in the image I posted to determine what level of matching to sRGB and common colors viewed in that space look.</p>

<p>If you have a better idea on how to help her, then don't hold back.</p>

<p>I calibrated another laptop (this time a PC). 5000K, 2.2, 110. I ran the setting on Eye-One Display 2 same way as MBP17. I then put both side by side for comparison = result is the same, same color, hue, depth, luminance.<br>

I am confused! Does this mean the prints from Miller's lab are off?!? What printing labs do you use? I think I should get prints from another printing lab.</p>

 

<p>

Perhaps my workflow is incorrect? My starting point is Lightroom. From LR, I use "Edit in Adobe Photoshop 3" -- see below screenshot.

 

 

After I'm done with CS3, I save/close the image which brings me back to Lightroom. I then save the edited file in 8x10 and send it off to the lab for prints.

 

Does my workflow or file setting look correct to you? Your feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

 

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<p>

 

 

<p>If you have a better idea on how to help her, then don't hold back.</p>

 

 

 

</p>

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I do, get an ICC profile for the output process and soft proof it, convert and send that. But if the lab doesn't support that logical and Photoshop designed workflow, you can't even begin to produce a print to screen match.

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<p>strange, i have MBP 13 and for image processing i set brightness to 100% and leave everything as it is although i probably should get some sort of calabration software.<br>

sorry to hijack, but what comes recommended by MBP users?</p>

<p>Updates:<br>

Today I went to Best Buy and the Apple guy in there recommended Samsung's 2333sw. Took it home & calibrated with Eye-One Display. I can't report that it's a 100% match but pretty darn close! Much better than the laptop monitor. What irks me is now I realized I spent all that money on a MBP but the monitor is not up to par.<br>

I also downloaded a demo of ColorEyes Display Pro. It didn't help. I am keeping my Samsung and Eye-One Display.<br>

I also used MPIX's test prints. Not good. Everything came back dark dark dark. I am going to order some test prints from WHCC this weekend. Will report back next week. </p>

 

<p>sandy w,</p>

<p>I think the Samsung is a TN panel. You might do better with an IPS type LCD. Check out the Dell ultrasharp line (upper end) Their 2209wa is a low end 22" IPS display. (+/- $200.00) Gradients and colors are rendered much better. Calibration devices work better with the better panels, also.</p>

<p>I have a macbook pro, also. It's OK at best. The 13" macbooks have horrible displays.</p>

<p>I've been looking into the Dell 2209WA and found this very informative review:</p>

<p>http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-dell-2209wa-part10.html</p>

<p>It shows how well it can be calibrated and the required curve applied to the video LUT to put it there. Its color gamut is a little bit over sRGB. You'll note the lowest calibrated luminance possible is 127 cd/m2.</p>

<p>sandy w,<br /> I generally do my basic stuff in Lightroom, pipe it over to photoshop and save the file from PS directly. Heck, jpeg's usually match well. Transferring it back to Lightroom may be causing some problems. Your printing providers may be picking up too much information.<br /> Tim,</p>

<p>For small money over a basic 22" TN panel, the 2209WA is a quite noticable improvement. I could have purchased a 24" pro model, but my home is small and 24's take up a lot more space. It also depends on one's viewing distance.</p>

<p>The built in Mac display calibration usually gets me very close, but I also have a calibration device. I use a 15" pro and a 13" white book. On the 13" the amount of adjustment needed in basic calibration is out of the range of variance. I use the 13" hooked up to the 2209WA.</p>

<p>Thanks for the info on the 2209WA, Steven.</p>

<p>Do you get a close match to all three- the 13", 15" and Dell? How bright is the Dell working with it at night using available ambient light. I have my iMac down to 100 cd/m2 and it's quite comfortable as long as I have my 18" GE Sunshine fluorescent tube turned on about 3 feet off to the side.</p>

<p>Tim,</p>

<p>Any differences we have in ambient lighting are going to amount to moot in our monitor settings. For serious stuff, my room with the Dell is fairly dark. I use factory default settings as a starting point, and then calibrate. Also, everyone's perception and sensitivity to color is different. I also never use sRGB on my cameras and transfer edits using "pro photo rgb."</p>

<p>An example would be, say I am in a bright room and use "universal access" preference pane to bump up the contrast on my laptop,<strong> then</strong> I calibrate. The increase in contrast using the "ua" preference pane is totally useless, as it reverts to the same visual (as if I never fiddled with it.)</p>

<p>I'm fairly lucky (or cursed) that I have somewhat sensitive eyes toward color and detail and that I can get things pretty good without aid. For instance, if I change a channel on the TV many stations will require a fine tune in color/contrast to look correct.</p>

<p>The Dell, and the 15" macbook are fairly consistent with each other if I jocky a finished image between them, (my LCD tv also.) The 13" macbook IMO is a sRGB screen on crack and could benefit greatly with a color "volume" control. It's like using the "vivid" setting on the camera and pumping it up from there. But if I travel, it's small, fast and in a pinch, quite usable.</p>

<p>sandy w,</p>

<p>you are going through it but I work with a MBP and get great results, there is one world class retoucher on the forums that works with a MBP on set and the laptop and Apple display at the office. I really think the core of your problem is the printers and their profiles, you need to work with colour managed printers, they need to tell you their specs and work your prints to that. Even the same printing firm will have several printers, they could all be set up differently, my local guy has three machines, I need to set files up differently for each machine.</p>

<p>Very interesting. I ordered a 2209WA. I still have the Samsung. Will do a side-by-side comparison when the Dell arrives on Tuesday.</p>

<p>I just ordered the same model and I'll report what I find as well.</p>

<p>It's my first non-iMac LCD that I intend to keep over the junk I could only get at Walmart and OfficeMax and Office Depot. </p>

<p>Funny thing about that Denmark review site I linked is that I calibrated a Dell 2007wfp that had an S-IPS panel and it looked great for my client, who was quite happy with it, but that review site gave it a lower rating over the 2209WA. Guess it can't be too bad to work with.</p>

<p>Hope it's just as good as my 2004 iMac S-IPS panel which is currenlty starting to flicker quite a bit when first turned on.</p>

<p>Just got the Dell 2209WA today and I have to say it's almost just as good as my 2004 G5 iMac which has an S-IPS panel.</p>

<p>The only issue I have with it is its black point isn't as dense and dark as my iMac's. 000 RGB black is also much bluer looking as well, but its not a deal breaker. It's connected to the iMac's mini-VGA port so I can adjust the white balance on the Dell to match the iMacs which I got very close. Calibrates very well and it needs it too because it's quite greenish brown loading the canned sRGB profile even when the white point looks neutral.</p>

<p>This thread...</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00UT1m</p>

<p>...where I participated in concerning eyeball calibrators and posted a photo of the Dell calibrated next to the iMac verifies the Dell's quality is good enough to calibrate by eye using Apple's Calibrator Utility accessed through Display preferences.</p>

<p>It's not a perfect monitor and needs a lot of adjusting of the brightness, contrast and RGB adjusts to get it close to sRGB standard. The sRGB Standard mode puts the Dell at its optimum but way too blue and bright looking in need of an extreme gamma fix. In sRGB Standard mode the screen has no color crossovers viewed in a B&W gradient, but it is much bluer than my hardware calibrated Imac in this state. It can be corrected using a hardware calibrator if using a DVI connect.</p>

<p>Hi Tim<br /> I got my Dell 2209WA today. Would you please tell me what your settings are? Do you set your Dell to 6500K, 2.2 gamma and 120 lum with Eye-One Match? I'm aware that not every monitor is the same but I really would appreciate that you could also share your RGB numbers and Bright/Contrast numbers after you calibrated.<br>

Thank you in advance!<br>

I use i1 calibrator set my desire settings to 65K, 2.2 and 120. In the end, my numbers are Bright=64, Contract=85, R=72, G=69, B=68. Unfortunately, my test prints from Miller's Lab and MPIX are still different than what I see on the Dell monitor. So, I ordered some test prints from WHCC. I'm running out of ideas.</p>