Are the chemicals very unhealthy?

<p>Well, back to my grandfather. he was a film photographer for nearly 60 years and spent sometimes 6 days a week in the darkroom.</p>

<p>Yes he died of cancer.</p>

<p>But it might have been the 50 a day cigarette habit he had.</p>

<p>Here is a good saying:<br>

<em>Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming WOW - WHAT A RIDE!</em></p>

<p>Get a life people!</p>

 

<p>Now I think you're all going overboard the other way. Remember that Sarah's OP was that she was having difficulty in the darkroom.</p>

<p>Sure we piled on; that's what we do best here. To scoff at handling these chemicals is not a bright idea either, but also true fashion at Pnet.</p>

<p>Oh, BTW, there is a 212 page book you can get from Amazon.com entitled "Health Hazards for Photographers", by Sempel. I'm sure that since the latter posters mock those of us who take this seriously, that this book is filled with blank pages, but you be the judge<g>.</p>

<p>So too would be the 300+ page book, "Overexposure, Health Hazards in Photography" by Shaw and Rossel. Unlike some arrogant asses here on this thread, Shaw is an environmental scientist and Rossel is a chemist and industrial hygenist. All I can say Sarah, is take this stuff seriously.</p>

<p>Stephen says it best of all, as he mocks us, "Get a life people!" Umm, that's what we're trying to do here Stephen. Thanks for the useful advice.</p>

<p>For those of you who have not had issues, I'm very glad for you. Sarah had a serious question, coming from a serious concern. Why don't you guys quit peeing all over each other and answer the question with the respect it (and she) deserves?</p>

<p>Sarah I don't know what's causing your dizziness but a good check up with your doctor wouldn't hurt. Could very well be other issues. Like some others I don't like mixing powders like D76 (though I do). I'd rather use liquid chems and try not to let them touch skin. I also have my premixed, premeasured chems in tupperware containers sealed with lids. They don't get opened until used and get quickly rinsed when empty. I also keep the rubber stopper in place on my Jobo daylight tank. That all helps to keep odors, fumes and minor spills to a minimum. Best of luck with this situation.</p>

<p>Michael Axel;</p>

<p>I have the first editions of both of those books. I find that they are filled with a great deal of overreaction to chemicals in general. That is the kind of book and authorship that would ban table salt because it can cause high blood pressure. We must take this on balance.</p>

<p>I neither suggest ignorance nor total fright at chemicals, but rather a balanced look and safety in the lab. At the present time, enrollment in college chemistry courses is way down due to the hype against chemistry. At one time, the US was a leader in chemistry and today we are stagnating mainly due to attitude not reality.</p>

<p>What I suggest is not irrationality with chemicals, but rather reality with them with the proper dose of caution. Take a close look at those two books and I think you will see that EDTA, a useful drug and a useful food additive is listed in the "suspected carcinogen" and "toxic to humans" lists unless the authors got a dose of reality themselves and changed the entries.</p>

<p>I agree with Michael Ferron, and added in my first post that I think that Sarah should get some medical advice.</p>

<p>Ron Mowrey</p>

<p>Interesting that this thread allows the expression "asses"...<br>

Micheal A, I did not mean any disrespect there is no doubt that some of these chemicals are toxic - at the right dose, as I tried to suggest. Maybe some ill advised humor. I think what people are trying do to is to avoid Sarah giving up her darkroom because of chemicals. I work with people everyday that handle radioactivity daily, and responsibly, and have not been harmed because the follow the appropriate guidelines. I am myself exposed to X-Rays almost daily, but use precautions. The MSDS are good starting points and give you a good sense of hwat is dangerous. Respect where respect is due. There are things that can kill you - like messing with daguerreotype.</p>

<p>The issue of toxicity has to be distinguished from<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersensitivity"> hypersensitivity/allergic type reactions</a> , such as type I (Asthma type) or type IV (contact dermatitis/eczema).</p>

<p>Dizziness is such a vague symptom, though. Causes include, but obviously are to limited to, hypoxia, hyperventilation and dehydration all which could happen during a long darkroom session. Let's not add anxiety (one other cause) to that for anyone reading this thread.</p>

 

<p>Look Sarah, don't let all this get out of proportion. Michael has an excellent point, maybe a trip to the doctor would help. Dizziness is caused by all kinds of things. If this is a new problem, try to think about what might have changed recently. Did you switch to a different brand of chemical or start processing in a different room of the house? Are you eating differently or taking a new medicine/supplement? If something is irritating you, it will be found by a process of methodical elimination. </p>

<p>I should mention that when I worked in the lab, we had large machines with lots of chemistry in a small room. We used Fuji and Agfa color chems. The machines generated lots of heat. Even though that room had its own AC, the room temperature never got below 80-81F. When I was using the B&W darkroom at school, I never had a problem with dizziness, but two of my classmates did. We used all Kodak chems there.</p>

<p>Let see, I've processed thousands of rolls of film, 35mm to 10 inch aerial roll film, and probably the same for sheet film. I've printed 100's of thousand prints. I've never used tongs or gloves. I've tasted chemicals to determine their potency and have had hands so brown from chemicals that I thought they might never be clean again. That was what photography used to be.</p>

<p>At 65 if I were to go back to processing film, I would do it the same because that's the way I learn. I've never known a photographer or darkroom technician that has suffered any ill effects of working with chemicals in the business.</p>

<p>Use some common sense and there is little danger. Btw, please see a doctor before your dizziness worsens. It may be totally unrelated to your darkroom activities.</p>

<p>Interesting thread. As others suggest please read the accompanying safety info for the chemistry you are using. And take some steps to have proper ventilation.<br>

For anecdotes, I don't think I can top anything already posted, but I've been in and out of darkroom and paint chemistry for a long time. But I"m willing to bet I'm the only one here whose hand has turned black from bare-fist developing a roll of lithographic film by holding it in the tank and agitating it (long story for another day). Indeed, attitudes about chemistry and chemicals have changed a bit over the years... for the better.</p>

<p>Well I never get dizzy in other situations, and its only a little bit. But it did make me think about the health part. I dont suffer from anything else at all and I never did take any medicin etc. <br /> But cant I just wear a mask like some painters do? <br /> I also think I will start wearing gloves. I have developed 85 films so far. Only 2 times have I been in the darkroom to copy it to paper. So its just a problem with the developing of the film and doing it from now on and 50 years more that worried me.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2336892">Stephen</a>;<br>

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming WOW - WHAT A RIDE!</p>

<p>Really good:-)) </p>

<p>Sarah;</p>

<p>The paint filter and most like it are intended to filter out airborne particles or droplets and as such will not filter out gaseous products if that is what is of concern. So, you can remove dust with that mask, but not a gas.</p>

<p>As for anecdotes, I can teach a week course just on anecdotes (true ones), and probably have you laughing most of the time, but the point remains that chemicals, in the wrong situation, can be harmful. Be especially careful of chemicals trapped under the fingernails. Wash well after a darkroom session and wear a lab coat to protect any exposed skin or clothing. They are sometimes sold as "shop coats" and have full sleeves to protect the arms. I also have a special pair of shoes for the darkroom to prevent carrying chemicals into the rest of the house should I have a floor spill.</p>

<p>Ron Mowrey</p>

<p>I have worked in the semiconductor industry for well over 30yrs now, I have been blown up in a H2 explosion, been burned with Nitric/Sulfuric and Hydrofloric Acid (HF) been gassed with Diborine, HCL, been burned with Silane gas (a pyrophoric, burns in contact with O2) and many other things. the industry is why i have 2 artifical knees... So what does that have to do with anything? In my experance the MOST DANGEROUS chems/gasses etc are the ones that diplace O2, the chems you are using are not in of themselves killers, but when you are working in a closed darkroom the fumes can displace the O2 in the room. The FIRST sign of O2 loss is dizzyness and headache. proper ventilation is a MUST! I have been around very dangerous chems most my life and have learned the MSDS is your friend. I also feel that a attitude like "it didn't hurt that guy" is not a safe one. everyone has a different level of tolerance to these things. If you feel ANY adverse effects with ANY chems (household, paint, cleaning automotive etc..) take a step back and research what you are working with.<br>

Be Safe 1st,<br>

Nik</p>

<p>I have worked in the semiconductor industry for well over 30yrs now, I have been blown up in a H2 explosion, been burned with Nitric/Sulfuric and Hydrofloric Acid (HF) been gassed with Diborine, HCL, been burned with Silane gas (a pyrophoric, burns in contact with O2) and many other things. the industry is why i have 2 artifical knees... So what does that have to do with anything? In my experance the MOST DANGEROUS chems/gasses etc are the ones that diplace O2, the chems you are using are not in of themselves killers, but when you are working in a closed darkroom the fumes can displace the O2 in the room. The FIRST sign of O2 loss is dizzyness and headache. proper ventilation is a MUST! I have been around very dangerous chems most my life and have learned the MSDS is your friend. I also feel that a attitude like "it didn't hurt that guy" is not a safe one. everyone has a different level of tolerance to these things. If you feel ANY adverse effects with ANY chems (household, paint, cleaning automotive etc..) take a step back and research what you are working with.<br>

Be Safe 1st,<br>

Nik</p>

<p>Nik;</p>

<p>In normal usage, there are no chemicals in photography that could displace the Oxygen to the extent you describe. I've been in Ether explosions, been gassed with Phosgene and etc.. All of this was in graduate school, but in a photo lab.... No, this will NOT happen. About the worst volatiles are SO2 gas and Acetic Acid (vinegar).</p>

<p>No worries from the latter, and only a mild worry from the former if you are allergic to SO2. Even that usually causes a myriad of other symptoms and in any case a doctor would give better advice.</p>

<p>Ron Mowrey</p>

<p>If the acid fixer is making you feel sick, switch to an alcaline fixer. Available at Photographers Formulary.</p>

<p>Sorry, that should read "Alkaline fixer,"</p>

<p>My two cents:</p>

<p>Switch to a non-metol based developer such as Xtol.<br>

Switch to a citrus based stop such as ilfostop. Or use diluted vinegar (14%).<br>

I wish there was a way to make fixer 100% safe, but there isn't. Use caution with it.</p>

<p>Just acknowledging that I read most of this, have many hours in the DR, use tongs, don't mix powders, have decent ventilation in my DR, I do have a fair amount of health problems, none that I can attribute to the DR. Like some of you, I too have a moderate view. One of the most experienced old-time DR addicts I ever knew sloshed in every possible chemical known to man, had prostate cancer in his 70s, died last year at 90, photochemicals unlikely but possible. Ansel Adams seems to have preserved well at an advanced age, Edward Weston had Parkinson's I believe, not likely from the DR. I too agree, allergies and hypersensitivities are probably biggest concern aside from good ventilation and the need to take the basic precautions. </p>

<p>Fixer is reasonably safe. Sodium Thiosulfate and Sodium Sulfite are used to balance chlorine in swimming pools. As such, they are added by the tubfull to the pool while running tests for chlorine level. Thiosulfate is used intravenously as a remedy for Cyanide poisoning.</p>

<p>Diluted vinegar ( 1 - 2% ) is stop bath. Just make sure you used white vinegar.</p>

<p>Ron Mowrey</p>

 

<p>My personal favorite is the recommendation to avoid photo-chemistry induced suicide while working in your darkroom. While I sometimes get depressed and short tempered over my failure to set a correct exposure or carry a spare battery I never dreamed that my darkroom potions might cause me to end it all in a tray of ANSCO 130.</p>

<p>Hi Sarah,<br>

I've been into photography since the mid 60's and the best book that I've found to date that deals with health hazards in photography, is:"Overexposure" health hazard in photography by Susan D. Shaw and Monona Rossol published by Allworth Press, New York and distributed by Amphoto Books. I'm not sure if the book is still in print, but you can get a copy through the library (ISBN: 0-9607118-6-4). Proper ventilation and a pair of nitrile gloves can't hurt either. Some people can't tolerate latex gloves so I keep nitrile gloves in stock. Try: LSS.COM for filter masks and glove supply's (Lab Safety Supplies). I've run a photo lab for a long time and I find it safer to limit my contact with liquid chemistry and the use of a good filter mask whenever I mix powder chemistry, it all adds up over the years.<br>

Bill LaPete</p>

<p>Hi Sarah,<br /> I've been into photography since the mid 60's and the best book that I've found to date that deals with health hazards in photography, is: "Overexposure" health hazard in photography by Susan D. Shaw and Monona Rossol published by Allworth Press, New York and distributed by Amphoto Books. I'm not sure if the book is still in print, but you can get a copy through the library (ISBN: 0-9607118-6-4). Proper ventilation and a pair of nitrile gloves can't hurt either. Some people can't tolerate latex gloves so I keep nitrile gloves in stock. Try: LSS.COM for filter masks and glove supply's (Lab Safety Supplies). I've run a photo lab for a long time and I find it safer to limit my contact with liquid chemistry and the use of a good filter mask whenever I mix powder chemistry, it all adds up over the years. <br /> Bill La Pete</p>

<p>I have nitrile gloves which I got from Gempler's. If I'm using a Paterson tank which doesn't leak I may not wear any gloves. I find that a wide rubber band around the line where the bottom of the SS tank meets the top will keep things pretty watertight as long as the cap fits properly. With a phenidone based developer, a citric acid stop bath and a little care using the fixer it is not too hard to keep things safe. Once you start using color chemicals there are other things to think about. It's been a long time since I moved prints around with my bare hands and was up to my elbows in Dektol.</p>

<p>One problem is they are not latex and as in Condoms they are a good second try. As in Sheep intestine they will not block out as much as Latex will. but if you are allergic to Latex then use them just remember you are just not as protected... Then again... Only worry if you are allergic to the chems and if that is the case maybe Using a PRo Lab or Digital is what you need to keep your creative juices and Art flowing.</p>