Good news or bad news for classic camera users?

<p>I have recently noticed more people in the 20-30 age bracket out and about with film cameras. Last week a young guy in town with an M series Leica and 90mm Elmar, a couple of weeks before a girl in her late teens using an Olympus OM10. Also last week I saw a twenty something at my local (classic camera) dealer's debating the pros and cons of a Leica M3 over a Leica M2. He eventually bought the M2. Even my mum has gone back to using her autofocus Minolta compact film camera recently!<br>

Is there something new happening here or is this just wishful thinking on my part? A dealer that I know has told me that good medium format gear and high quality 35mm equipment, especially Leica M is flying off the shelves at present.<br>

For collectors and users of classic gear this is bad news in terms of getting our regular fix of "bargains", as we may be seeing more competition in future. However from the future of film standpoint it has to add to what has been recent heartening news in terms of film sales levelling out.<br>

I may be quite wrong but it would be interesting to know if any one else has picked up on this.</p>

<p>No, it's definitely happening (to the degree where The Onion did a <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/17_year_old_thinks_shes">joke news article</a> about it). Prices seem to have been creeping up recently on film gear.</p>

<p>If this keeps film production and processing services viable, it's got to be a good thing in the long run.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>haha, that onion article's hilarious!</p>

<p>steph, i too seem to notice more and more folks unexpectedly returning to film and their old cameras. i ran into a gentleman at a vintage vw show shooting on a 60's voigtlander 35mm rangefinder and a kid at a wedding this weekend with a pentax me super and apparently a host of other pentax's at home. sure these two are probably like us but i've even run into folks like a pair of high school girls at an ice cream stand taking photos of each other with a k1000 for class and a girl in a boutique holding an olympus om-1 who looked at me funny when i complimented her on it. i am sort of glad she was rude. it seemed to imply that it was only natural she be toting this 1972 machine alongside her new designer purse. </p>

<p>honestly though, i think that when you are involved in a hobby or interest you will see what you want to see. i am into vintage vw's and land rovers and i spot them all over the place now. but in previous years before i was into them, i didn't notice as many. </p>

<p>i meet very few folks who actually don't prefer film or the cameras to digital. they are just swayed by convenience. so i think that if we keep doing what we're doing and keep spreading the idea that it's actually not impossible to keep doing this, people will pick up on it and at least try it.</p>

<p>btw, my girlfriend has been putting down her d80 for a nikkormat i refurbed for her recently. i'm optimistic!</p>

<p>It's a good thing. As recent news from Kodak confirms, if people aren't buying the film, companies will stop making it.</p>

<p>It's real and it's a good thing in terms of film production. I taught a Photo I class this summer (darkroom) and several students went out to buy good 35mm used gear and found the prices high and supply low. Our local camera store said they cannot keep good used Nikon, Pentax and Olympus etc bodies in stock. They also said lots of young people are buying darkroom supplies too.<br>

Our local camera store chain just did a big TV commercial and they mentiioned that they have both FILM and FILM CAMERAS along with the usual digi-rot. Let's hope the trend continues...and the boneheads at Kodak buy a clue.</p>

<p>I may be one of them as well! "Just" 29 years old and shooting classical manual cameras for just a year...(no designer purse to go with them however ;)).</p>

<p>However, I've been shooting film non-stop since I'm 19 (but with plastic AF film SLRs). Only after my plastic-fantastic EOS 300 broke down and I decided to replace it with a digital SLR, I soon found out the joy of the classical film cameras.</p>

<p>Something is definitely happening. Although I haven't personally seen more people using film cameras where I live (people really aren't all that much into photography in general where I live), I have definitely noticed that the prices for vintage film cameras are going up. Back around 2006 or 2007, I could go on eBay and buy pretty much any vintage camera I wanted for dirt cheap. Usually, I was the only bidder. But now, it seems like every time I try to buy a camera, it turns into a bidding war. I've even seen the Argus C3 sell for around $20 or $25...and people are actually bidding on it! It's gotten to the point that I usually just look for "Buy-It-Now" cause I just don't want to deal with that crap anymore.</p>

<p>Also, when people see me shooting with one of my vintage cameras, no one makes any sarcastic remarks anymore. They actually are genuinely curious and ask me questions. The really funny thing is while I was downtown taking pictures with my Yashica A recently, a kid came up to me and started asking questions, and he specifically asked "what kind of film does that take?" He recognized that it was a film camera, and was curious about what kind it used.</p>

<p>By the way, I'm 31. I first joined Photo.net when I was about 28, and I posted a question about my Argus C3. So I fit into your age group, if that answers your question about more young people using vintage cameras ;)<br />Heck, all my film cameras were made LONG before I was even born.</p>

<p>I also posted a question a while back about young people here who use antique cameras. There were a lot more than I thought. We're out there. It's not just teenage emo kids running around with a Holga. There are getting to be a lot more people in their 20's and 30's are shooting with film, and especially vintage cameras. I know several people on Flickr who shoot pretty much exclusively with film, and they're around my age too.</p>

<p>I also develop my own B&W film and prints (in a darkroom in my garage, with an enlarger)</p>

<p>And here's the topic I posted a while back...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00TLvE">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00TLvE</a></p>

<p>Based on the level of business that used camera dealers are doing (and the higher prices they are paying for good gear) it does appear that there is a resurgence in popularity for film equipment. It's not a Tsunami, but there is a definite uptrend. I don't think film is making a huge comeback, but rather is reaching a level of stability in mindshare and starting to level off in usage, which is great news.<br>

Among the younger film shooters I've spoken to, there is a "cool factor" that seems to be developing for retro gear. Their friends and associates no longer treat film users with derision as they did in the earlier days of the digital takeover. That has to be helping.</p>

<p>What a great response! And just what I hoped to hear. My experiences on Ebay lately have been much like yours Chris to the point where I mainly just use it as a vehicle to sell now. I too cannot be bothered with the dedication and effort required to save a few pounds/dollars and have gone back to using one or two trusted dealers for major purchases or Buy it Now for accessories.<br>

One of the two remaining photographic outlets in my city has for a while now had a classic camera section but only over the last three or four months have I noticed the stock turning over to an appreciable extent.<br>

And I don't mean to be disparaging in any way about people in their 20s and 30s if I give that impression. At the venerable age of 55 I can't help thinking of you guys as youngsters though! A few years ago I posted on this forum that quality construction and design will always eventually find a section of the population that will embrace it irrespective of age and gender. Maybe we are just starting to see it happen. Fingers crossed anyway.</p>

 

<p>Steve, I think you're right and in a way I also think it's a rebellion. You have to remember that for people my age, we were kids in the 80's and 90's, and we have grown up completely surrounded by electronics and cheap plastic junk. From the time I was born, everything around me was made of plastic. I've always loved taking pictures, but until I became more seriously interested in photography about 2 or 3 years ago, the only thing I knew how to use was plastic point and shoot 35mm and 110 cameras. (And later on, digital cameras). I always had a curiosity about antique mechanical cameras whenever I had seen them when I went to antique shops and thrift shops with my parents. But I had no idea how to use them.</p>

<p>When I finally discovered antique cameras and learned how to use manual exposure, it was like I discovered something completely new and foreign to me. An all-metal mechanical camera has such a nice, solid and precise look and feel to it. It's so completely different from the plastic junk I grew up with. I love using vintage cameras, and I love shooting film. But part of the reason is also because it's a rebellion...we're yearning for something different and something more substatial than the plastic, throw-away consumer junk that we grew up with.</p>

<p>So you're definitely right. People are beginning to appreciate the better construction of classic cameras. But specifically, for a lot of young people, we are attracted to them because it's so different from what we grew up with. It's a refreshing experience.</p>

<p>As i have no viable alternative to the Bay, i have noticed it is getting more expensive and with less choice. It does seem to much hassle to chase an item by Auction now.<br>

I am pleased to know it isnt just me!</p>

<p>It might just be a sign of things to come... I was out recently with my "new" Moskva 2, and the first thing one fellow asked me was "what kind of film does that thing take?" Of course, I explained it to him that 120 film is still available, but you have to go to places that provide professional service. You won't find 120 film at Walmart anymore.</p>

<p>Rob, when was the last time you <em>could</em> find 120 film at places like Walmart though? I don't remember <em>ever </em>seeing it there. I've always seen 35mm, and when I was a kid, I remember seeing 110. I <em>faintly</em> remember seeing 126 and even disc film when I was a little kid. But I don't remember ever seeing 120 roll film in places like Walmart, Target, K-Mart, etc.</p>

<p>But yeah, it's available from any decent photo supply shop, for fairly cheap.</p>

<p>People are into vinyl records too. Some record labels are issuing new releases on vinyl as well as optical media.</p>

<p>I think the Onion article has hit the core of the issue though. ;)</p>

<p>The Onion article is funny because we recognise from it some fad that we have all had in the past. People have always done this with photography; bought a "good" camera, used it for 6 months and then moved onto the next thing. The good thing is that the option of trying a camera with film will (with luck) still be there for that percentage of new photographers that end up staying with it long term.<br>

Confession time: I spent some time and money putting together equipment and materials for making my own picture frames. In the 6 or 7 years since I did this I have made a grand total of two frames!</p>

<p>Being 20 doesn't mean they are stupid. This is a very very good thing! The only "bad" part is prices going up, which is good if you have too many classics and need to scale back! Back at the beginning of this recession, I remember many many people commented that the recession was going to permanently kill film. Except that it has had the opposite effect. Even the Canon digi shooters have to admit it's nice to be able to pick up a spare Elan body for a few hundred and shoot slides or B&W film that would otherwise require massive amounts of post processing to emulate in any kind of effect way.</p>

<p>JDM... there has been alot of press recently about the 10 year life span of CD's. It's too bad nobody thought to say that 15 years ago. :( Records have a dramatically longer life than CD's and will continue to be playable even after massive amounts of abuse and neglect. And that's the biggest problem with a lot of digital media. It has an almost zero tolerance for neglect and abuse, which have been the corner stones of the human/tool relationship since the first stone ax was dropped in the mud.</p>

<p>It's up and down....and back up and then down again. This past April I went to a Photo show and watched as a mint Omega B-22 with lens and neg holders didn't move for $20 then $10 and then it was put in the free box and still wasn't picked up. Bet it wound up in the dumpster outside! So sad. But, it seems that popular SLR's from the 70's are on the way up. Metal-mechanical-manual-not battery dependant-marvels with simple direct interface between the photographer and his machine. Except for pure stupidity I don't see why DSLR's can't have a aperture dial on a lens, a shutter speed dial on the body and a manual, distance marked focus ring on the lens when AF won't/can't work!</p>

<p>I actually see people carrying and using film SLRs now, which is something I didn't see a few years ago. More of them are classic style than newer stuff, though I've spotted a consumer Rebel and an N75 recently. Today I was buying film at Calumet and they had a mint F3 HP with motor winder and a slow zoom lens - for over $400! I've had to start buying cameras in thrift stores, the days of the SRT with 50/1.4 lens for $11 are gone. At least the thrift store recently yielded a Pantax H3 with lens for $10 and a Minolta XG-M with lens for $15.</p>

<p>I think that though this makes it harder to expand our collections, it's a good thing for the market. In addition to keeping the film selling, I think it would be great if a used camera in good condition were worth more than the cost to CLA a used camera. Right now there are a lot of cameras not getting serviced because it's cheaper to replace than repair them, which takes the cameras out of circulation, makes it less profitable to be a camera repair pro, and reduces the number of actual working cameras to choose from. If prices go up another $10 or $20 I bet that will make more people want to have old cameras serviced, and maybe some of the Ebay resellers will eventually be able to improve their profit margins by CLA'ing cameras instead of selling them "as is".</p>

<p>BTW, I'm 30 and I shoot a lot of film, but my father only shoots digital and thinks it's awesome that he "edits" his photos on the computer (by pressing the Auto Levels and sharpening buttons). Meanwhile I'm thinking about using a community darkroom to print B&W.</p>

<p>Young people grooving with film cameras has been a 'happening thing' in Japan for some time already. Check this site, http://www.japanexposures.com/, then scroll down until you see John Sypal's "Tokyo Camera Style."</p>

<p>Well, I am 14 and I shoot with classic cameras. Believe it or not, I shot my dad's AE-1 Program at age 10. I just love film. I don't own a digital camera, and I don't intend to.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Is there something new happening here or is this just wishful thinking on my part?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There isn't any hard data in this thread, but it's out there.<br>

<br /> Fujifilm says film sales dropped 42% in the most recent quarter ending June 30.</p>

<p>Kodak says film sales dropped 28% in the most recent quarter ending June 30.<br>

<br /> Gear prices and casual neighborhood observations are not reliable sources.</p>

<p>I feel like the younger people are going for the older SLR cameras is absolutely true. Heck, I am 17 and I started using my fathers' Olympus OM-10 when I was about 15. I have been hooked on photography my entire life though. I just recently got my first two SLR cameras. I think that more and more kids want to know more about "digital-less" photography, and how to manipulate photos to have different effects. The High (secondary) schools might have a roll in this too. I am going to be taking a Photography and Illustration class in my schools art department. <br>

I think that this is good for the future in photography.</p>

Film sales will drop even if more people do use film cameras, because those that are using them are not using them for snapshots, but are taking photography somewhat seriously. Meaning fewer shutter presses. (I am over and over again hearing that students should use film because then they will put more care into each shot. Fewer shutter presses per unit time.)

 

As for eBay prices, I'm not sure the anecdotal evidence here is valid. I have just recently bought a perfect OM-1 for $49 (with lens), and several other cameras for even less, all functioning well. In fact, cameras in roughly 1975 - 1995 period are ridiculously cheap. It's the pre-1970 and pre-1960 cameras that tend to cost much more, but these are mostly for collectors, not shooters.

 

I should mention, though, since we are collecting anecdotal evidence, that I just bought on eBay a functioning 1936 Kine Exakta for something like $85.

 

--Marc

<blockquote>

<p>because those that are using them are not using them for snapshots, but are taking photography somewhat seriously. Meaning fewer shutter presses</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> Any statistics on that? I don't mean to be a pain here, but it seems that this is all about "feelings" and not much about facts.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Fujifilm says film sales dropped 42% in the most recent quarter ending June 30. Kodak says film sales dropped 28% in the most recent quarter ending June 30.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes but pretty much<em> every</em> consumer good has dropped in sales at least that much the past year! You fail to quote the huge drop in digital camera sales as well; so much so that Canon actually had to lay off workers for the first time ever. Anecdotal Evidence isn't reliable when you load the dice either.....</p>