Leica M8: Ethical? Waterproof? And other questions

<p>Here ya go Rob... Click on the picture, then 'all sizes' to get to a larger version<br /> <a title="Untitled by Chaospress, on Flickr" href=" src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3436920449_c10bce6467_o.jpg" alt="" /></a><br /> M8 w/ 21 Asph</p>

<p>Hey Ray Nice. </p>

<p>In 1982 I took an M4 and went up to Inner Mongolia. A friend was travelling with me. I was so poor I could only afford one 35mm.<br /> <br /> We wanted to go to a Monastery off the beaten track, and the only people who knew how to go there was the army. They told us that the road leading to the monastery had collapsed and the only way to go there was driving along a dry river bed. Having come such a long way for this venture, we decided to take it, figuring that we might not be back for at least ten years. A soldier took us on a jeep which did not seem to have any shock absorbers.<br /> <br /> It was the most bumpy ride of my life, and the M4 was on top of a flat surface right in front of me, camera back facing down. I watched it the whole trip and it was shaking and bumping almost non-stop throughout. It never occurred to me to hold it in my hands to absorb some of the shock. It took the beating far better than I did. The slides I got were perfect (as far as the camera's role is concerned). I've since owned M3, M2, M6 and M7. And not one range finder was out of whack. So it's a real shocker to learn that the M8.2's range finder is so fragile. What's going on?</p>

<p>Here is my most important suggestion, Alex. Don't go into hoc to get an M8. Selling / pawning your other stuff is going to make you miserable. If you want to go digital and use Leica lenses, get a Panasonic G-1 or the new Olympus micro four-thirds Pen. If you want to digitalize your Leica film shots, get a good dedicated scanner. </p>

<p>The M8 is not water proof. It is not rugged. You have to baby it. If you have to make sacrifices to get it, the M8 is not ethical. </p>

<p>I am an avid M8 user. But if had had to sell off my film Leicas to get it I would not get it. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>You have to baby it.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>No, you need to take care of it. My M8 travels in my Tumi nylon briefcase in the overhead compartment. I put the camera and one lens into a small padded camera case, and that goes into the briefcase. If you put a camera into a checked piece of baggage - you have NO idea what has happened to the bag. </p>

<p>Checked baggage gets: thrown, tossed, dropped, bumped, bashed, jammed in baggage conveyors, pushed with diverters, etc. It is not uncommon for bags to drop 1-2 feet or more between conveyor systems. Baggage handlers are the type of people who can easily break a cannon ball with a sponge - I've seen them at work in baggage makeup and sorting areas in at least 20 different airports.</p>

<p>If you put you camera in checked baggage - you get whatever comes out the other end - that's not a camera problem.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I agree with Steve, any damage to a camera that was in checked baggage is not the camera's fault. My brother made the mistake of putting a 300mm Nikkor attached to a camera (Nikkormat FTN) in checked baggage. What came out at the other end resembled a camera but was in multiple pieces. The lens is still usable but with scratches on the front element. The lens mount was torn off the camera body.</p>

<p>Just bought an M8 (minty used), $1,000 less for what they go for, just could not resist. So far no regrets re the camera, although there are downsides compared to a D700 (ISO 3200 etc etc). Put my D-Lux on the block :( Alex is right, makes you miserable. Put my M4 up for sale, too, but I think I'll reverse that decision and keep it another 40 years ...it's a a 1969 model, I am 1972.. :) <br>

If you REALLY want it, save up for it and get it in a few months and keep your other stuff. But I agree it seems to be not a lifetime investment.</p>

<p>Happy shooting.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Love my M8. But if you want a lifetime investment, get an MP, M6, etc. At least there, you are dealing with a mature product that doesn't rely on electronics to function.<br>

Buying any digital camera and expecting it to last a lifetime is not terribly different from buying a new computer and expecting it last a lifetime.</p>

 

<p>Could someone expand on the Panasonic g-1, Olympus pen option? I did a little research but not much. They take M series lenses? With an adapter?</p>

<p>This is some great input. While I agree that I may have a bit of regret after selling my gear, if I do, what really makes me miserable right now is having so much gear. I want to have the simplest, smallest gear possible without sacrificing quality. Plus, Its not like I'm selling absolute top of the line gear, I don't have any leicas at the moment. I'd be ditching: Canon 100mm 2.8, 17-40mm 4.0 L, 50mm 1.4, Zeiss 35mm 2.0 (well, that last one is top of the line). As well as hassy 150mm 4.0, digital rebel body and film rebel body. Film prices are really starting to kick my butt, and I don't have as much time to work the scans. And, would an m6/7 2 lenses and a $1100 film scanner be that much less?</p>

 

> And, would an m6/7 2 lenses and a $1100 film scanner be that much less?

 

* M6 + film scanner: *quite* a bit less than an M8;

 

* Lenses: a 35 + 50 ZM combo for the M6 is a bit cheaper than a 28 + 35 combo for the M8 (since you need to consider the M8's 1.3x crop factor). Your mileage may vary with other combinations;

 

* Film costs: the price to pay for experiencing the timeless Leica feeling... :-))

 

But you might as well just buy that M8 and go for it... only you can find out how it will work for you. I just think that (based on my own experience) knowing for sure that this will be the last time you buy a specific item in your life is very... ambitious.

<p>i just wanted to point out the rd1 has been revived and recently released as the rd1x, sold brand new in japan only.</p>

 

<p>I don't want to offend anyone, but in my experience and opinion the RD-1 isn't really comparable. On the plus side, it is a LOT less expensive. On the other hand, the VF/RF isn't in the same league, and the RF is subject to going out of calibration with the most minor provocation (I became pretty adept at recalibrating it but it takes time, a steady work surface and a good target at infinity). The raw files are good but they are not in the same league with the M8 files, even allowing for issues like the IR factor on the M8. Of course, the cost difference is huge...</p>

<p>Alex et al:</p>

<p>Your questions are spot-on in regards to the question of "going digital." I too have gone through this, having resisted giving up film for many years.</p>

<p>I currently use a Leica M7, a Leica M8, a Lumix G1, a Leica R8 and a Bessa L. Since getting the G1, I am sad to say I have basically given up on film for the most part. I have adapters for the M and R Leica lenses I have for the G1, and they work quite well. It's not that film is better or worse. It is the ease of working with digital, going out to shoot with one or two cameras and a couple of lenses. When I get back I am able to work on the pictures at my convenience, right away if I want. My latest photobook is 11" x 13", and at that size I can see no difference between the M8 and the G1 for quality. The G1 works well in manual mode with a Leica lens on, and adapters are available for many camera types.</p>

<p>List here of adapters: <a href="http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dx428wg_10fdvsmtd7">http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dx428wg_10fdvsmtd7</a></p>

<p>The one thing that has been a disappointment for me on the G1 is it is a little slow to shoot. The startup time from cold, or even power save, is noticeable and sometimes a pain. But the worst thing is the 1 second hesitation between continuous shots while the viewfinder is frozen on the shot just taken. In other words, when shooting in continous mode, the finder is not useable! It also has trouble getting a focussing lock in dim light where the built-in focussing light is not adequete. The focussing itself seems pretty good most of the time.</p>

<p>The M8 does shoot about 1 shot per second, which is also slow but at least I can still follow the action in the viewfinder window. The M8 plugs up after 7 shots (raw + jpeg) so it is a pain too, as I have to wait while it saves to the card.</p>

<p>The other thing about the G1 is it has no system. About all you can buy is the extra telephoto lens, extra battery and case. Optex sells a battery for the G1 which is about 1/3 the price of Panasonic, the camera is battery hungry and so I use 3 batteries as a minimum.</p>

<p>Changing systems is a big thing, and I understand why anyone is nervous about doing it. Each camera requires cards (I use Sandisk Ducati Extreme III, 2 at 100 bucks each for each camera) and extra batteries. Plus digital photography does seem to open up whole new worlds for some reason.</p>

<p>But I still have film in the fridge, and my M7 is still used from time to time, mostly for old times sake though I must admit.</p>

<p>Good luck with you decision.</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

<p>Since you have some Canon gear already and you want to keep it simple you might consider the Canon 50D which is high quality and reasonably priced. Keep a couple prime lenses similar to what you had in mind for the Leica and unload everything else. The Canon 50D with a short prime is not all that big and it will provide you with great pictures for quite a long time. I figure after the deal has been completed you should come out in good shape financially.</p>

<p>OK, I figured out how to turn off the image preview during continuous shooting. So now I won't be confusing anyone. Cheers.</p>

<p>To the OP - you might consider that in order to get the best from the M8, shooting RAW is necessary. I'm told the jpg files do not by any means reflect the image quality the camera is capable of. If you want / need to shoot jpg you might reconsider.</p>

<p>I believe this came from one person only. Perhaps he has a problem with his eyes or his jpeg viewer. I have shot thousands of jpegs with my M8. They do not appear to be any different than the DNG files that I had at the same time, or photos with my G1. As far as I can see, the jpeg file is fine.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Do we concur that the M8 is indeed a lifelong investment?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Heck no. Try finding new batteries for it in a few years or ten. Brother, it ain't AA cells...</p>

<p>Pick up a nice used M6, and maybe a couple Nikon scanners. 135 film (B&W specifically) will be with us a long, long time. When Fuji and Kodak gets out of the game, chances are good that boutique manufacturers will pick up the left over market.</p>

<p>Alex,<br>

I can't afford an M8 and it sounds like you can't either. No shame or guilt in that. The Oly EP-1 looks like a winner but no VF was the deal breaker for me. There will be other offerings coming in micro 4/3 so I am just going to wait and see what happens. Digital cameras have a life span akin to a house fly and are not a lifetime deal. I still have a few Leica lenses and Leitz did and does make some of the best in the world. However, the crop factor makes it an expensive proposition to go wide on digital with Leitz lenses. Leica recognition? If you are not using CanNikon today...well you are just not with it. :-) Leica is not that well known today. If you want a fairly compact, durable, weather resistant no guilt DSLR get a Pentax K200D with the new weather resistant kit lens. It will set you back about $650 for the package. If you are still stuck on an M8 rent one for a bit. In the end it is a personal decision as to what works best for you.</p>

 

<p>As for the checked luggage thing, I've had a mini-DV tape smashed in my checked luggage. It was in its plastic case. At the bottom of the suitcase. Under 2 weeks worth of clothes. Against the rigid back of the suitcase. Surrounded by rigid sides. Something somewhat pointed must have struck the suitcase on the lid and had the force to push through all the clothes and strike the cassette case hard enough to shatter the case and smash the tape within. Luckily it was a blank tape, but after seeing that, I have never checked anything of value no matter how well padded. These guys have god-like powers that defy physics to destroy items in luggage.</p>

<p>@rob s,</p>

<p>Suggesting a 50D in lieu of the M8.2 makes zero sense, they're apples and organges. For example, even with a smaller lens, the 50D is huge compared to the M8.2 - the size of a human head - and draws much more attention to the photographer.</p>

<p>I just sold my 50D w/battery grip, 24-105L f/4 IS, 17-55 IS EF-S, 70-200L f/2.8 IS, and 50mm f/1.8 and bought the M8.2, 28mm f/2.8, 50mm f/2, and 90mm f/2. And what a vast improvement the Leica is over the Canon, for me!</p>

<p>I'm not shooting sports nor wildlife, so the Leica is far superior for my applications. It's small and unobtrusive (I put black electrical tape over the Leica dot and 'M8' label; my Leicatime leather half-case and Thumbs-Up 3 cover the lettering on the back), and I can carry the camera on my Blackrapid RS-1 strap with a lens mounted, and my two other lenses in my pockets, along with cleaning gear. No camera bag, no lower-back strain!</p>

<p>The 50D and other dSLRs have their uses, and the Leicas have their uses. I can tell you that I've learned more in the last 3 weeks since switching to the Leica than I have in the past 5 years (20D, 30D, then 50D) with Canon dSLRs.</p>