exposure question w/d300 and 70-200mm 2.8 lens

Hi All -

 

Im shooting a 12U baseball tournament local to me and Im having an issue on some of my images.

 

Ive got my lens focused on the batter, Im waiting for him to step into the pitch before I hit the shutter and I

get two images that look like this and Im not sure why....any help is appreciated because its starting to really

bug me.

 

This doesnt happen all the time but often enough - and at the worst times too...like when I have the ball on the

bat...ARGH!!!

here is the second shot...

Sorry I hit submit to fast....

 

I thought part of my problem was beyond the batter....the glare from the backround...so in these shots I eliminated then and kept the red backstop..but it still didnt eliminate the issue. Could it be the glare from the sand/dirt?

 

Thanks again

I'm not sure what you're asking but I'll toss out some tips. While most sports shots work in the pertrait orientation batters do not. Try shooting holding the camera in the landscape orientation to include the catcher. Set the shutter to fire in continuous mode.

 

If the glare on the plate is the thing you're addressing then fix it in post-processing using color control points in something like Nikon's Capture NX. You could also try using a polarizing filter but you will loose two stops of light.

 

Here are a couple of my shots that may give you some composition ideas:

 

<img src="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/mharris660/Bball.jpg">

 

<img src="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f158/mharris660/Bball2.jpg">

 

There are more in my portfolio, hope that helps.

If you do not have bracketing activation set?

 

and

shoting in Single picture mode (that is one shutter activation one picture taken)

your camera may have some rare problem of doing this sometimes.

 

I have quite often the same problem with D200. Getting sometimes 2 pictures instead of 1 is annoying when you only expect one, but I got used to it since both pictures are of same good quality. I do not see any bracketing effect, even though I made sure was not active

 

I think this D200 firmware problem was not fixed in D300 yet. Possibly it will go away with next upgrade?

Anthony, first I would check to make sure your camera is not in AEB (auto-exposure bracketing). Next you might experiment with other metering modes available on your camera.

 

Normally I will set my camera pattern/matrix metering. I shoot baseball with the apeture as wide open as possible and the camera set to apeture priority (Av). I also shoot all my images in RAW format to help process photos that may lack perfect exposure. The two photos you posted look like they should be correctible to a proper exposure from a RAW format.

 

Most important... shoot baseball games as often as possible. Like any other skill, practice is the best path to improving your skill as well as getting to completely understanding your gear.

Anthony - The exposure appears quite different in your two posts. Maybe bracketing is set.

I agree, shoot horizontal to include the catcher, aperture priority, continuous AF and 'S' shooting mode.

Shot 1 is at 1/1000th and shot 2 is at 1/250th, both at f/2.8. Looks like exposure bracketing is set. Keep practising your shot timing - you will hit the ball. Don't use continuous shooting if you want to capture the ball in the image - in the gap between shots the ball moves a long, long way, and you've lost control over shot timing.

I`d reckon Mark U hit the nail on the head . . . It`s Av within a Auto Exposure Bracket.

 

You`ve gotta use one shot, and time it.

 

 

FYI:

 

http://www.photo.net/sports-photography-forum/00PsdI

 

 

 

 

WW

Sorry, Frank, Terry et al . . . I looked at the EXIF data and only noticed the last answer (Mark`s) as I was writing: not realizing you guys had already mentioned AEB.

 

WW

I looked at the meta data on your two images I have a good idea as to what happened on your exposure. You were

Automatic with an ISO 200 in spot metering mode. So when the batter swung he change position your spot meter read

another section of the image and compensated. This is why your first exposure is f/2.8 at 1/1000 then it dropped to f/2.8 at

1/250. � Spot: Meters approx. 3 mm dia. circle (about 2.0% of frame) centered on selected focus point. You would have

been better to shoot at 3D Color Matrix Metering II; color matrix metering II; color matrix metering. which would have read

the whole seen and averaged the exposure.<div></div>

Ralph:

 

I too noted that the camera was in spot meter mode.

 

However, I do not conclude that being in spot meter mode was the most likely cause for the two different exposures: even though the bat swung through that area, and momentarily could have been in the spot measure, that would have been for a split second only; which is quite apparent as the two frames are coincident, in a single spread.

 

I think your conclusion would be more likely correct if the batter had moved his hips through that spot field.

 

Please see below:

 

WW<div></div>

I was NOT implying that we should necessarily leave the meter in the Spot Mode . . .

 

But more importantly, I suggest using Manual Exposure rather than Av, for most sports shots like the ones indicated.

 

WW

Where would his hands and bat be during the swing cameras don't react instantly it would be a step behind and 6 fps his

swing would come close that center point. I I did a similar cross hair too. I might buy the bracketing if 1/3 f/stop or 1

f/stop but two full f/stops that is much.

 

I shot a lot of sports I let the environment decide how meter to get the results I want. To give a simple example, if I am

shooting action at a baseball game I will be most likely shooting with the program mode set to f/2.8 or on Aperture

priority at f/2.8. Why? Because by the dugouts or home plate can be in shade but the outfield may not. That can be a

two f/stop difference. If the lighting is consistent like an arena for hockey or basketball I will use a manual setting.

 

I do not have a master set of rules that dictate my style. To give you an idea if I shoot in the Save Mart arena PBR, or

Basketball I will set my exposure manually. Why because the main light sources do not change intensity while shooting.

If I am shooting an Oakland Raiders Game or Grizzlies Baseball game, I might shoot with aperture priority or with a vari-

program. Because the the light source is not consistent. Oakland is famous for a shadow that cuts across the field

around 4pm. It is nicknamed the shadow of death. Baseball at night the infield can be a full f/stop different.<div></div>

Ralph:

 

Thanks for coming back. Yep I though about how long the spot metering would take to `react`: and also the amount

of time the spot area was `occupied`. hence my comment regarding the batter`s hips.

 

I find this all very interesting. (I would like to know the answer).

 

Re the bracketing at two stops . . . my thinking was that if it has been set, (by mistake), it might not have been

noticed if set at plus and minus two stops. I am not intimately familiar with the D300, but I guessed that the AEB

limit is plus and minus 2 stops, and the visual display of that might be glossed over without noticing (as it is at the

extremes).

 

The answer lies in the third shot of the bracket, if there was AEB, doesn't it?

 

I had hoped Anthony would have chimed in again, by this time.

 

***

 

In regards to my comment: `I suggest using Manual Exposure rather than Av, for most sports shots like the ones

indicated.`

 

I was specifically referring to the fact that the original post was focusing on the batter over the plate and I took the

sentences in the original question to mean that the photographer specifically wanted The Shots of the Batter Hitting

the Ball, rather than `coverage` of the whole game, per se (i.e. whole field).

 

In this case I was suggesting using manual exposure. I should have been more articulate. I was not suggesting that

technical settings (or the camera) should dictate style (or anything else).

 

I am very much for the photographer controlling the camera and using the technologies as necessary and when

appropriate.

 

***

 

Regarding sports: I now shoot a lot of Swimming and (field) Hockey. Swimming is mainly indoors and I am blessed

with (usually) full or near full TV lighting.

 

But Hockey is a Winter Sport here, and the games I cover are often played early in the morning (0800 to 1100). In

the two Olympic arenas where I am most often, there can be 3 or even 4 stops difference from sunlight to dark

shadow thrown from the Grandstand . . . Av and Pattern makes entire sense, sometimes. . . though spot meter and

AE lock is useful, sometimes, too.

 

Just like you stated, I do not have a master set of rules that dictate.

 

I hope Anthony comes back with a answers a few to the questions posed. . . I would like to know what actually

happened.

 

WW

 

PS: your D3 really shines in low light and I really like the baseball shot: I like the low camera viewpoint, especially.

Hi All -

 

Im sorry for the late reply to this , I hope you see this because I learned alot from this thread.

 

 

With the d300 it is somewhat easy to turn on bracketing by mistake, ive done it twice since this thread already. However

I wasnt bracketing this time and it looks like you guys nailed it for me i.e the spot metering vs matrix metering - rookie

mistake : (

 

I did take some of the other suggestions to heart...I went to horizontal batting shots most of the time. Because of a

combination of where I was able to be during the game and how far back the catcher was in the box I wasnt able to get

tight shots like Michael posted above. I did move behind the backstop and shoot through the fence and I was surprised

how well they came out.

 

I also learned how to time the swings better and not reley on the spray n pray either....great tip there!!! Thanks

 

 

One other thing I noticed is parents of kids with their name on the back of their uniform like tight verticle shots from the

back while their son/daughter as at bat on base or playing their position.

 

Thanks again to everyone for their time, comments and suggestions and Im sorry for such a late response.

 

Anthony

> I hope you see this <

 

yes, thank you:

 

mystery solved !

 

WW

To eliminate problem posted by OP, I'd suggest shooting in manual exposure mode in such situation, particularly where location and lighting don't change (batting takes place at home plate, you're shooting from same location, and light condition seems constant.) This way you take all the guess work out of the equation.

<p>He's a question then: If one uses aperture priority, and the camera adjusts the film speed accordingly, do you not run the risk of dropping down to a speed that is too slow to freeze the motion if the action passed into an area of poor light? Would it not be better to go shutter priority of say 1/800, and let the camera adjust the aperture? In AP can you set the D300 to, say, not go below 1/800 anyway. Is this set in ISO settings?</p>

<p ><strong ><em >“If one uses aperture priority . . . do you not run the risk of dropping down to a speed that is too slow to freeze the motion if the action passed into an area of poor light?”</em></strong><strong ><em ></em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p >Yes there is a risk. When using Aperture Priority Mode, the Shutter Speed needs to be noted and monitored. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I rarely use Av Mode for sports, but you will find those that do, and who are good, <em >know the Shutter Speeds which are necessary to use and know that they will be safe using Aperture Priority and / or adjust accordingly.</em></p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p >As an <strong ><em >hypothetical example</em></strong> based on your question and on Ralph’s answer in this thread, above: </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Ralph wrote “<em >if I am shooting action at a baseball game I will be most likely shooting with the program mode set to f/2.8 or on Aperture priority at f/2.8. Why? Because by the dugouts or home plate can be in shade but the outfield may not. That can be a two f/stop difference.”</em></p>

<p ><em > </em></p>

<p ><strong ><em >I am not answering for Ralph</em></strong> - but any experienced Photographer <strong ><em >would do something like this</em></strong>, taking one example, on a bright day with a bit of cloud cover but little cloud movement:</p>

<p > </p>

<p >1. Takes a meter reading of a subject on the field (in sun) and records 1/800s @ F 8 @ ISO 800 </p>

<p > </p>

<p >2. Take a meter reading in the Dugout / Home Plate, (in shadow) and records 1/200s @ F8 @ ISO 800. (= 1/800s @ F4 @ ISO 800)</p>

<p > </p>

<p >That is two stops difference, as mentioned.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Now suppose 1/800s is the minimum shutter speed required to freeze the fastest action for this sport.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Having recorded the two extreme readings, if the Photographer set Aperture Priority to Av = F/2.8 he will be assured that in the sun he will pull 1/6400s and in the shade he will pull 1/1600s <strong ><em >and he will keep the lovely shallow DoF he wants to focus the sports action. </em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >Moreover <strong ><em >he has a buffer of one full stop of shutter speed</em></strong> for any shot he pulls in the shade, should the EV drop if there is a cloud movement or density change.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >The Photographer’s main priority is then to follow the action and capture the shot knowing that the Shutter speed is always safe <strong ><em >and the DoF will always be tight, </em></strong>so he is free to watch the action compose the shots and time the shots, leaving the camera to look after the exposure.<strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p >And an experienced photographer would be always watching the exposure parameters and reacting to any cloud change. </p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em > ***</em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em >“Would it not be better to go shutter priority of say 1/800s, and let the camera adjust the aperture?” </em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Well, IMO, this is the main reason why Shutter Priority <strong ><em >is not often used </em></strong>. . . let’s take the same example as above and let’s Shutter Priority to Tv = 1/800s. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >In the sunny area we would be pulling 1/800s @ F/8 @ ISO800 </p>

<p > </p>

<p >In the shady area we will be pulling 1/800s @ F/4 @ ISO800</p>

<p > </p>

<p >The D300 is an APS-C camera and, in the original question a 70 to 200 zoom was being used.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Now I do not shoot Baseball, so please let’s not nit pick on Shooting Distances as I am guessing a little ... but let’s assume the action is 60ft away and the zoom is at 200mm and shooting vertical format</p>

<p > </p>

<p >In the sunny area the DoF will be about 9ft (using F/8) and in the shady area the DoF will be about 4’6” (using F/4)</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I would not be that keen to have 9ft DoF for a tight action sports shot, but maybe it is OK in this circumstance, so let’s assume that is acceptable . . . </p>

<p > </p>

<p >But the kicker is . . . let’s say the clouds disperse a little and the EV opens up only <strong ><em >one third of a stop brighter</em></strong>, and the action moves only 20ft closer, to a 40ft Shooting distance, and we need to reframe to horizontal format and thus we zoom to 100mm, so now we are pulling F/9 @ 1/800s @ ISO800 <strong ><em >and we have a DoF of around 20ft! </em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >However, in the same circumstance, if the photographer were using Aperture Priority set at Av = F2.8 for that shot at SD = 40Ft and FL = 100mm, we would pull: F2.8 @ 1/8000s @ ISO800 <strong ><em >and have a DoF of 5’6”</em></strong>. and thus keeping a nice tight DoF sports image.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Does that make sense?</p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p >There may not be many reading this thread now: if you want other’s views on this question you might be best starting a new thread with it.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

 

<p>Thanks William. I understand all that. Its of great use. Thanks.</p>