Nazi Leica

<p>So I went to a private Leica store in Seoul, South Korea and came across this Leica. I thought I'd share it with all you enthusiasts. I'm guessing its rare.</p>

<p>I hope I'm able to add the image</p><div></div>

<p>Ugly Russian fake.</p>

<p>Agree w/Roland</p>

<p>A friend saw 100s like this for sale in Moscow. Caveat emptor!</p>

<p>Fake Leica, sorry.</p>

<p>Worth about $25, unless you try to bring it in into Germany, in which case you'll probably wind up in jail.<br /> Disgusting, really.</p>

<p>Love the faux wood grain. A Nazi trade secret?!</p>

<p>sorry about the lame post. knowing nothing about leica... except that i'd love to have an MP and M7, i thought this might be of interest to you guys. </p>

<p>i guess i had better stick to medium format photography<br>

oh well.... back to dreaming</p>

<p>And the irony is that when the Nazis came to power, the Leitz family, at great risk, hired Jews for Leica and then transferred them out of Germany to Canada under the pretext that their skills were needed at their Canadian factory.</p>

<p><em>"in which case you'll probably wind up in jail"</em></p>

<p>don't be too sure. Found this 2 months ago on a German flea market. Lots of fake but some real stuff as well. There is still a thriving market for stuff like this.</p><div></div>

<p>Asim;it's not a "lame" post. You see a lot of this faked Nazi Leica stuff,and it's mostly worthless Russian junk. Most World War 2 German military cameras were regular Leica camera's. No special markings.</p>

<p>An mp is a really good manual camera,but if you like some automation,then the m7 would be your best choice.</p>

<p>You do not automatically end up in jail in Germany if you show or carry Nazi symbols.<br>

Showing or distributing Nazi symbols is legal if you do this rather for historical reasons. If there is a Nazi sign on a (probably or supposed-to-be) item of that age it will be legal to show or sell it. If there is a Nazi design on a newly-made item, this is supposed to be. Sometimes you will find Nazi books from the 1930s and 1940s on fleamarkets, selling this is legal. But new literature with Nazi content, of course, is prohibited, as well as selling any newly-made items with Nazi signs.<br>

Selling Hitler's own books in Germany is NOT prohibited because of the Nazi content but because the State of Bavaria is owner of the copyright and does not allow selling any copies of Hitler's works in Germany.<br>

Anyhow, I cannot understand why people try to own fake Nazi items such as these Leicas unless they are more or less secret admirers of the Nazis.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Pity this one is not gold plated :-)</p>

<p>Benny Spinoza , May 28, 2009; 02:41 p.m. " And the irony is that when the Nazis came to power, the Leitz family, at great risk, hired Jews for Leica and then transferred them out of Germany to <b>Canada</b> under the pretext that their skills were needed at their Canadian factory."<br>

Benny, I was under the impression they mainly went to the US and E. Leitz, NY.<br>

 </p>

<P>Sorry I am slow today. It took me a moment to realize it was not Ernst Leitz Canada (ELCAN) at Midland, Ontario since that was established in 1952. The went to the US and some worked at E. Leitz, NY. Others, didn't even work for Leitz upon arrival. </P>

<P> </P>

<p>Does anyone know if there were any genuine Leica cameras marked this way?</p>

<p>No real Leica left the factory with engravings like that. They all left the factory in standard issue and the ones used for miltary purposes were checked first by army officials and if they past the quality control they got what they called a Waffen-Amt. This Waffen-amt consists out of an eagle (before 1936 without swastika) and the word "Amt" and a 3 number combination that was used to identify the department who checked it. The stamp is very small, usually not larger than about 1 cm and might be even an ink stamp rather then really stamped in the metal (with such fragile equipment like a camera I suspect it would rather be an ink stamp then a metal stamp). Some Leica's have the "Luftwaffe Eigentum" stamp if they were used by the airforce and I suspect that there are versions with "Kriegsmarine Eigentum" and "Heer Eigentum" too. Elaborate eagles are a clear sign of fake, certainly because they all use the wrong type of eagle (they use a political eagle which was only allowed for the official Nazi-party).</p>

<p>These items are only made because there are still people willing to pay a lot of money for items like that. I've been a gasmask collector for almost 17 years now and regularly attend militaria fairs, I can say there is a vivid interest in stuff like that. Some people are just collecting stuff because they look nice (face it, the nazi's had the coolest uniforms in the war) but many others collect it because they admire the fasist ideas. It's a sad thing but on the other hand it helps preserving stuff from a grimm past that might otherwise be lost. I too have gasmasks with swastika's on them but for me they are just a part of the collection and they sit comfortable right next to their British and American brothers. And while the display of swastika is forbidden in most european countries (because it can be shocking for some people) the fairs that sell stuff like this are allowed because you know what you expected to see if you go to one.</p>

<p>How much is it worth? About 5 Reichmarks...</p>

<p>Since Ebay started there have been these gems/fakes on Ebay; made from Zorkis or Feds.<br /> <br /> The are worth what another will pay for them.<br /> <br /> Over the years the craftsman change their weird jokes; once one had engravings with German Generals; dates. Paints; chroming; coverings vary alot.<br /> <br /> Some old retired tooling craftsman in the Ukraine probably doubles his income making a few of these conversions each month; and thus has some more money for food or a beer.<br /> <br /> There are probably many many thousands of variants of converted Zorkis and Feds.<br /> <br /> *****Most all do NOT show the camera body with the lens off; thus one would see the Russian piE or finger cam; instead of a REAL Leica roller cam.<br /> <br /> ****Having a roller cam is also NOT a tell tale foolproof thing that a Leica is real; in a rare few cases the crafty retired chaps have used a real roller cam; thus in these aucctions there may be a peek of this region; to sucker in the assuming types. Thus a 5 to 10 buck body with detailing; engraving; maybe some weird WW2 stuff added; and a visble roller cam can make a body go for many hundreds. Its is like fishing; stuff is added as a lure.<br /> <br /> As a user camera these painted/modified cameras sometimes have paint on the inside brass contact; that goes from the shutter area to the cameras pc socket. One can pop the cover and remove paint and the flash contact usually then works well.<br /> <br /> For lenses; collapable Industar I-22 and I-50's are typically used; a new trim ring with Leica engravings and new cap is used; or a modified old one.<br /> <br /> For cases; often a Zorki or Fed case is used; the nose is restamped.<br /> <br /> I am always surprised that many folks "fall" for these cameras as being the real McCoy; since there are so many variants floating around, They were even around before Ebay; but in lessor numbers.<br /> <br /> The paint jobs on these retired chaps "creations" can vary widely. Here I have a black Zorki 3C I bought off of Ebay about 13 years ago an it is just treated more like a instamatic or disposable; and most all the paint is in decent shape; but the yellowed in "Zorki 3C" in Russian is 1/3 gone. I paid about 20 bucks extra for this custom black body; it was something like 30 bucks versus 10 dollars.</p>

<p>The more "Elvis velvet" looking an item is; the greater chance it is a fake. Most 99.999 percent are.<br>

The first on I saw was at a camera show swap meet; about 3 decades ago.</p>

<p>it's easy to be snobby about faux leica's but if you don't blow the bank on them, i think they're a good buy (sans nazi markings.)</p>

<p>think about it. what would you pay for a leica III from the 30's? how likely is it the shutter wasn't swiss cheese? the russian faux leicas were made with 1960's fed's and refurbished in the 1990's. so the camera is newer and usually in better mechanical shape than you're going to find a real leica III. </p>

<p>i bought one myself and it's mechanically sound and optically good too (in terms of condition.) i could mount a leitz lens to this body and have all the same stuff as a III for less money and less repair bills. i know the russian copies are not up to the same quality standards but these cameras are fine for someone who wants to get into leica screw mount without spending alot. i mean, who's going to be able to tell the difference between a photo taken with a faux leica body and a real leica lens and a real leica body and lens? </p>

<p>i think it's fun and interesting that these cameras got copied. and were done soo creatively. it's just a shame that some folks have gotten lured into paying leica $$ for them!</p>