Suitable Video camera and sites for pointers

<p>Hello ALL! Need some help. Shooting a wedding this weekend and videographer backed out. Typically not my problem but it is a friends daughter (my fire chief, I am a firefighter). And I am going to try videoing it for him.<br>

What would be a good video camera suitable for this work... on a budget?<br>

Plus, any useful resources for pointers, etc.?<br>

Thank you all - Rod</p>

<p>Ummmm..... are you planning on editing, and so on, too? Or just shooting and handing over a DVD of jiggling and shaking camera? Do you want it to look like it was shot on a pro camera, or just a really good home camera? Do you plan on just catching what sound you can (nearly none) or hooking into the sound system, or carting along your own?</p>

<p>I don't want to start sounding elitist or snobby, but video has some fairly unique requirements and it's amazing how much you learn to NOT do sitting in TV Production classes (and then through real experience). It's too scary to watch people w/ their little handy-cams and know what it's going to look like, and know this is going to be the couple's only video record of the day...<br>

The single biggest thing you can do for yourself is get that camera on a tripod, do not take it off, and do not give them video shot while you're moving around. Have another person running the video camera. It is not a good idea to try and do both yourself in the same day - take this from a couple who DO do both in the same day.<br>

Realize that video requires MORE light than photo for the best results.<br>

The best spot to put the video camera will be at the very back in the center aisle if you don't have a balcony you can get to. If you're only going to have one camera, get a medium to wide angle shot of the ceremony and DONT change it.</p>

<p>For a pro-results without spending a massive amount of $$.... Panasonic 3 chip cameras. They have models from student up to hard-core pro. For a camera more on the level of a handy-cam, sorry - no clue... wait,....BUT Panasonic DOES have very small 3-chip cameras in the handy-cam size. Not quite as good as even the student level pro cameras, but definitely better than "uncle bob".</p>

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<p>Where do I even start :-( You realize, Roderick, that this is tantamount to asking what camera/film/lens to use for a wedding. OK, you're doing them a favor and it's too late to get a real videographer. Let's keep it simple...</p>

<p>(1) Most miniDV cameras will do a very good job optically. The sound is awful by engineering standards, but is what it is. You will probably do as well spending $350 as $2000 at this point in your experience. "AV" mode works best. Set the shutter to 1/30 or 1/60 second at 30 fps.</p>

<p>(2) You don't need a light. DV cameras can work in light too dim to see the controls. On-camera lights blind people and ruin the sense of spontaneity.</p>

<p>(3) Hold the camera as steady as you can (even with image stabilization) and keep the button down for at least 10 seconds (count!) before changing scenes. Zoom between clips, or slowly in or out after holding 5-10 seconds.</p>

<p>(4) Use a tripod for long clips, like the wedding ceremony.</p>

<p>(5) Shoot as much as possible during the reception line. Shots of friends and family greeting the new bride and groom will be their favorite part of the DVD.</p>

<p>(6) Shoot the standard setups - cake serving, garter toss, rice shower. Remember, long clips! Let the still photographer have his space - he has to move around, you don't (the B&G do that for you).</p>

<p>(6) During the reception, seek out groups of people (like you would with a still camera) and have them congratulate the B&G on camera. Again, no clips less than 10 seconds long. A camera light can be useful.</p>

<p>Thank you so very much! And you are right, I will not do both. I have a guy who can shoot stills. I will be doing video. The church has a camera I can use, putting a guy in the sound booth, joystick operated, basically located center isle facing podium. Had thought I would get behind baby grand piano facing other direction (a little off center, one side of choir), and shoot from there.<br>

I recognize that this is a totally unique profession/art form, and take nothing away from that... I am just all they have, and plan to do the best I can to give them as close to professional quality results as possible.<br>

You say, tripod only? No panning? What about telephoto, it sounds as though you are saying capture med field and leave it there? Am I correct in utilizing this setup, combining two cameras front and back?<br>

Thanks so much, please keep it coming!</p>

<p>Again, thank you both! Almost forgot. Yes I am going to edit... again, to the best of my ability. Which will probably be tantamount to trying to use Photoshop in a day. Any advice there?</p>

<p>Agreed completely... use a professional of the videographer or not at all. My question is though... how did they hire a videographer that backed out?!?!</p>

<p>Do you have any recomendations on maker/model miniDV camera?<br>

Thanks - Rod</p>

<p>He actually worked for the fire department... like myself. As of last week, he is nolonger with the department.</p>

<p>Pointers: don't offer to do it. Certainly don't take any money to do it. What non-linear editing app do you intend to use? That may greatly narrow down the camera choice: some only edit DV; others may do HDV; fewer will do AVCHD. An AVCHD requires tremendous computer horsepower to edit in anything like real-time. I would avoid any camcorder that records directly to DVD or as a MPEG2 clip on a hard drive (AVCHD would be MPEG 4 and can be flash or hard drive based). The easiest format to work with is the tried and true mini-DV tape. If you are doing the reception then you WILL need some sort of additional lighting unless you are using anything other than a Sony PD170 (and even that will be grainy without light). A HD camera is going to require even more light. I'm not even going to touch audio. To get anything decent requires at least 2 good wireless microphones (plugging into a sound system can work but is really hit or miss- especially if you don't know what you are doing; or if you do know what you are doing but don't have anything to pad the signal as needed!). I guess that means I touched audio. Here's an audio sampler: http://web.me.com/artzangelink/Site/Movie_2.html</p>

<p>I don't mean to be rude, but I wouldn't undertake this project. Just as there is a reason a professional photographer costs money, there is a reason a professional videographer costs money. I will grant you that is this case they aren't looking for a professional (a professional would not only be contractually bound but would also be VERY concerned about his or her reputation)- but in doing this project you could tarnish YOUR reputation. If you are going to undertake it, I would recommend a Sony mini-DV camera. At least a PD2100. A used one at B&H is $1700 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/303956/Sony_DCRVX2100_DCR_VX2100_3_CCD_Mini.html). Here is the kicker thought, a NEW DSR-250 is only $2000 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/205297-REG/Sony_DSR250_DSR_250_Professional_1_3_DVCAM.html) and that is a GREAT event camcorder. You will need at least one good wireless kit. The least I would consider is this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/324242-REG/Sennheiser_EW112PG2_A_Evolution_G2_100_Series.html However, Lectrosonic's are the best (hands down) but they will run you over a grand. You can probably get away with the on-camera shotgun (especially with a wireless on the groom)- but I might get a pad for it (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68600-REG/Shure_A15AS_A15AS_In_Line_Attenuator.html). You will need one good tripod and head. These are much more cost effective to rent. A good one runs well over $1000 but can be rented for $50. You could rent all this equipment for that matter. But renting or buying, you need to do a dry run ASAP. If you are missing a crucial piece the day off.... you are out of luck! One crucial piece is going to be enough battery power. That might take the DSR250 out of the picture as that will probably run another grand or so.</p>

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<p>Yes I am going to edit... again, to the best of my ability. Which will probably be tantamount to trying to use Photoshop in a day. Any advice there?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ok, this is going to be so loong..... 1) when you have shot & are ready to edit - start a new forum topic (or feel free to email me directly) and we'll talk how to edit. That's too much of a beast to tackle here. (Just out of curiosity, what metro area are you in?) It certainly does belong in the video forum, but I'm not set up for alerts over there.</p>

<p>The reason I say do NOT take the camera off the tripod: stability. <br>

As to panning - don't. Unless you have a really expensive pan head on the tripod and a LOT LOT LOT of practice, the pan WILL be jerky. It will start with a jerk, it will stop with a jerk, and you'll be freaking lucky to keep a consistent speed. <br>

TV 101, Lesson 1, day 1: DO NOT move the camera when the tape is rolling. (YES, this includes zooming!!!!!!!!) Changing your framing while the tape is rolling is an ADVANCED technique, and will make your editing life a living hell.</p>

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<p>Had thought I would get behind baby grand piano facing other direction (a little off center, one side of choir), and shoot from there.<br />.. it sounds as though you are saying capture med field and leave it there? Am I correct in utilizing this setup, combining two cameras front and back?<br /></p>

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<p>Yes, 2 cameras is an excellent idea. I highly recommend popping in at the rehearsal and testing your theory as to being behind the baby grand. HOWEVER, let me tell you our formula which keeps editing easy, and ensures that one camera is getting the shot while the other one is being reframed......<br>

Two cameras, side by side. One wide, one tight. For the most part, leave the wide camera wide & never touch it. The tight camera, you use to get the details. The ring exchange, the kiss, holding hands during ceremony, candle lighting, attendants, goofy kids, etc... "Tight" can mean anything from zoomed in on just hands to full length, but never get too similar to the wide shot. (Cutting from one shot to another that is too similar is disturbing to your viewers). Getting off-axis to try to get a different view sounds like a good idea (great opportunity for a THIRD camera here), BUT somebody will always be in somebody's way, AND you MIGHT miss the shot w/ BOTH cameras, which is a disaster. If they're side by side, you KNOW at least one camera got the shot. (PS, never be re-framing both cameras at the same time. bad bad bad).</p>

<p>A side note I'd expand on in editing.... trying to edit between, around, and with camera movement is a massive headache and does NOT come out as well as one would think. It must be done extremely carefully.</p>

<p>Absolutely leave the camera on the tripod during the reception. YOU can NOT stand still enough to stop shaking the camera around, especially during things like dancing. We leave the camera attached to the tripod for the balance (with legs folded together - monopod style), and to keep the camera from pitching around as we walk around filming, and even join in the dancing while the camera rolls. The tripod can then also be used to hoist the camera above the crowds during the cake cutting, bouquet toss, and so on. The occasional use of the bird's-eye view of dancing is fun, too.</p>

<p>Sorry - chapter 2 is going to have to come tomorrow. I have to be out my door at 7am, and that means not enough sleep for me if I get to sleep in the next 5 min. I'll see you then!</p>

<p>Maria... THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!<br>

I cannot put into words how grateful I am to you for your help! This is EXACTLY what I need. You are so kind to take the time to explain these details. I am just trying to get to a point where I can provide a very nice video of his daughter's wedding... he is in a bind, and I am all he's got... which may not be much, but I will do the best I can!<br>

Thank you so very much - Rod</p>

<p>Ok... moving on to some of the mechanics of shooting. Some I'm going to ignore w/o a direct question, because it could just depend on the camera you choose.<br>

<b>The Camera</b><br>

Do NOT use one that goes straight to DVD. The compression is high enough, your quality is going to be beyond worthless. Your best quality and ez to use and budget friendly is going to be MiniDV. </p>

<p>As to what settings to use - it just depends on the location. If you're not used to the camera, going full auto is probably the best thing to do. If you use manual white balance, you have to remember to change it every location or lighting change. <br>

For aperture and shutter.... no slower than 1/60. Aperture just depends on light. The best thing is to open it up until you see zebra stripes (blown out white highlights) and then back it down until they just disappear - but if the lights are low, and it's the ceiling lights that zebra stripe - who cares. I'm talking about major things, like an alter cloth or the bride's dress.</p>

<p>For the reception, having a camera that has a built in infra-red light is extremely handy, unless they're going to actually have a lot of light (RARE!!!) By shooting b&w using the infrared light, you can get clean, sharp picture without having to have bright lights on top of the camera. This IS something our Panasonic (DVC-30) cameras have, and I love it. Switching between color & b&w filming during the reception also breaks up the monotony of the clips.</p>

<p><b>PRE & POST-ROLL</b><br>

Allow yourself plenty of room around the actual shot you're after. At the beginning of the tape, you need to allow about a full minute for getting up to speed, and to give the computer plenty of pre-roll. For the ceremony, start the cameras at close to the same time, and then DO NOT TOUCH THEM! If you pause, stop, or unplug one camera, you're going to create a HUGE problem for yourself in getting the tape times to sync up for editing.</p>

<p>During the ceremony, and any other time, keep in mind you need your shots to last AT LEAST 10 seconds (I overkill and go for 20 - 25 min) w/o moving, w/o making any adjustments at all for you to safely have enough shot to edit into a clip. This means 2 things - 1) if you have shot ADD you have problems (this comes from ME. Cause I do). 2) If you've set the camera, and something starts to happen, but the shot isn't framed or set just exactly how you want it.... TOO BAD!!! It's better to have the shot w/ poor framing than to miss it entirely, because you're zooming or readjusting the composition.<br>

If you think you're going to use transitions in editing (fade/flash/etc) you need an additional second or two at the front and back end of your clips so you have the space to transition in. Don't get too happy w/ the pause button during the reception.</p>

<p><b>SOUND</b><br>

The best way to get sound is to be able to have XLR inputs into your camera (pricey & worth it). And for YOU to put a wireless on the groom at a minimum. The 2nd best thing, on a budget & with no time, is to run sound from the churches system straight into a camera (assuming they'll mic the preacher & any music). Since they have one there, I think I would (crossing my fingers) trust them to put their sound into their camera and pick up ambient sound with yours - which you probably will not use. My willingness to trust them depends on the church's camera being a DV tape camera. <br>

OH, that reminds me - if the music is on CD, get a copy for yourself. Same thing with important music from the reception (the main dances).</p>

<p>Reception sound - do NOT bother getting greetings from the guests if you do not have an external mic for them to use. If they're just yelling AT the camera, it will be worthless and sound aweful and you won't be able to understand them. Frankly, our most popular coverage has been the NO greetings coverage. The nice thing about a wireless mic - we plug straight into the DJ equipment & send that sound straight to the camera. This means clean audio of toasting, prayers, etc. Also lets me know what the 1st dance song was w/o guessing, so I can put it in the video.</p>

<p><b>What to shoot</b><br>

Details details details. The nice thing about being a photog is - if it makes a good still shot, it will prolly make a great video clip.<br>

Since you're planning on editing..... :D .... Establishing (wide) shots of the outside of your locations. Close ups of the decorations at the church, the guest book, boutonnieres, the unity candle... pretend you're getting background shots for a photo album. The center pieces at the reception. The cake. A long shot of the head table, the DJ's lights,..... There is NO such thing as too many detail shots for your video. Just make sure your focus is good and the clips are no less than 10 seconds long.<br>

Be there for cake cutting. Get the toasts (see sound). Film the entire 1st dance (realizing you won't use it all). Get close ups of their hands holding each other - I do that for father/daughter & mother/son dances too. Shoot feet. Join in the party - do the electric slide (backwards!!!) w/ the camera in hand in the middle of the crowd. Get the guests to bunch up and sing down or up to the camera.<br>

Do not be afraid to get in there. Matt gets right in the middle of the crowd. I tend to stand on the edge and zoom in. Dad stands well back & stays wide.... BORING!!!!!!!!!! Get a mix of wide, close, and tight. Just mix it up and have fun.</p>

<p>Maria,</p>

<p>You have some excellent ideas, and I have a tip for you. Wireless mics can be unreliable, especially in megachurches with big wireless systems, cities with clear channel stations and taxicabs with 40 watt transmitters. I use wireless mics, particularly for the vows, but a stand-alone digital recorder of the sort used for movie sound (q.v., Sound Devices) with a wireless link to the camera. The sound is rock solid (no DV tape dropouts) and easy to sync up in post.</p>

<p>We do have a few other tricks up our sleeves (I don't think Maria gave them ALL away). I always make sure there's a backup plan on the audio - some sort of redundancy to make sure the bases are covered, but for a first time wedding videographer, we didn't want to say you HAVE to buy $1500 of audio equipment to complement the trio of 3 chip cameras you HAVE to have to shoot a wedding! :-) </p>

<p>Best case scenario is that the house system has mics for everybody and a pro running the board so you can pull a hardwire output for your primary sound all mixed down -BUT- if the guy behind the board sucks and keeps kicking feedback through the system, having a good wireless mic on the groom (picking up the bride, groom, and officiant) and a room mic picking up the music and ambient sounds can save your butt!!!</p>

<p>Having multi-channel mics of various brands can be quite helpful and quite expensive. Luckily, I haven't had to change the channel on my 32 channel Samson in over 2 years...</p>

<p>Just like a photo kit, you can spend a fortune gearing up for wedding videography, but with a little bit of planning you can still do a pretty decent job with a basic kit.</p>

<p>Now I'm wondering if p.net needs to add an audio forum...</p>

<p>And then there's the nightmare churches w/ NO clue about their sound system, and all kinds of nasty hums & other assorted noises running through their systems......</p>

<p>Oh, yeah, one more thing...</p>

<p>Edward mentioned DV tape dropouts, so I'll toss my 2 cents in on that.</p>

<p>When DV first hit the street I was waist deep in it. I sold computers at a Mac shop and as I had previous non-linear editing experience (still have a Media 100 coffee mug), I was<i> the</i> video <em>guy</em>. I went to all sorts of Apple training, including Final Cut Pro 1.0 training at Apple's shop in InfoMart in Dallas. Early on, Sony and Canon were running the DV tape at different speeds thru the camera and I was <strong>told</strong> that choosing a speed was only a compatibility issue and that there was no quality difference between the two...</p>

<p>This is only partly true. The quality difference between SP and LP may not be the same on DV as it is on VHS, where analog video image quality is visually lower, but digital IQ is the same. However, the chances of having an audio dropout, timecode break, or video artifact is significantly higher with LP. My first and only Canon camera taught me this the hard way...</p>

<p>I only use LP in a <em>third</em> camera when I'm shooting a catholic ceremony that is likely to run over an hour. Typically I can swap the tapes in my primary cameras during the communion while the 3rd camera is covering my butt.</p>

<p>If the event is somewhere around Socal, (LA, san diego, orange co) I'll shoot for 300$ with a canon xh-a1(pro HD cam) and just give you the tapes or I can burn them to blue ray, dvd, whatever.</p>

<p>Absolutely AWESOME! Maria and Matt, thank you immensely! Beyond that... thank you more than words can describe!!! What wonderful, well thought out, solid advice, you have given me what I need to do a good job and possibly even a GREAT job if all works perfectly. While realizing I will not become a pro in three days, but with my experience in still, and your tutelage, perhaps I can help some people very important to me out. Thank You for your kindness!</p>