Capture NX2 vs LR2 vs ???

<p>Hello all,</p>

<p>First, I've searched the archives and read a good deal of background information on this subject but am hoping for further clarity and looking forward to hearing the advice of the group.</p>

<p>My conversion from film to digital was fairly recent and until now I've shot mainly JPEG and used free software for cataloging my photos. I'm preparing to switch to NEF and to begin learning effective digital darkroom techniques and applying them to my work. My budget is not strictly constrained but for the time being a full copy of PS isn't justified IMO.</p>

<p>Given that, I'd like some good feedback on what I can actually do with NX2 that I can't do with LR2, and vice versa, and what other image processing software might be worth a look as a substitute or addition to either of these. Some specific questions I have are:</p>

<p>- Does NX2 allow for LOCAL alterations within photos, dodging/burning type stuff? (IIRC LR2 does do this).</p>

<p>- Do either of these programs offer layer-type editing options as in PS? (Do any others that I haven't mentioned?)</p>

<p>- Do either offer a wide variety of filtering effects? Gruaduated neutral density, color filters for b&w conversions, etc?</p>

<p>- Is Photoshop Elements or another Adobe product a viable alternative to either of these as a one-step editing solution?</p>

<p>- Does GIMP offer enough sophisticated functionality that between LR2 and GIMP, I could do pretty much everything that I could do with a full copy of PS?</p>

<p>- I am leaning towards LR2 for its cataloging capabilities in addition to editing capabilities. What important features of NX2 will I be missing out on if I go this way?</p>

<p>- Am I correct in assuming that both programs have the full range of basic editing capabilities - say, any editing I could do with iPhoto or Picassa - and more? Is there anything obvious and basic that's missing from either of these apps?</p>

<p>- I am interested in the ability to correct perspective distortion. Does either app offer this function and if so, how flexible is it?</p>

<p>My interest is in being able to CORRECT photos rather than apply special effects to them. I want to be able to shoot in RAW and have the flexibility to get results in digital processing that I envisioned when taking the shot.</p>

<p>Thanks very much in advance for any advice. I do believe I understand the basic functions and differences between these apps and am looking to gain a more in-depth, under-the-hood understanding before I actually try one or the other of them out for real.</p>

<p>Well I know a few people who absolutely love Lightroom. Both applications can convert NEF files and apply changes, but I've compared Adobe Camera Raw to NX2 and I prefer NX2 for overall quality. Lightroom is a pretty slick program, and I would recommend trying out the trial version. You can try out NX2 for 60 days free as well (at least it was 60 days last time I checked). I have CS3 at home and it does well with perspective corrections, CS2 does as well. Don't know about Lightroom or NX2, but they most likely have that function. I'll let others chime in about that.<br>

<br /> Bottom line is, I think you want Photoshop.</p>

<p>I've read several articles by people most of us would consider knowledgable and rational saying that NX2 handles NEF colors better than ACR and LR. However, in their current versions, for me, LR2 beats NX2 in terms of getting the results I want, but I was an early LR adopter and had a lot of LR use under my belt when I tried NX2 - so YMMV.<br>

Today, I'm not sure you really need Photoshop. Unless you're selling your pictures for a living, you may be able to make all of the tweaks you need in LR2 or NX2.</p>

<p>See this post:<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Qmpj">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Qmpj</a><br>

NX2 uses control points or U point technology for local alterations. Very easy and fast. Go to Nikonusa and look at the NX2 tutorials to see what this is all about. In fact, the tutorials will answer most of your questions.<br>

You can keyword in View NX and/or NX2. Not sure what you mean by cataloguing. I do not consider NX2 to be a cataloging program.<br>

To see the list of editing functions for NX2 go to nikons web site for NX2. B&W conversions are covered. <a href="http://nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Imaging-Software/25385/Capture-NX-2.html">http://nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Imaging-Software/25385/Capture-NX-2.html</a><br>

NX2 is the only raw processor that will read your NEF settings. With all others you are starting over at 0 except for white balance.<br>

Many of my friends use both LR2 and nx2. They are complimentary. <br>

This link shows you how one photographer uses NX2: <a href="http://www.moosenewsblog.com/2008/07/nx2-tutorial-videos/">http://www.moosenewsblog.com/2008/07/nx2-tutorial-videos/</a><br>

Joe Smith</p>

 

<p>I went through a similar process late last year after buying my D80. Up to then I was using Picasa or the Vista Photo Gallery for organization and data management. I played with NX2 during the trial period but my post processing is very basic and doesn't aproach the level that full PS requires. I tried CaptureOne software and then LR2.<br>

<br />I was blown away by the easy interface of LR2 and how powerful it is at managing the photo's. So far, it provides more editing capability than I use. I think the only thing you loose from NX2 is the supposedly cleaner .nef conversion. It make sense that Nikon's s/w interprets Nikon's raw format better than another program. For me it wasn't enough to use the NX2. When I import my images off the card I have LR2 convert the files to .acr and haven't had any heartburn.<br>

<br />Ultimately I think you need download the trial version and test it out. Thats what solved the problem for me!</p>

<p>If your interest in is correcting images as opposed to special effects, I think you should definitely try the free 60 day trial of NX2. I find it is all I need, and is basically very easy to learn Shooting RAW your ability to "correct" a photo is excellent in NX2. Adjusting your white balance, exposure, selecting picture effects, D-Lighting, etc. are all easily done. The control points makes local edits very, very easy. The only downside to NX2 is it does requre a lot of computer memory.</p>

<p>- Does NX2 allow for LOCAL alterations within photos, dodging/burning type stuff? (IIRC LR2 does do this). <br>

Yes. In NX2 you can use the control points to do local adjustments or you can use tools similar to LR to select areas for dodging, etc.<br>

- Do either of these programs offer layer-type editing options as in PS? (Do any others that I haven't mentioned?)<br>

Both have the basic feature of layer based editing--that edits remain reversible. NX2 offers a more layer-like interface with the ability to apply blend modes to each edit step and to adjust the opacity of the edit (in fact NX2 allows separately adjusting the opacity of the luminance and chrominance components of each edit).<br>

- Do either offer a wide variety of filtering effects? Gruaduated neutral density, color filters for b&w conversions, etc?<br>

Both offer graduated ND and color filters for B&W conversion. NX2 allows for a number of other photo effects and filters, all of which can be applied as a gradient or otherwise applied selectively. I believe LR allows about a half dozen specific adjustments to be applied as a gradient or selectively.<br>

- Is Photoshop Elements or another Adobe product a viable alternative to either of these as a one-step editing solution?<br>

Many people find Elements adequate.<br>

- I am leaning towards LR2 for its cataloging capabilities in addition to editing capabilities. What important features of NX2 will I be missing out on if I go this way?<br>

NX2 offers support for Active D-Lighting, auto correction of chromatic aberration, auto correction for distortion for Nikon lenses, the sophisticated masking capabilities of control point technology, moire reduction, and image dust off. Whether these are important to you is up to you. IMHO NX2 does a slightly better job with RAW conversion but LR is certainly quite good. You are right that the cataloging abilities of LR are vastly superior to NX2.<br>

- Am I correct in assuming that both programs have the full range of basic editing capabilities - say, any editing I could do with iPhoto or Picassa - and more? Is there anything obvious and basic that's missing from either of these apps?<br>

Both can do edits like iPhoto or Picasa but neither is a substitute for Photoshop.<br>

- I am interested in the ability to correct perspective distortion. Does either app offer this function and if so, how flexible is it?<br>

AFAIK, neither will do perspective correction. Photoshop has several tools for perspective correction.</p>

<p>I have LR2 as well as NX2, Photoshop CS4 and Photoshop Elements 7. I have found that I like LR2 for quickly converting my RAW files to JPG files but then I usually find myself reaching for PE7 for handling the layer work with the JPGs. I think NX2 can give the best possible conversion of a RAW file but I usually only use it on RAW files that need the extra effort. Both LR2 and PE7 have a catalog component built in. If I was forced to go with only one of the two I would probably opt for PE7 because it can do the layers stuff too. There are some plug-ins (both free and inexpensive) that you can add to PE7 to give you almost as much functionality as Photoshop has as a much lower price. For the $80 price of PE7 at places like BestBuy, it is really hard to beat.</p>

<p>HLA</p>

<p>Download the GIMP and GIMP RAW converter for free from:<br>

<a href="http://www.gimp.org/downloads/">http://www.gimp.org/downloads/</a><br>

This neat little program has all the essential tools you'll find in Photoshop - layers, masking etc. - and uses similar icons to those in PS, so when you do finally upgrade to PS you won't be completely lost.<br>

NX2 is pants IMHO.</p>

<p>Best way to find out is spend 60 days free with NX2 (and you can similarly spend at least 30 or 45 of those with the official filter 'plug-in'; I forget its name but it is good and avaialble also on your local Nikon website.<br>

For me who does this for fun and who seeks to post-process maybe my best 5-10 images from each card of 300 only NX2 is awesome.<br>

I can see though that for someone who needed to quickly and efficiently process hundreds of images for a living (eg a wedding shooter) that other tools may be better.<br>

One final word on NX2 - it can't be looked at by itself. Download Nikon Transfer and Nikon View NX (both free) and set them up to link together because in fact they are a suite of linked applications. Sorting, batching and tagging for example is far better in View than NX2.</p>

<p>Glenn Nik software uses the same interface as NX2 and you can us there silver efex Band W software to not only convert color to monotone but to simulate the film emulsions look and vary contrast, grain and tone.</p>

<p>Glenn. I use NX2, in fact the nikon workflow Transfer/view/NX2 and always NEF. The U-point tecnique is excellent and local changes is easy to perform. I also use NIK filters Coler Efex 3 and the only thing I miss in NS2 is the perspective distorsion correction. that is almost the only thing I use my CS3 for.<br>

Cataloging is'nt too elegangt in view NX though, but naming directories and files, done when you use Nikon Transfer, and using keywords is a good way to keep track your pics.<br>

As already said, try i out!</p>

<p>Glenn. Forgot to mention that working in NEF with NX2 you get a 'layer' function i.e. the changes made will be put into different 'layers' and saved with the file (NEF only) so you can change them anytime.</p>

<p>I've used NX/NX2 for a couple of years and LR2 for a couple of weeks (I'm still on the free 30-day trial). NX2 is a capable program with some interesting features but it doesn't hold a candle to Lightroom.</p>

<p>LR2 is one of the most brilliant products I've ever used. The tools and the workflow make total sense. NX2 is a decent product, but some features are confusing. After a couple of weeks in LR2, when I fire up NX2 I feel like I'm at the controls of a Russian submarine.</p>

<p>NX2 modifies the original file. Lightroom does not, even with NEF files. LR2 "imports" information about the original files, but it never modifies them.</p>

<p>In LR2, you don't have to save multiple versions of the file for multiple edits. All edit parameters are stored in LR2's database ("catalog"), and you can mark different versions of the file with easy to use Snapshots.</p>

<p>Lightroom is great for cataloging photos AND editing them, so it's like a combination of NX2 and Capture NX together, but more powerful than the combination and easier to use.</p>

<p>Lightroom's editing tools are a lot easier to use than Photoshop's, but they're very powerful. I'm amazed how infrequently I have to switch over to PS.</p>

<p>I've been using LR2 for as much as 12 hours a day for a couple of weeks on an OLD Mac, and it has never crashed once.</p>

<p>NEF files open FASTER in LR2 than in NX2. A LOT faster.</p>

<p>LR2 offers three stages of sharpening - input, edit stage, and output. The input and output sharpening options have presets such as "Sharpen - Landscape" and "Sharpen for Glossy Paper - High".</p>

<p>LR2 doesn't correct lens or perspective distortion. However, it's easy to do your RAW processing in LR2, export the file as a PSD or a DNG type, open the file in Photoshop, correct the distortion, save, and then re-import the file into LR2.</p>

<p>LR2's import and export tools are very slick with many powerful options. The Import tool doesn't really import a file, just enough data about the file to be able to edit it. The Export tool always exports a file.</p>

 

<p>

<blockquote>

<p >- Does NX2 allow for LOCAL alterations within photos, dodging/burning type stuff? (IIRC LR2 does do this).</p>

</blockquote>

<p > </p>

<p >NX uses u-points. LR2 has a multi-purpose brush for cloning/healing techniques and also a flexible "graduated filter" that can be used for a lot more than just darkening parts of your image. That said, it's amazing how much you can accomplish just by using a few sliders, e.g. for Fill Light and (Highlight) Recovery, Exposure, Contrast, etc.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- Do either of these programs offer layer-type editing options as in PS? (Do any others that I haven't mentioned?)</p>

</blockquote>

<p >LR2 doesn't have layers, but all editing features are non-destructive, and you can switch back and forth between any edits in your history list.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- Do either offer a wide variety of filtering effects? Gruaduated neutral density, color filters for b&w conversions, etc?</p>

</blockquote>

<p >LR2 has a simulated graduated filter, but it's not just for exposure level control. You can use it to control Clarity, Saturation, Sharpness and several other parameters.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- Is Photoshop Elements or another Adobe product a viable alternative to either of these as a one-step editing solution?</p>

</blockquote>

<p >I don't think Elements is comparable to LR, but it's been a few years since I've used it.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- Does GIMP offer enough sophisticated functionality that between LR2 and GIMP, I could do pretty much everything that I could do with a full copy of PS?</p>

</blockquote>

<p >Nothing replaces PS.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- I am leaning towards LR2 for its cataloging capabilities in addition to editing capabilities. What important features of NX2 will I be missing out on if I go this way?</p>

</blockquote>

<p >U-point editing. Fully up-to-spec NEF conversion.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- Am I correct in assuming that both programs have the full range of basic editing capabilities - say, any editing I could do with iPhoto or Picassa - and more? Is there anything obvious and basic that's missing from either of these apps?</p>

</blockquote>

<p > </p>

<p >iPhoto doesn't compare to a professional app like LR2.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >- I am interested in the ability to correct perspective distortion. Does either app offer this function and if so, how flexible is it?</p>

</blockquote>

<p >Neither corrects perspective distortion. You need PS or a specialized utility like DXO for this.</p>

<p > </p>

<blockquote>

<p >My interest is in being able to CORRECT photos rather than apply special effects to them. I want to be able to shoot in RAW and have the flexibility to get results in digital processing that I envisioned when taking the shot.</p>

</blockquote>

<p > </p>

<p >This is exactly what LR2 is designed to do. Every change is non-destructive, and it's easy to compare each step in your edit to the original image or to other steps.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

</p>

<p>Dan, I have never seen NX or NX2 modify the original NEF file. It will only do that if you then save your NEF again. I always open with NX2 and make changes, then open it into Photoshop from NX2 as a TIF file.<br>

Can you point to documentation that says NX2 alters the NEF file without notifying the user that these are permanent changes?</p>

<p>Thanks everybody for the excellent and detailed answers. I've read them all carefully and will go over them again.</p>

<p>I was hoping that there would be a clearly superior solution for my needs that would be flexible and simple and involve a small number of steps, but it looks like such a thing just doesn't exist, something most of you seem to have already realized. I think the next step is to download trial versions of some of these apps and try them out myself. The Nik products and the Adobe products all seem to have significant and distinct benefits, and I'm afraid I'll find I need every one of them to be able to do everything I want to do. LR2 seems to be the most flexible overall with the best speed and batch editing, and I think I will probably start with it.</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

 

<p>I've never used Lightroom. I have CS3 Extended and, for the most part, it gathers dust.</p>

<p>NX2 is just excellent for almost every scenario. I'm trying to find things in CS3 which I can't (but actually WANT) to do in NX2 and I'm struggling. Incidentally, I'm not into heavy PP stuff or 'digital art'.</p>

<p>Have a go with the free NX2 trial as there's nothing to lose. There's also a book called 'Nikon Capture NX2: Industrial Strength Production Techniques' by Ben Long - published by Real World. The ISBN is......</p>

<p>ISBN-13: 978-0-321-55359-1</p>

<p>If you go to <a href="http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780321602534">http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780321602534</a> you'll find details. I bought a copy and it's just the best book I've ever owned on PP work.</p>

<p>Best wishes. Paul.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Paul and others, how do you find NX2 for things like batch edits, for example instances where you want to select a handful of photos, or dozens, and have it make the identical white balance adjustment, contrast adjustment, and exposure adjustment to each?</p>

<p>I've heard it is very poor or even un-useable for this type of work, but maybe those are exaggerated accounts.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I have read comments from users of Nikon Capture NX 2 who claim that its rendering of NEFs is superior to Adobe's Camera Raw and Lightroom. Could someone please elaborate on this, explaining what characteristics are better handled by the Nikon software? It would be great if they could provide links to particular raw files which demonstrate their claims.</p>

<p>I have very limited experience with Nikon Capture. I tried the demo version of NX a couple of years ago, and I'm currently trying the NX 2.2 demo. On NEFs from D700 and D2X, I do not see any obvious advantages over Adobe Lightroom 2.3 and Camera Raw 5.3. When I set up the Adobe products to use the "Camera Neutral" camera profile, and add a small amount of capture sharpening, the conversions are very close to what I see from "Neutral" Picture Control in NX 2.2</p>

<p>The only features that I covet in NX 2.2 are the automatic distortion and aberration corrections. In the Adobe workflow, I have to make these corrections manually (although I rarely need them).</p>

<p>To me, the Nikon software has some significant drawbacks. On a Mac Pro with 6GB RAM, it is much slower than the Adobe products. Responses to changes in control settings are sluggish. There is often no visual feedback to indicate the status of an operation. The software crashes too often (at least once per hour). And in general, the user interface seems unintuitive and poorly designed.</p>

<p>If NX 2.2 had demonstrably superior output, I might be willing to put up with its clumsy UI and slow performance. But, so far, I'm not seeing any advantage.</p>