Police Police Help Me, He Took My Picture

Hmm, you'd think that protesters would want to have their photo taken to help spread their word.

<p>She is a lunatic. I wish she would sue me, then I could call her a nut in open court :)</p>

<p>Reading all this one might come under the impression that it's all trouble out there and one gets hassled all the time while in fact more often than not the opposite is true. All good and well to swap "war stories" here but is that what it's really like out there? Not in my experience.</p>

<p>What about all the times we work out there and meet friendliness and hospitality in even some of the toughest crowds where you might least suspect it because that happens as well. Yes, one is likely to meet nutters and officials who seem to derive pleasure from getting in your way but in my experience they are vastly outnumbered.</p>

<p>Yesterday I gave four prints to people who I shot out there earlier this week and I have to mail photo's to another five. Great people all. Frankly I have been offered more times a cup of coffee than I have been screamed at and I don't think that, generally speaking, people in Europe differ that much from those in the US. Sure, incidents will happen but in the end they are just that, incidents. A few weeks ago I started shooting in a neighbourhood and was warned off early on by someone who told me that a week earlier someone (not a photographer btw) was shot there in broad daylight over next to nothing. I later checked and it proved to be true. Now, believe you me I'm a real cautious guy and do anything to stay out of trouble as in not going looking for it but if I had to worry every time I go out there I'd rather stay at home. Needless to say I shot there all day and a few more since.</p>

<p>There is humour out there as well. I was shooting this week at a multicultural market (where sometimes illegal immigrants conduct business and things are sold "under the counter" which can be tricky) and one of the vendors asked me if I was a Tax Inspector and I of course said yes because clearly I wasn't. That took care of some laughter, the word spread and it all broke the ice. Had a nice time there.</p>

<p>I have no words of wisdom for you Jon because every situation is different.</p>

<p>Heck if I looked like that I would not want my picture taken, maybe she should wear a bag over her face when in public;-) keep shooting</p>

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<p>The 911 operator says "thats not a crime maam"</p>

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<p>How does one hear someone else's conversation on a cell phone in NYC? I can't even hear my own phone there sometimes without plugging my other ear, I have never heard anything on anyone else's phone. Even in cities with no ambient noise, I haven't heard another person's conversation on both ends.</p>

<p>I heard it, for sure, and her response saying it is a crime because I didnt ask her first.</p>

<p>Tom your right, I never had this happen to me before. Especially in Manhattan. But I think the chances are higher in "diverse" areas like where I was in Midwood Brooklyn where not many folks are walking around with cameras. </p>

<p>Jon,<br>

I read the story the other day and thought is was just that a Story. It really sounds far fetched to ''me''. The re-calling of a 911 conversation is unusual unless you have the full transcript.. I agree with Jeff in that I can barley here my cell phone.....Then 20 minutes for the cops to get there and when they do, 5 police cars show up....and in all this you still managed to be getting off snaps with a film camera with one hand as she has you down by the other... Then one of the cops pulls out a nikon lens? He happened to have his new lens with him and shows it to you...Ok if you say so.</p>

<p>Well, here in London you can hear both sides of conversation on mobiles. Probably because they are shouting at each other to overcome background noise.....truly a pain.</p>

<p>Jon, stuff happens on the street, photography or otherwise. Myself, i would not have engaged in conversation, just moved on, if grabbed gone on the charm offensive.</p>

<p>Don't let it get to you,mate.</p>

<p>When, not if, but when people on the street shake their head or hand meaning they do not want their picture taken, I immediately erase it and let them know I did out of respect for their wishes. I have gained their respect in return. I see some of these people on the street over time and occasionaly will chat with them when they walk up to me. It is all a matter of respect.</p>

<p>It's funny about the story about the protesters. They probably thought you were with the government. I had somewhat of a similar thing happen a couple years back. Union Picketers were at our building protesting some non-union work being done. So I grabbed my camera and went out. They were on the landing in front of our building in a circle, shouting slogans etc. They had a video unit with them. So I got close to the circle and one of the guys kind of gets in front of me and lower's his sign in front of my camera. I zigged and zagged a couple of times and he kept moving it in front of me. Being thick, It took me about 2 dances to realize he was purposely trying to block me. So I tell him to get his sign on his face and he turns around and gets about 6 inches from my face and says, there will be no f*ing pictures. So now I'm p.o.'d and say I'll take any f*ing picture I want. (He was much bigger, stronger and meaner looking then me) but there we stood looking at each other. Finally I just stepped back, and by that time the police were there talking to the union people etc. to have them remove the protest off the property on onto the sidewalk. I'm thinking, if they are protesting, and it's righteous, why wouldn't they want to advertise it? What's the point?<br>

Any ways I told one of the guys I work for who has done labor law, and he said they probably thought I was with the building and the verbal assualt is an old trick to get me pissed off enough to assault them, and then they slap a lawsuit on the building, for lack of security etc. plus assault on my part. So you never know. That guy was 1 tough looking hombre. I was also told the protesters aren't really union members, they're often hired protesters? Could be.</p>

 

<p>James: its not a matter of respect at all, but a matter of freedoms and rights under the law and constitution. The supreme court has ruled that there is no "expectation of privacy in public".<br>

Give them an inch and they will take an arm, and we will all wind up taking photos of flowers and birds :)<br>

If I have to start asking people for permission to photograph them then I will give up photography.<br>

Javier: Ummmmmm what can I say? I really dont give a rats behind if you or anyone else "believe" the story or not. And if the photos were concocted they would have been properly exposed and with much better perspective. I was using one hand and holding the camera up in the air, and couldnt focus or meter, I just managed to get a couple of shots off. <br>

As far as the 911 operator, I did hear it booming through the cell phone, although not very clear, but the old womans responses to the operator did clear up what was said.<br>

Whatever.....................</p>

<p>Jon<<br>

I was not implying that we must go around to get permission on ever shot. Also, I know the law, public place is open game. I was just stating that if a subject in a street shot does not want their photo taken and requests such I do not. I give the subject the courtesy of deleting the photo. I think we all take into consideration circumstances where our own good judgement follows. If I were shooting a news story or something of such I may not adhere to my own judgement in this case. One must take all things into consideration, yet one must show respect.</p>

<p>"If I were shooting a news story or something of such I may not adhere to my own judgement "</p>

<p>all street photography is a news story, even if no one ever sees it.</p>

<p>Jon's story doesnt sound that far fetched, Javier. Plausible to me anyway.<br>

I try to take my shots surreptitiously and, so far, havent been challenged. Had a few funny looks on occasion, but nothing involving the police.</p>

<p>I would like to publically apologize to Jon for questioning his story. I have had some crazy things happen to me out on the streets, but nothing like this and hopefully i will not!</p>

 

<p>Wait, wait. 20 minute response time is too slow? I consider it a blessing that the police in this case did not feel that this case of aggravated photography with intent to malign, defame and violate privacy (or whatever that old bat was thinking) did not see this as a five alarm fire. There are, after all, actual crimes being committed in NY.</p>

<p>One has to be sensitive to many different cultures. We live in a multicultural society and just as they bring their beliefs and fears with them from countries where photographing people is not done, they also have to understand that this country is a free one in this regard.<br>

Here we have many economic refugees from South Africa. They freak if you take their photo because the security forces over there do that when they have you under surveillance.<br>

One just has to be careful and very sensitive, and sometimes thats not easy.</p>

<p>I'm a beginner photographer. I've been afraid to hit the streets again in Charlottesville, Virginia to take some shots for this very reason. I don't want to be attacked or have my camera taken/broken. I've already been confronted and I really did not like that.<br>

Cville can cause a little hassle for a girl (25 yr old) who is holding her camera in someone's face. I don't feel like I've ever really been in someone's face but that's what they say. Not only do I have to worry about the UVa students who don't really care about personal property. There are also a lot of retired or visiting older people (60+) who will tell you where to go. All of them bring their lawyers into it and I start to believe them. I don't want to believe that I can get arrested or sued by someone just because I took a photo. I don't have the $$ to fight them. I have deleted photos just because I felt bad. It's just so ridiculous. I don't want to be afraid anymore.<br>

How do I know if the location or event is public or private? What do I say to the person to get them to walk away?</p>

<p>So if a girl's skirt flies up and you managed the capture the moment, would you have the right to keep and publish that photo?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=4583437">Adrienne Eichner</a> <br>

"Take a deep breath... and relax."<br>

You do have friends in Charlottesville, VA, USA.<br>

Stay in touch.</p>

<p>Thanks Johnnycake.</p>

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<p>Now, imagine you had managed to resist the comment, "Guess what, I dont have to ask you." And also managed to talk her into a cup of coffee to talk about her life in the mother land. Now, that would probably have resulted in some great stories and maybe even some photos of her family.</p>

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<p>Jon, at least take responsibility for your part in this squabble... While I don't agree that permission MUST, in an ethical if not legal sense, be asked of a subject, a bit of sensitivity and constructive communication may have helped, and might indeed have led to greater photographic opportunity and even a bit of mutual understanding.</p>

<p>I really don't understand why some photographers, realizing that the law is on their side in such situations, get defensive when others object to their images being appropriated. Keeping in mind a few basic ideas might lead to better understanding and less conflict:<br>

a) The subject is probably not nearly as aware of the photographer's legal rights as the photographer himself;<br>

b) The subject may have strong sociocultural beliefs or concerns against being photographed;<br>

c) A host of unknown factors (some of which could be really relevant and worthy of consideration by the photographer) may be at play (eg. a battered wife who fears that her photo might lead her batterer to finding her, etc.).</p>

<p>A simple bit of courtesy, rather than a kneejerk defensive response ("Guess what, I dont have to ask you"), could very well have allayed the woman's fears or concerns, and would certainly paint street photographers in general in a more positive light.</p>

<p>>>> A simple bit of courtesy, rather than a kneejerk defensive response ("Guess what, I dont have to ask you"), could very well have allayed the woman's fears or concerns, and would certainly paint street photographers in general in a more positive light.</p>

<p>Agree totally...</p>

<p>Awesome job.</p>

<p>You have no reasonable expectation of privacy in public. If you decide to wear a very revealing pair of assless chaps on the street and someone takes your picture then that's that. Whether or not they publish it is a moral issue. And adrenaline has a funny way of making you remember everything in clear detail second by second.</p>

<p>It's a pretty good action shot on your blog too!<br>

Thanks for sharing.</p>