Leica stopping the R line

<p>Well, I think that I see the "writing on the wall"! I just got back from the North American Leica HQ. I was near there, so I dropped-in to pick-up some current literature. The 2008-2009 Product catalouge doesn't even mention anything what-so-ever about there ever having been a Leica 35mm SLR! Nothing from the original 'flex to the R-9. Not even the R-9 is mentioned, and the S-2 with just one lens is pictured twice with an announcement that it will be out in 2010. The televid's and binnoc's are way towards the back. The brand-new 21 & 24 lux's, the 18, and the Noct. .095 are all there in traditional fashion. All of the current point-N-shoots are extensively covered, and half of the book is about the M-8 and the sapphire upgrade. Oh well!</p>

<p>One doesn't have to read between the lines to assume that the entire 35mm SLR line has been "abandoned"! After all of the $$$$$ I've invested, I feel like I've been treated like ^#^*%!</p>

<p>Tom,<br>

At one time I did. Currently No.<br>

I think its fair to say I have some perspective.</p>

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<p>People seemed to like the R8/9's, but I can't imagine they were selling many of them, so it doesn't surprise me. There are times when a SLR is a better choice, so I will continue to use my R5.</p>

<p>"One doesn't have to read between the lines to assume that the entire 35mm SLR line has been "abandoned"! After all of the $$$$$ I've invested, I feel like I've been treated like ^#^*%!"</p>

<p>The R10 will be compatible with the existing R lenses. That doesn't strike me as abandonment. If you want to see what abandonment is like look at Canon FD.</p>

<p>I don't understand the dissing of the R8 and R9 cameras - they are no less ugly than the NIkon and Canon cameras and to my teutonic sensibilities are very attractive. I have a Leicaflex SL and an R-8, and find myself using the R-8 almost all the time - both are great cameras, but the R-8 has the mirror lock-up and flash exposure capabillity. Great features. Let us hope for the R-10 camera. IF none, than I shall continue with the film option - it's good enough for my needs. Don't need the latest new-faggled toys.</p>

<p>Whilst I have no suggestion as to the price of a digital R series, I think, actually strongly believe that the new S will retail at a price point somewhere between the high end Canon and the Hasselblad H.<br>

I would be absolutely dumbfounded if it were more than the Hasselblad</p>

<p>The Leica SL and SL2,as well as the R6 and R6.2,the best Leica slr camera's ever made. O-k,I'm biased,I own a couple of 6.2's,and they,and the lenses,have never let me down.</p>

<p>The R8 was considered BIG when it came out to the market. By today's standards, it is small compared to the high end Canon and Nikon cameras.<br>

One feature of the R8 & R9 that os often not mentioned, is the built in Minolta TTL flashmeter. I really loved this function when shooting in the studio, specially for macro shots with studio strobes. The camera flashmeter would account for the exact compensation needed! No guess work or mental calculations, the camera allowed me to concentrate much more. No other camera has offered this function except for the Contax RTSIII.<br>

I do not consider this feature to be part of a crap camera at all. The R line may have not been perfect, but some cameras had their own merits.</p>

<p>Doug,</p>

<p>As I stated before, the new catalouge doesn't list ANY 35mm SLR stuff at all, as if the company never made any! Lots of "history, including pix of Oscar B. at the work bench. There is no hint of an R-10, with a scheduled release date, as is the case with the S-2.</p>

<p>It wouldn't make sense to completely omit 35mm SLR bodies OR LENSES, unless they (Leica) no longer wish to sell them! To think that the same German company that produced all of those ASPH. & APO SLR lenses which sold for $2,500 to $8,500 each wouldn't want to boast about them, at least on a single page of the catalouge, it just plain CRAZY! In past catalouges, much page space was given to such things as the 90 APO, the 15mm F2.8, the 180 APO, the 70-180 APO, and the focusing units with interchangable heads. Now they don't exist?</p>

<p>If they wanted to promote a 35mm film camera, or announce a 35mm size digital camera that will be using R lenses that they're still looking to sell, one would assume that they would have done so.</p>

<p>If someone else can prove otherwise, I'm listening</p>

<p>David, what Leica has done is unload inventory that is no longer marketable. The market has said NO to manual-focus 35mm SLR equipment. Leica plans to make their manual-focus equipment even less marketable at full MSRP when they introduce the R10 and its AF-R lenses. You and I might think the manual-focus R lenses are the bee's knees but we can't make it profitable for Leica to hold onto existing, depreciating stock let alone make more.</p>

<p>Leica certainly hasn't abandoned us because they are planning to make existing manual-focus lenses compatible with the R10, and IMHO they have shown far more commitment to the R customer than any other 35mm camera maker.</p>

<p>R.I.P.</p>

<p>Are we just assuming that there's going to be a digital R10? If Leica is planning to release R10 eventually, why would they stop production of R line products?</p>

<p>David, these are not assumptions. Last year when the S2 with AF lenses was announced, Dr Kaufmann, CEO of Leica, "that Leica engineering teams are working under full pressure to finish the R10" And that the technology developed for the S2 would spill down to the 35 mm lines. <br>

As a matter of when, we all know it takes Leica quite a while to bring products to the market. As you do, I also have quite some nice Apo R glass that I want to keep using, therefore I will definitely be interested in an R10.</p>

<p>Max - it's apparent Leica's future SLR line will be centered around auto-focus bodies and lenses. So they have discontinued production of manual-focus bodies and lenses. That's all. Leica has stated their intention to permit use of old manual-focus R lenses on the new auto-focus bodies. I think folks are making more out of this news than it really means.</p>

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<p>I think folks are making more out of this news than it really means</p>

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<p>Well, it appears certain that there will be no new R film camera - which for Leica is a bit of a surprise in itself.<br /> Quite honestly, looking at the prices of NEW R lenses recently - and comparing them to the costs of USED R lenses that often are less than 1/3 - I can't imagine many buying new R glass considering that it depreciates by at least 50% the instant you plunk down the card to pay for it.<br /> Is seems also obvious that a new R10 will come with new AF lenses - another reason not to purchase new MF R glass now - and by extension, not to produce any either.<br /> Given Leica's slowness of getting things to market, I am wondering how they will manage a new series of S and R lenses all at once? Or will there only be S lenses that can be mounted to an R body via adapter? Stopping the production of R lenses in addition could be necessary to free capacity for the production of the S system?</p>

<p>"Stopping the production of R lenses in addition could be necessary to free capacity for the production of the S system?"</p>

<p>Not much point producing something that isn't selling unless bankruptcy looks attractive.</p>

<p>Hopefully the older cam lenses will mount on the R10 without an issue, and there's no need to convert to ROM contacts, such as older M lenses need to be 6 bit coded.</p>

<p>"Well, it appears certain that there will be no new R film camera - which for Leica is a bit of a surprise in itself."<br>

I'm not sure this is the case. Maybe an auto-focus film version will be offered. Maybe not. If not then I can't say I'm surprised. Time will tell. Better stock up on those R9's while still available. :-)</p>

<p>For all wondering what R10 would look like: just as R9 and S2. Same chassis. They invested way too much into it in mid-90s, they are going to use the tooling until it drops dead.<br>

(Meanwhile, everyone dump your worthless manual focus R glass. My SL needs some!)</p>

<p>A brand as strong as Leica will never go out of business. It is worth too much. It might go on hiatus for awhile though.</p>

<p>I find it sad to see the R line go. Though I don't own an R camera (not that I haven't tried to justify, then buy one), I have used an R4, R8 and R9. They are beautifully built and the optics amazing. Just too much money for my needs.</p>

<p>If they're smart, they'll start a line of manual focus Canon EOS mount wide angles with built in focus confirmation chip. They should hone in on the weak areas of other makers lens line-ups and accessories.</p>

<p>R stuff is still listed on the Leica website and there is no announcement about stopping the R line there.</p>

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<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=193587">Douglas Herr</a> , Mar 06, 2009; 09:33 p.m.<br>

The R10 will be compatible with the existing R lenses. That doesn't strike me as abandonment. If you want to see what abandonment is like look at Canon FD.</p>

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<p>To quote your response to Eric S.: "You have performance specs and comparison tests already?"</p>

<p>Do you know for certain that the (autofocus) R10 will have a viewfinder optimised for manual focus? That is the primary complaint about R lenses on EOS bodies.</p>

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<p>"Do you know for certain that the (autofocus) R10 will have a viewfinder optimised for manual focus?"</p>

<p>No clue. We'll have to see a production camera to determine that.</p>

<p>The BJP newsletter I got this morning quotes Leica as saying there will be a digital R10, delivered at the very end of 2010 "if we're very lucky." Something about an autofocus lens, too. S2 delivery is slipping a bit to this fall, and S2 production needs are cited as the reason for halting R production at this time.</p>