Tuol Sleng / Photos Khmer Rouge Prisoners.

<p>I heard a filmaker say on radio today that the famous series of photographs of Khmer Rouge prisoners showed them "smiling, because they were about to get their picture taken", or 'fearful' because "they knew that they were about to die".</p>

<p>I looked at those images and I think that they are more dispassionate. More like innocent, oppressed persons being called in for questioning. Or perhaps it's resignation, the dates of the photos aren't really clear, 1975-1979.</p>

<p>Link to images:<br>

http://www.tuolsleng.com/</p>

<p>I googled the photographer, Mr. Nhem En, and this article reads:<br>

"I’m just a photographer; I don’t know anything,” he said he told the newly arrived prisoners as he removed their blindfolds and adjusted the angles of their heads. But he knew, as they did not, that every one of them would be killed.<br>

Link to above: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/26/world/asia/27cambo.html?_r=2</p>

<p>Brutal stuff, sorry to bring it up, but it strikes me strange that a person on the radio, who has studied the subject and I think made a film about it, should misinterpret the images so badly. At least that's how I see it. He is also apparently a student of still photography and on that topic he brought out some other points, which were perhaps more on target.</p>

<p>Here's a link to the radio program:<br>

well, heck I can't find the link...it was an NPR station in US/NY. Broadcast today, 2/17.</p>

<p>I have no question really, it's just a pet peeve of mine that people perceive things so much as they want to see them. In this case, I'm right and he is wrong. But without a link I can't prove it.</p>

 

<p>These are terrible pictures and horrendous words from a photographer that we hear over and over again : "I just do my job" or "People have the right to know what happened" are the ever repeated justifications of such photographical acts. Sometimes even the viewer are guilty of being part of the show. Photographers should just like doctors in such cases put down the scalpel and refuse to work in respect of humanity. We viewers should refuse to see them, comments on them or interpret them.<br /> Where are the examples of ethical rules for the work of professional photographers like for medical doctors?<br /> What would they be?</p>

<p>As a photographer who spent 6 years living in Phnom Penh in the 90s, I have spent probably too long staring at these prints at Toul Sleng. I also knew the guys who spent years rescuing the negs doing the prints.<br>

I don't judge the photographer. He was just a kid sent to Shanghai to learn how to shoot portraits. If he complained for one second, his head would have been bashed in like all the others. After being horrifically tortured, of course. Speaking up, or even the slightest hint of dissent, and that was the end of your life.<br>

It's so complicated, that even after spending a good chunk of my life in that place, I don't judge anyone who went through the nightmare. We have absolutely no idea.<br>

Personally I don't think you can use pithy little expressions to describe those photos.</p>

<p>Well said, Ian. It's too easy to judge or second guess what could have been or should have been from the insular position of one's own country and safety of one's own home.</p>

<p>Often all the documentary reporter or photographer can do is record the events and survive to report them. It may be the one thing that offsets the dictum that the victor writes history.</p>

<p>Exactly.<br>

After living there for a couple of years, and working at the daily paper, I knew everything.<br>

After six, I knew nothing.</p>

 

<p>I agree of course with Ian that there are cases where one does not have the choice. But we have the choice not to look at the result and stare into the eyes of those that are condemned. Decency in a society of images and daily doses of chocks is something to nurture among us all. </p>

<p>Thank you, John for sharing this information. I had no idea about that part of the world except the terms "Pol Pot", "killing fields", "Khmer Rouge". I didn't know that there exists Museum of Genocide, and at least I expected that I'll find a story of photographers who photographed the prisoners before they were killed. I was surprised finding a book about Pol Pot where writer described him as a charismatic person with kind of Buddhist-monk behavior. I simply can't believe.<br>

I never understood the politics in this area of the world.<br>

Generally, Cambodians were pretty people, very pretty.</p>

<p>Just a nod of respect, to the maturity of Ian's comments.</p>

<p>"But we have the choice not to look at the result and stare into the eyes of those that are condemned."</p>

<p>Ian has beautifully addressed the case of the photographers. I think viewing these photos is complicated as well. Anders's is a sentiment which I can understand and accept. At the same time, I have to recognize that the choices are many and are motivated by a lot of different factors. </p>

<p>Some feel that it is only by staring into those eyes that we will be moved to see to it that it never happens again. Unfortunately, even with constant reminders, humans seem to keep heaping atrocities on one another. On the other hand, some simply have a morbid and even exploitive curiosity into these matters, no different from the stalled traffic we all experience because people need to slow down and look at car accidents . . . fascination is often at odds with humaneness.</p>

<p>Growing up Jewish, I've had my share of reminders of the holocaust. Many of my elders who lived through it feel the need to stare into those suffering, sometimes dead, eyes with pictures, memorials, recounting of stories. It is significant to them (and sometimes to me) to stare that personal history in the face and it seems significant to them to have others stare into it as well. Many would see the choice not to look as a denial or at least an avoidance.</p>

<p>It's hard to judge.</p>

<p>Fred,<br>

"Unfortunately, even with constant reminders, humans seem to keep heaping atrocities on one another."<br>

Yes, you are right, totaly. My generation didn't experience those kinds of wars, only heard. So, it is kind of compensation in a strangely way which I don't comprehend - that we keep heaping atrocities on one another.<br>

If you consciously don't fitting into particular conglomerate, you ought to be "killed". Because I think people are not comfortable having around "unfitted person". So they are fueled by fear wanting to hurt them. I still believe in evolving of their consciousness. Yes, I've been hurt.</p>

 

<p>I'm glad the photos were taken and saved. Discrediting deniers - and there will eventually <em>be</em> deniers of KR atrocities - is made easier with photos, artifacts, and eyewitness accounts.</p>

<p>Thanks Fred you formulated very well and to the point the importance of such photos and the pitfalls they represent for photographers and viewers. Such photos are themselves, not killing fields, but dangerous areas that only should be trespassed with the greatest caution.</p>

<p>As I looked through these images I was struck by the sense of futility in the eyes of the subjects. These may be the only record of their existence. It counts for something if only that. It also reinforces the words regarding history, those who cannot remember history are doomed to repeat it (paraphrase).</p>

<p>While in Vietnam there was a period, though short, where every soldier I photographed was later killed. It kept me from going out with couple of units because I was then perceived as bad luck by the troops. Somehow that idea became internalized and came back to haunt me in latter years.</p>

<p>I feel that these pictures and those from the WWII death camps should be required viewing for everyone throughout their lives. Memories can be very short and selective without something to keep reinforcing them.</p>

<p>Glenn,<br>

you always say something interesting and (almost) entertaining. This is how you sound to me in a very positive manner.</p>

<p>I've seen these same pictures before, only from a different era. A couple of years ago I saw an exhibit of photos in Chicago taken by a National Socialist (Nazi) camp photographer at Auschwitz-Birkenau. These were shots of Hungarian Jews getting off the train and walking towards to gas chambers. They are one of a kind photos. The expressions on the faces of the people are bascially the same as the ones on Sleng's website. These are people who know they are doomed; you can clearly see it in their eyes. I ended up buying the book:<br>

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Auschwitz-Album-published-association-Auschwitz-Birkenau/dp/9653081497/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235247542&sr=1-2">http://www.amazon.com/Auschwitz-Album-published-association-Auschwitz-Birkenau/dp/9653081497/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235247542&sr=1-2</a></p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

 

<p>Heart wrenching. Women and children. Beautiful people, all. I have no words.</p>

<p>I can't imagine why a regime would think it prudent to kill its own civilians. Every tyrrant that ever perpetuated such atrocities have been toppled. When will people realize tyranny fails. I, too, agree that these images should be shown. Obviously the images of the tortured and slaughtered Jews and gypsies from the 1940's did not deter tyrrany. It is likely these too will not deter tyrrany. Look at Darfur. But at least now, these folks, tortured, slaughtered and nearly wiped out will be remembered - even if we do not know their names. They will also get some semblence of justice, even if their torturers get better toilets.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, we need these type of photos to not only prove that these events happened, but also to avoid them from happening in the future. And it's happening again in Darfur. What if there were no images of Darfur and only whispers of stories? Would people believe and would they care?<br>

We should think about how our world would be different without the following:<br>

photos of concentration camp victims and piles of dead bodies in Eastern Europe<br>

the Zapruder and Nix film and the Moorman Polaroid photograph<br>

photographs inside Abu-Ghraib<br>

photographs and news footage in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia</p>

<p>Some of these photographs were intended to capture terrible events for history and others unintentionally captured significant moments, but all have become significant with time.</p>

<p>There's a lot that can be said on this subject. Let's try to remember the context in which it all happened and the part played by western governments in the atrocities visited on Cambodia.</p>

<p>I've been to S21 too, and walked around with one of the guides there. I took a few photographs myself but didn't feel too much like photography on that day in that place. As the tour began an American woman was listening to "my" guide from a few paces off so I invited her to join us for the rest of the visit. When we got to the end of the tour I asked about the guide's own experience and that of her family during the Khmer Rouge period; most of her relatives were killed along with almost 20% of the population of the country.</p>

<p>I apologised to our Cambodian guide for the fact that after the liberation of Cambodia by the Vietnamese my own government (UK) and that of the USA actually embargoed Cambodia and Vietnam against most forms of international assistance - a fact that can only be interpreted as sustained viciousness toward the victors in the war against Vietnam. To compound this astounding offence <em>we actually supported a</em> <em>Khmer Rouge contingent as representatives of the Cambodian people in the U.N</em> . for a few years after they had been ejected from power. I well remember the abominable Thatcher's typically confident - and equally characteristically, grotesquely incorrect - assertions that a mere 120,000 had been killed (actually a lower figure than the number of peasant farmers who perished in the US bombing of Svay Rieng province during the latter phase of the war - which was effectively the biggest recruiting drive the KR ever received.) Thatcher also used the memorable phrase "<em>moderate Khmer Rouge representatives</em> " about the UN contingent of these genocidal maniacs. My apology to our guide caused the American lady to take fright and scuttle away without any comment. But you can't run away from the fact that OUR governments supported the Khmer Rouge for a few years or that our governments' foreign policies were instrumental in their rise to power.</p>

<p>It's too easy to just look at these photographs and reflect superficially on the context that gave rise to them, but it's not enough. There's plenty of general literature on the subject but I would commend Francois Bizot's unique autobiographical account "The Gate". Right now "Comrade Duch" - the self-confessed commandant of S21 - is on trial in Pnom Penh, one of very few of the leadership (amongst whom he was at a very low level) to ever stand trial. Bizot was actually his prisoner in a jungle camp for months during the period just before the KR attained power and got to know him. Amazingly, Bizot owes his life to Duch's intercession with the KR leadership...</p>

<p>Currently the parallels of Vietnam/Cambodia with the mismanagement of the Afghanistan/Pakistan war are breathtaking. Little or nothing seems to have been learned.</p>

<p>In my opinion, this kind of thing should be handled by the United Nations, the Red Cross, the Vatican, and other international organisations who profess to 'right' these injustices.</p>

<p>Yeah, okay.....</p>

<p>Bill P.</p>