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Folding Cameras and Flash


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<p>I know that there are a lot of people here on PN that regularly use a folding 35mm, or 120 roll film camera..I know that a large percentage of the shutters that these cameras were equipped with are flash capable..It looks more, and more, as if I am not going to be able to afford a Pentax 67II camera any time in the near future..I am considering the purchase of a re-furbished folding 6x6 or 6x9 camera from certo6..Although flash photography has never been something that I have focused on in my photography, I am curious as to how easy, or how difficult it is to use a flash with these 50-75 year old cameras?..Would any of the members be willing to share their experiences with using a flash unit with a folding camera?..If so, would you please be as specific as possible as to the camera, type of flash (bulb or electronic), the means of triggering the flash, how successful you felt the end results were, and if you felt it was worth the time and trouble to use a flash with an older folding camera?..</p>

<p>Thanks, Bruce</p>

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<p>Go over to my gallery of test shots for my "new" folder: http://bfretro.smugmug.com/gallery/7270712_DPGxF#467377107_hx5Ho .</p>

<p>Shot No. 7 was taken using a modern, elcctronic dedicated flash unit for my Pentax cameras, set on manual mode. I triggered it using a PC-to-hotshoe adapter bought at one of my local camera stores. As you can see, it worked just fine.</p>

<p>It is, of course, an all-manual operation, as is everything on these old cameras. You have to know the flash's guide number, adjust it for film speed, then divide by the distance to the subject to get the aperture setting.Not that big a deal. Oh, and unless you're going for full-blown retro and using flashbulbs, be sure to set shutter to X (xenon) sync. If you use M (medium-rise flashbulb) sync, it will fire the flash before the shutter opens and your shot won't turn out.</p>

<p>All of this assumes the folder is a new enough one to offer flash sync. I don't think such cameras generally offered this feature until sometime in the postwar years.</p>

<p>One nice thing is that all old folding cameras use leaf shutters, so the flash sync works at all speeds. That's a real advantage over the Pentax 67 and it's 1/30th top sync speed.</p>

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<p>Hi Bruce, there's really not much difference in usnig a flash with older cameras. The difference is generally that they use a compur or copal type shutter in the lens rather than a shutter at the focal plane. This means the flash sync is generally as fast as the highest shutter speed, like 1/500th second. It's best if you can find a camera with an "X" sync to use electronic flash.<br>

My only concern on a 50+ year old camera might be a little more fragile and I wouldn't mount the flash on a hot shoe (if there is one).<br>

As for experiences, there are plenty of old shots of 50-75 year old cameras where a flash was used, particularly in the the 50's and 60's.</p>

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<p>As long as it has X-synch, which is present in Compur Rapid and Synchro-Compur shutters amongst others, then there is no problem. It will work with any flash that with synch to it via a PC cord. Flash exposure is via the distance scale (most reliable method), or using the autoexposure meter cell built into many flash units.<br>

Even if the camera doesn't have flash synchronization built in, you can still use open flash techniques. That is, set the camera on a tripod, use a slow shutter speed such as 1 second ( or just B) triggered via a cable release. You then manually fire the flash using the test button while the shutter is open. Actually, if you use the B or T setting, then while the shutter is open, you can paint your scene with multiple pops of the flash unit to evenly illuminate a large space, for example.<br>

Here's a crappy example of flash synch via the Synchro-compur shutter from my Zeiss Contessa, which is a folding 35mm camera with a Tessar on it. I was testing the minimum focus and flash at the same time. The electric eye on the flash took care of the exposure. The flash cost me $2 at a garage sale, but it works fine.<br>

Final caveat: with the Synchro Compur, you need to make sure that the flash synch is on the X setting if you're using electronic flash, not M (which is for flash bulbs).</p><div>00SM2D-108435584.JPG.2ef534f52126a1b2cda893436299f6d7.JPG</div>

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<p>Flash can be used with any camera that has a B setting using a technique known as shutter drag, with any flash with a Test button. This can be very effective in many situations. You can use either the flash on manual by setting the correct aperture for the distance, or use the flash set to automatic and get yourself automated flash exposures very easily using the recommended aperture. Most folders feature a tripod mount which can be used to attach a flash bracket.</p>
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<p>Pre-war 120 or 620 folders rarely have flash sync on the shutter. Post-war (1945 & later) more often do. However, the majority are M sync only, for flashbulbs. However, those that have a cocking lever for the flash sync, may wind up as X sync if you don't cock it. Also, it's often possible to have an M-sync shutter modified to X sync.<br>

Amateurs didn't buy electronic flashes until the 1970's, too expensive.<br>

The primary market for using flash was shooting ASA 10 Kodachrome, and Kodachrome didn't come in 120 size in that era.</p>

 

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<blockquote>

<p>Pre-war 120 or 620 folders rarely have flash sync on the shutter. Post-war (1945 & later) more often do. However, the majority are M sync only, for flashbulbs.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That may well be, but X sync really isn't that rare, either. It's not at all hard to find 50s folders on that auction site with Prontor-SV or Prontor-SVS shutters.</p>

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<p>I've got a Leica III with a PC socket, but so far it's failed to work with my Vivitar 283 and vivitar-to-PC cable. I think the central pin of the PC-plug is too short (or the circuit isn't closed when I fire the shutter. So for now I guess I'm looking at using it in a B or 1/sec setting</p>
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<p>I have used a Vivitar 283 or 285 flash with my folders (Zeiss Ikon Nettars, Mess Ikonta and Contina) often. Mostly for family gatherings but a couple times for a "special request" bridal shots. It works fine. I have yet to try it with my radio control system but one day soon and I will let everyone know how it works.</p>

<p>As mentioned above, don't trust the accessory shoe on the top of the camera! Those were for things like rangefinders, clip-on light meters...you know, light weight stuff. It's best to get one of those attachable brackets (very cheap in almost any Thrift store or *bay) and a PC cord. You get a better photo with the flash off the camera (less of that annoying shadow behind the subject) and saves the shoe from damage.</p>

<p>Just remember that the aperture controls the light getting to the film from the flash and the shutter controls the ambient light balance with the flash. Shutter in flash photography has little to do with stopping action, the flash does that. But if you want a better balance between the flash and room light, slower shutter. There's lots written on line and in books about this so I won't get into it. Just thought I'd put a bug in your ear...there are lots of creative things one can do with the leaf shutters in these old folders that are harder or impossible with a focal plane shutter. You will have fun once you get the hang of it.</p>

<p>Here's a quick "grab shot" of my set-up. It's my Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/2, 6 x 9 on a <strong><em>"free"</em></strong> (free is good!) bracket with my Vivitar 285. I don't usually use the 6 x 9 with flash but thought I'd give it a try.</p>

<p>BTW...I've never purchased anything from certo6 (tried quite a few times but always loose the auction) but I had him service the Nettar in the photo a few years ago and he does a fantastic job. You cannot go wrong with one of his beauties.</p>

<p> </p><div>00SMqs-108593584.jpg.1936e89ffb45439163b3ce26b8313d3d.jpg</div>

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<p>Bruce, the PC/HS adapter is just a basic generic brand that can be found in any reasonably stocked photo shop. You can get the dedicated Vivitar PC cord that fits into the side of the flash but I didn't bother trying to find one, the hot shoe method works as it should. You just need something to trip the flash at the appropriate time.</p>

<p>I've used my digital Pentax 540 a couple times and as David points out, it works fine. I feel (rightly or wrongly) that I can get more control over the output with the older more manual flashes. I just haven't spent any real time playing with the modern flash on the old cameras, that's all.</p>

<p>The problem with the M - sync setting on many of the older folders is that there is a built in delay as the bulb heats up to fire. So (if I remember this correctly...someone will correct me if I'm wrong) by the time the shutter opens the electronic flash will have fired. No flash for the picture :(</p>

<p>All of my Zeiss Ikon folders (Contina 524/24, Mess Ikonta 524/16, Nettar 518/16, Nettar 518/2) with the exception of my pre-war Nettar 515 have X sync. So, if you stay post-war you are pretty safe in that it will have what you want. If buying from certo6, ask him to be sure. He might sound "stern" in his listings but he's actually a very personable fellow.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>Not that I have gotten around to doing this yet, but on the PC sockets on older folders (i have some folders from the late 20- 30's that have PC sockets, may of placed after) that are set up for M-sync it is meant to be a very simple adjustment to alter it to work with electronic flash, I have few that have been done for me.<br>

<br />On shutters that have no flash sync socket; every now and again I go in search over the net to try and find some directions for how to add a X sync with no luck...one of these days I intend to pull apart a shutter with X (or M) sync to copy and see how it can be added to an shutter without it..just waiting for a shutter that wont be missed if it doesnt make it back from the operating table ;-)<br>

<br />The 'shutter drag' (havnt heard that name before, but sounds good) method mentioned by Patrick and Robert I have used, it can be somewhat arkward at times but at others is very usefull, I find it very usefull with my barrel lens veiw camera as well..what I really need is digital camera LOL so i can see approx results before using the more expensive sheets of film---would that be called chimping haha</p>

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