Nikon SB800 vs. SB900 flash

<p>I have a new camera that I haven't gotten to use at a wedding yet - it's my dream camera, a D700. I need a flash for this camera, I have a specific job in mind coming up, where I can use flash during the actual ceremony, very dimly lit room, not a church. I basically want to make sure that whatever flash I put on it is going to project wonderful light (of course) but is going to be a work horse and be able to stand-up to shooting for 5 hours. I know that the SB800 was recently discontinued however is still available. Based on reading reviews of both of these flashes I decided that the 800 was the better flash for me for a few reasons. My big red flag for the SB900 is that I have heard that it isn't as much of a work horse as the 800 and have read reviews from wedding photogs of their 900's over heating on them. That is a HUGE concern for me. I am just curious to know the various opinions of the photogs here. Anything you wouldn't mind sharing would be greatly appreciated!</p>

<p>Thanks,<br>

Anna</p>

<p>We used to use the 800 at work but just upgraded in November to the 900 and we find we get better exposures with it. It gets used for 1-2 hours at a time and we have no problems with it. It also takes 4 AA batteries compared to the 5 that the 800 takes. I would recommend getting a quantum battery pack though no matter which unit you get.</p>

 

<p>Thanks for your input Wesley, about how many shots are you taking with the 900 in that 1 - 2 hour time frame?</p>

<p>I don't use Nikon gear, so I can't say about a point by point comparison. However, the Canon line has something similar, in terms of overheating. The 580EX II has a safety feature whereby the flash will shut down if it senses it is in danger of overheating. The 580EX did not have this feature.</p>

<p>On the one hand, a safety feature like this is a good thing. On the other, there were reports of much annoyance at the flash shutting down at critical moments, and without much provocation. Personally, I would want a flash that didn't decide this for me, but then again, I use some judgement about abusing a flash this way. So far, I have not fried a flash. No flash can withstand constant firing without having a chance to cool down. I believe the guideline is 10 full or near full power flashes in a row, and then you give it a rest. I'm afraid digital shooting has made us all shoot more--a lot more--so safety features like this become necessary. Ask yourself--is it better to be able to fry the flash, or better to be annoyed on occasion, when the flash shuts down to protect iself? That's a hard one. Probably, the SB900 is as much of a workhorse as the SB800 in terms of build quality and reliability--it may just be one or two features which are annoying. Best to get to the bottom of the issues and decide for yourself.</p>

<p>Normally, I buy the latest model of a line, but in the case of the 580EX, I prefer the last model, not the newest, since there are other features about the latest model that also are annoying and not well thought out. I'd suggest more research and analysis, although if you can get the SB800 for a good enough price to resell without much loss later, you aren't taking much of a chance getting it. Same, actually, with the SB900--as long as you make up your mind about it soon after acquiring it, to recoup your money.</p>

<p>The 900 has better lens coverage.<br>

But the 800 has a higher guide number.<br>

My dealer says the 800 is being discontinued.</p>

<p>If you are interested in the SB-800, you may want to acquire one soon because there are hints that Nikon may be in the process of discontinuing it. People have begun to notice that it is no longer contained in the listings or inventories of numerous major online vendors. In addition, the few vendors that have them show low inventory. Nikon and Canon have a habit of doing this with products they discontinue. They show it on their web site and so on and don't make the announcement about discontinuing an item until the vendors' stocks are depleted. I have the impression they do this to help vendors maintain full price for products.</p>

<p>While I use Canon gear to make a living, but not Canon flashes much, I have a bunch of SB-800s that I use off camera with a Canon camera. This SB-800 is easily fired with a Pocketwizard, and it supports a mode called SU-4 (manual) where the flashes can be adjusted in 1/3 f-stop increments, which is what I use primarily. I primarily do studio work with Bowens Gemini Digital strobes. However, I have had various occasions to use my SB-800s as I described, including some architecture related work, where the Nikon flashes were scattered around to provide various point light sources.</p>

<p>With any such flash units it is essential to purchase multiple sets of rechargeable batteries and multiple chargers, so that freshly charge backup sets of batteries can be at the ready when the primary sets run down. I do not own an SB-900, so I cannot comment on it. However I suggest that you download the PDF manuals from the Nikon site and read them from cover to cover before making your final decision, and before Nikon makes the decision for you be deprecating the SB-800.</p>

 

<p>"But the 800 has a higher guide number."<br>

The SB900 has a guide number of 131 while the Sb800 has a guide number of 125.</p>

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<p>Everyone thanks so much for the responses, some have been particularly insightful. A lot of points to think about. I have frantically been online looking trying to decide which one I want as I noticed that Adorama who had the SB800 this morning didn't have that flash this evening... Amazon has it sold through CametaCamera for like $420, Penn doesn't have it... it ended up that the Ritz by my house had 2 left in stock so I just bought them both! I am going to try it out and maybe rent the 900 for comparison, if I like the 900 I'll probably add that flash to my equipment and sell the other 800. I am really excited about testing out the flash.</p>

<p>You might want to take a look at the Nikon iTTL flash guide here in photo.net: <a href="http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/guide-to-ttl-flashes/">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/guide-to-ttl-flashes/</a><br>

As far as I know, the SB-900 does not have any more overheating problem than the SB-800. However, only the SB-900 has a thermostat that can detect overheating, and apparently that thermostat is way too sensitive. In any case, you can always switch that feature off.<br>

The SB-900 is easier to use (a much better menu system) but is also a much bigger flash and therefore some people may find it inconvenient.</p>

<p>Older flash units are just as good, sometimes they're even better. I use an SB-28 on my D700. Never had any problems with recycling or overheating; it's robust and easy to use.</p>

If you use DX and FX lenses for your D700 camera, the SB-900 will detect them and adjust to narrow or expand the light beam, as appropriate. If you have older film TTL or older digital D-TTL compatible cameras, get SB-800, since SB-900 no longer supports older cameras TTL systems.

<p>Thanks for the link, Shun!</p>

<p>Frank, that feature was one that I really liked regarding the 900, I also like how you can 'shape' the light. Are you a 900 user? If so, I would love to hear about the flash from someone who is very familiar with the 900 and uses it for weddings and can testify to it being a wonderful flash as far being able to withstand use at a wedding. Even though you can switch off the auto shut down feature it concerns me that I have read so many reviews about the flash shutting down after 6 or so shots. I just feel that it might be a delicate little flower. </p>

<p>We use both the SB800 and 900's at weddings. Both produce beautiful light. My wife had the 900 overheat on her and now she only uses the 800's. The 800 is smaller and lighter, the 900 is a BIG flash. I like the 900 because it's easier to set up in wireless mode. In terms of overheating, it really depends on how you shoot. When the 900 overheated, we were in the worlds darkest church (may as well been a cave) and we were shooting at ISO 800- should have been at ISO 1600 so that the flash wasn't working overtime on each shot. Needless to say, it overheated after the 6 bridesmaids and ringbearer and flowergirl came down the aisle- just before the bride!!! Thank God for 2nd cameras!<br>

Mike</p>

<p>We use both the SB800 and 900's at weddings. Both produce beautiful light. My wife had the 900 overheat on her and now she only uses the 800's. The 800 is smaller and lighter, the 900 is a BIG flash. I like the 900 because it's easier to set up in wireless mode. In terms of overheating, it really depends on how you shoot. When the 900 overheated, we were in the worlds darkest church (may as well been a cave) and we were shooting at ISO 800- should have been at ISO 1600 so that the flash wasn't working overtime on each shot. Needless to say, it overheated after the 6 bridesmaids and ringbearer and flowergirl came down the aisle- just before the bride!!! Thank God for 2nd cameras!<br>

Mike</p>

<p>I use a D300 and SB800 with a quantum battery and have not had an overheat problem. I can pop off 7-8 shots in a row and no overheating</p>

<p>Anna, I have both and use a 900 on the D700. It is not prone to overheating so much as the software limitation (which can be turned off) kicking in.</p>

<p>I also have the 800's (three of them at the moment) and they perform almost as well.</p>

<p>I would say the 900 is every bit as much a workhorse as the 800, in fact more so.</p>

<p>If you leave the overheating setting on, it will cut out with rapid firing on some occasion. I believe the reason it does this, and the reason for the limiter in the first place, is that it can re-cycle in about one third of the time it takes the 800. That cuases the bulb to heat at least twice as fast and the limiter is set up to prevent over use (which the 800's suffer from greatly) and subsequently retain the life of the bulb far longer. The 800's are known to burn out on occasion.</p>

<p>The 900's are a better flash, no question in my mind.</p>

<p>While I've got no direct experience with the 900s - we use 3 SB800s and an SB600, all have performed flawlessly and I like their somewhat smaller size and weight. If that's important for you, the 900 is beefier and a bit heavier with a larger head. I wouldn't change now unless I had some catastrophic failures, because my current Gary Fong Lightspheres - which we use alot - are not compatible with the new sized flash head. --Rich</p>

<p>I haven't used the SB-900, but one thing that interested me about it was the button that lets you quickly change from commander/slave/regular flash when using CLS. The 800 requires going through some menus which can be a hassle with an impatient bride waiting. I'm not gonna upgrade just for that, but it does sound handy.</p>

<p>In regards to overheating, you need to take into account not only the number of flashes, but the power of each flash. A full power flash is vastly different than a 1/2 power flash fire. In my example, had we been shooting at ISO 1600, I doubt the flash would have over-heated since it would have been firing essentially one-stop less on each flash. I have done multiple frames at one time and not had a problem, but the flash wasn't firing at full power. Take 5 or 6 full power shots and your flash will quickly start to over heat.</p>

<p>Anna, I shoot weddings with a D3, D700 and D300, using sb800's and sb900 now. With the new Nikon bodies, I routinely shoot at ISO 3200 if I need too which dramatically reduces the load on the flash. I've never had an overheat problem with and sb 800 or 900. There are reports of the 900 thermostat shutting the flash down too early. My understanding is that the firmware update for the 900 has raised this threshold. As it's never been a problem for me, I haven't upgraded the FW so I have no first hand knowledge of whether that helped. My 900 has taken two falls from 5-6 feet onto hard surfaces without an issue. I've had an 800 fall from similar height and the wide angle diffuser, which wasn't even deployed at the time, snapped off.<br>

The advantages of the 900 as I see it are: 4 batteries, easy to change mode (slave, master, etc.) without menues, gel holder (helpful as I usually gel my flashes), quciker recycle, and perhaps most important, the head rotates 180 in both directions. I never use direct flash so this is huge for me. The only disadvantages are size and price.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hey Paul,</p>

<p>I have three snap neck 800's that work for the rotate :-)</p>

<p>What gel holder are you talking about? I gel a lot of the time too and admit, I have not read the manual yet. <<grin>></p>

<p> </p>

<p>The sb900 comes with a gel holder and a set of gels. The gels are coded and the flash reads them so it can set the correct white balance (supposedly).</p>

<p>Hi, I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but I recently found out the biggest cause for over heating in the 900 is caused by rechargeable batteries. If you use alkaline batteries and a Quantum Turbo Battery, you should be fine for the wedding. Reguardless of which you choose, no flash is currently on the market that wouldn't be damaged after 20+ flashes, so use with caution.</p>

<p>I was just browsing this topic after I read some info pertaining to overheating of the SB900. Believe it or not, the primary causes of the problem are battery and AF settings.<br>

It is recommended that primary batteries (non-rechargeable) be used. It was noted that primary batteries are pre-charged with 1.5 volts while rechargeables are 1.2 volts. Because of the lower voltage in the Re-chargeables, during repetitive shooting the batteries are under more strain to recycle thus becoming heated and transferring this heat to the thermal sensor causing a systematic shutdown of the flash. This also explains why using a battery pack allows the flash to work for longer periods with repetitive firing.<br>

Another issue is using multiple focus points. As much as it is practical, us single focus points AF-S.<br>

Try employing that which I suggested then report again.</p>

<p>When I shot Nikon, I had both flashes ... I preferred the SB800 on the D700 because of size ... the 800 is smaller and better balanced on the D700. If I recall correctly, the SB800 was faster for flash compensation than the SB900 which took an extra step. Flash comp was far more important to me than the other far less used features on the SB900. If using the off-camera Commander, then the SB900 is faster/easier to use.</p>

<p>I also had a SB900 shut down on me a few times, once at a very inopportune time ... I missed a decisive moment even though I had a second camera ... I could have taken a sludge-hammer to that flash I was so mad. BTW, no way would I go back to using regular batteries ... to expensive. The 800 never shut down, and it never fried itself either, even with repeated shooting over 8 hours.</p>

<p> </p>