Daylight processing for 4X5 B&W

The Jobo Expert drum is the only way to go. You can use an old motorized base to agitate. Originally I

purchased the Jobo 2500 series tank but had too many problems with inconsistent development along the edges using

TMAX/XTOL.

Stuart: Very clever.

Bruce,

 

Thank you. It's really nothing more than putting a square peg into a round hole! ;-)

Steven, did you have the 2509 reel, or the 2509n? If you had the "n" version, did you use the two black caps?

Their role is not only to keep the sheets from falling (they won't fall anyway), but also to help the chemicals

flow more easily and uniformly. Did you roll the tank back and forth, or one way only? You have to roll it both

ways, and make sure it makes at least one complete rotation each time. The only time I got uneven development was

when I didn't use the caps or didn't roll the tank correctly. Now I get perfect results each and every time.<br><br>

Michael, no 4x5" daylight development system is perfect. All of them have ups and downs. It's just a matter of

finding one

that has the most ups and the least downs, and this is only up to you and to how much weight you give to each

criterion. What seems like a minor annoyance to me could be an unacceptable flaw to you, and the other way

around. For instance, I've learned to load a Jobo reel quickly and correctly, and I don't mind having to do it. I

also find the quirky (and sometimes dangerous if you're not careful) lid of the Expert Drums unacceptable. On the

other hand, some people find the convenience of the easy loading drums more important that their quirks. None is

better than the other, it's just that every one of us has a different idea of "better".

John's statement that "The Jobo 3000-series expert drums are processing machine only." is not correct. Jobo makes a $20 roller base that the 3000 Expert drums roll on, and you can easily hand-roll the tanks for perfect processing. I put the roller base in a tray of proper temperature water, and this works fine. Colour developing and its higher temperature processes might prefer a processor, but for B&W the roller base is a good solution.

I used to do "taco" development with 9x12cm and 4x5" film. The results were fine.

 

But then I got hold of a Paterson Orbital, which is a sort of tray with a lid. It is very easy to load, takes four 4x5, two 5x7 or one 8x10 sheet. Best of all, it only needs 150ml of chemistry to develop the sheets, so works out very economical. Never had a single problem.

 

They can be difficult to find in the US, the easiest place is ebay UK (which is where I got mine from).

Just out of curiosity, what's the maximum amount of chemicals an Orbital can take? <br>

One problem I see with the Orbital (which actually might not be a problem, depending on the answer to the

question above) is that with very diluted developers you could end up with not enough active ingredients. Rodinal

needs at least 5ml of concentrate for a roll of 135 or 120 film (which means four 4x5 sheets). At 1+50 you end up

with only 2.94. The same goes for HC-110. It needs 3ml (Kodak later updated this to 6), and with dilution H

(1+63) you end up with only 2.34.<br>

Unless the Orbital lets you use quantities larger than 150ml when needed, developing four sheets at once in a

very diluted developer could be risky.

sadly, i have ventured into digital photography and no longer do traditional dark room. when i did, however, i used to develope my 4x5 film in plastic tubes. this was the system used by phil davis, and is explained in his book "Beyond the Zone". it is very inexpensive, and gives absolutely even development, and other than loading the film, is done completely in daylight. there is no chance of scratching the film, and you can develope easily six pieces of 4x5 film at one time. let me know if you need further information.

As I noted in an earlier thread, I use the Combi-Plan tank for daylight development only. I turn out the room lights at

the end of development, remove the frame with its six negatives from the Combi, and transfer it to a water bath in a

open-top utility tank of appropriate depth. After a minute or so there, I move it to another utility tank with rapid fixer.

These last two steps require less precise timing than the development step and are easily accomplished in the dark --

so long, as course, as you have access to a ventilated dark room. I've been very pleased with the results.

 

I will have to try Vic's suggestion of double-mounting film in the Combi's slots.

 

Based on earlier experience, I agree that the LF Yankee tanks are to be avoided. I had constant problems with

uneven development. I used their 35mm and MF tanks for many years with no problems, though I've switched to SS

versions now to accommodate more rolls at a time.

Hi

 

I've recently got some BTZS tubes which I now use. These aren't a full daylight system but are at least easier to load in the dark than the Jobo tank reels are (which I also have).

 

For single sheets (I have 6 tubes {thanks Ken}) I use 55ml of neat D-76 chemistry per sheet. Its the best results I've ever had.

 

They need to be loaded (and the caps screwed on) in darkness, but after that subdued light is ok when opening (and of course full light fine during developing with the caps on).

 

Back before I had a changing bag I made do with a large cardboard box which had two holes (one for each arm) for loading my reels. I think this would be sufficient here too.

 

I have made up a "holder" for the tubes which makes loading them easier and holds them 'mouth down' in greater darkness after I dump the developer while waiting for the fixer.

 

clearly this is by 8x10 but my 4x5's are simply much smaller.

Vlad

 

You can use more than 150ml if you wish, you just have to make sure it does not slosh out, and that you don't end up with the film floating. Some people do use up to 300ml of developer solution. BTW, I use PC-TEA 1+50 in 150ml, and that works fine.

 

I have developed 120 and 35mm rolls with 3ml of Rodinal, and not had any problems.

I've developed 4x5 film in a Jobo 2xxx and in the Jobo 3010. The small tanks can be used for only 4 sheets though they nominally hold 6, with 6 development is more uneven. The 3010 is superb, John Sexton, master technician, thinks they are the best. I got one, used it on a Beseler motor base until I got a Jobo CPA-2. B&H even sells a set of rollers that can be used manually as another poster noted. The 3010 gives very even results and while it is clearly designed for the Jobo processors, it works with other less expensive and smaller methods.

 

Good luck.

 

Eric

<i>"The small tanks can be used for only 4 sheets though they nominally hold 6, with 6 development is more

uneven."</i>

<br><br>

I've heard this claim before, but I haven't found it to be true. Admittedly my experience with the Jobo is

limited to just a few months, but in these few months I had no problem developing six sheets at a time. I don't

know if it's a matter of technique, or of developer, or film/developer combo, or of anything else, but I do know

that it's possible to get perfect results with six sheets. <br>

I'm not saying the Jobo is perfect, though. It's just a compromise, like all others. ;-)

I have and use the Yankee tank. Also, have, but do not use an old FR cut film tank. I am thinking about getting into 5x7, so will look into what's available in that. B&hphotovideo has a tank in that size, But, I'm not crazy about having to use a gallon of chemicals!

Paterson Orbital. I don't use the base, just use it as a tray with a light proof lid, and pick up and rock to agitate.<BR>

Someone queried the small amount of developer used - it will take about 450ml if you want.<BR>

I've started there and am working down carefully.<BR>

It will take four 4x5, or two 5x7 or half plate, or one 8x10.<BR>

You can do plates in it as well as sheets.

I have been using a Jobo 4x5 system for 25 years with great results. It holds up to 12 sheets, and by using more

chemistry than recommended (48 ounces instead of 1 liter), diluting out HC110 more than dilution B that I use for roll film

and lengthening the developing time to 10 minutes at 68 F, using a Unicolor roller and removing the tank from the roller

once every minute and agitating up and down 2 or 3 times, I banished the streaking problem that occurred with the Jobo

unit out of the box and following their directions. I started with an HP Combi, but had trouble with the slow chemical

exchange times and the flimsiness of the hold down for the film. I didn't break mine, but I felt that it was only a matter of

time...

Vlad

 

re "y 4 sheets though they nominally hold 6, with 6 development is more uneven"

 

I agree with you. I've also got the 2509n spirals in my 2553 tanks and the only time I get uneven development on the inner spirals is when I've not put enough chemistry in. I used some "glad wrap" to cover the end with water in the tank to confirm visually how much chemistry level the various volumes resulted in.

 

If you too are having no problems (I only did when I skimped on the chemistry) then I'd say don't worry about the experiences that other may have (as you don't know their methods well).

 

While they work fine for me I normally only need to develop 1 or 2 sheets at a time, so I use the BTZS, if I've been busy then I pull out the Jobo 2553 and put in two 2905n spirals giving me 6 sheets .

for daylight i started with a 2xxx, now use the jobo expert 3010, wouldn't go back. Note, you can make your own roller base, get a set of four small wheels at hardware store, attach to a piece of plywood cut for your tank. Custom roller base, and cheap

Well, 2 more cents here: my current busy life requires daylight development. For 10 years now, I have used the Combi tank. 2 minutes' presoak in water takes care of the uneven development and air-bubble problems. I agitate by inverting the tank toward me and away from in about 5 seconds, not by tipping one end or the other. I only put 1100 cc's in for 4x5: I like the extra air, I think it helps even out the agitation. I use the funnel and spout to introduce the developer--I got uneven development that way until I added the presoak. To keep life simple, I use D76 1:1, which I mix one gallon at a time and store in 275 ml pharmacy bottles, no air. That way I can load film (from Grafmatics), process, Photo-Flo and hang to dry in about 35 minutes' total. The short total time, of course, is the aim; my normally busy life does not easily yield darkroom time.

For what it's worth, I rate HP5 at 250, presoak for two minutes, give it 12 minutes 1:1 at 68 degrees. -1 is 8 minutes, +1 is 15 minutes.

I load in a dark bathroom, sitting backwards on the toilet (not very elegant, but it saves a sore back, and most toilet backs are about the right width). From a full Grafmatic (6 sheets, just like the Combi Tank) to lights on is about 3 minutes.

Good Luck, Michael. I like the simplicity of this approach; it works in motels, other people's houses, etc.

Oh, I forgot something. You will want ice cubes to get warm water down to 68, or a coffee coil to get cold water up to 68. I generally use a plastic motel ice bucket for a water bath. My whole processing kit for 4x5 travels in a milk crate...

I built one of these, but could never find the sodium carbonate for that final wash..

 

so it remains in storage, unused, but a fine light-trap indeed.

 

http://www.btinternet.com/~g.a.patterson/photos/lfdevelop.html

I started this thread http://www.photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00RMar without bothering to check if there might be one ongoing. (Sorry!)

 

Anyway, Dave Redman asked about spools for a Paterson tank, and this is exactly what I have discovered, a spool for a Paterson tank.

 

It isn't cheap, but if enough people hammered them, perhaps they'd back down on the price. If anyone is even slightly a good mold maker this thing can't be hard to imitate.