New Lens - new problems - Cheerleading

Hey all,

 

I recently bought a new lense - 17-55mm f/2.8 IS - I rented it last year for cheerleading nationals in Florida - and I got

some great shots I was really happy with. So I saved and bought it.. and now I'm just getting into a new cheer

season and I'm tackling high school gyms and their lighting. I thought the open aperature would be the end of my

problems... but I seem to be getting out of focus shots. Anything from the image below that you can comment on or

help me fix? Am I too far away or is my ISO not right? I have a competition this Saturday and would like to get

better results this time. Thanks!

Sorry, I'm having trouble posting a picture. I have a recent picture on my portfolio - it shows 5 stunts in the air and they are wearing almost all black. thanks.<div></div>

Here is another shot... lots of blurring.<div></div>

What camera are mounting the 17-55 on?

You're always going to get motion blur on a moving subject at 1/60s, so with some quick calculations

on your depth of field looking ok, that's your problem.

You could go up to ISO 1600, but a brighter lens would be a good bet too. How about a Sigma 20mm

f/1.8. Not too expensive. Otherwise a better body with higher ISO performance could be a way to go.

You're shooting at 1/60 -- not fast enough to freeze motion. Since you're already at f/2.8, you can either crank up the ISO more, live with the blur, or get a faster lens.

I know two things about gyms -- never enough light and what there is is lousy -- no contrast, saturation or specularity. IMO you need to shoot this with flash.<p>

--<br>

Henry Posner<br>

<b>B&H Photo-Video</b>

That'd be an awful lot of flash !

Let's set aside whether shooting with flash would be asthetically appealing. Officials tend to frown on the use of flash for athletic activities where children are flying in the air well off the ground, could be startled or momentarily blinded and could fall on their heads, becoming quadriplegics.

I have a Canon Rebel XT.... And yes, they are many events that outlaw flash so i'd rather learn without.

 

What does the 1/60 refer to? I have done a decent amount of photography, but simply haven't had practice in quite a while... I'm rusty. Help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutter_speed

Thanks!

From the EXIF data it looks like you were shooting 17mm, ISO 800, 1/60s @ f/2.8. As others have already pointed

out, 1/60s isn't nearly fast enough to prevent motion blur. That much I'm sure you gathered yourself by looking

at your own photos. So you need to either reconsider your composition (e.g. take pictures when the subjects are

static or moving verrrry slowly) or increase your effective light.

 

The light issue has already been discussed. You will need to a) get a faster lens, b) increase your ISO, c) use

flash, or d) use some some combination of all 3.

 

Flash would be the easiest, but this may or may not be allowed for reasons that Eric has pointed out. There is

also the issue that the intensity of the flash will fall off as 1/r**2 meaning that it may illuminate your center

subject just fine, but will overexpose subjects that are closer, and underexpose the subjects that are further

(giving the varying distance between the front group and the back group). Having said that, your best bet is

probably a combination of a fast prime (e.g. f/1.8 or f/1.4) combined with higher ISO. At least the lighting

will be uniform. Be advised that as you go to a faster lens and really open it up, your depth of field (the

range over which you will maintain focus) will be reduced such that it will probably not be possible to keep all

groups of girls in focus simultaneously.

 

No two ways about it, the shooting environment you are dealing with is challenging and you suffered some of the

pitfalls of the light-starved conditions.

I agree w/ Scott based on the EXIF data . I think If you can shoot in raw you will have a lot more to work with.

How would RAW help with motion blur?

If she is able to up her iso as high as possible, she will be able to increase her shutter speed, in Raw she will be

able to better deal with noise ,contrast etc. issues due to the high iso.

> Anything from the image below that you can comment on or help me fix? <

 

Yes, there are TWO issues IMO

 

1.

 

I agree that both images have subject motion blur, and that is because the shutter speed is too slow at 1/60s.

 

A practical way to deal with that same lighting scene and the equipment you have is: bump the ISO to 1600, shoot

RAW, underexpose about 1/2 a stop or so, and shoot around F2.8 @ 1/200 @ ISO1600, and then bring up the

exposure in Post Production

 

At 1/200s you will still have to time the shot for minimum subject motion – like the height of the kick - but you should

get more keepers.

 

***

 

2.

 

Have a close look at the areas on the subjects, which we could assume static - and then have a look at the mat.

IMO, both images are front focussed, and severely.

 

At FL = 17mm and F2.8 on an APS-C camera, if the focus were nailed at about 15 to 25ft (seems be where the main

pack is), you should have reasonable DoF from about 12ft to 70ft, which you do not.

 

1. Were you using AF, if so what AF point(s) were you using?

 

2. What Drive mode were you using - single shot or continuous?

 

3. What AF mode were you using - One Shot or AI?

 

FYI the thread below gives more detail about AF points AF modes and Drive Modes – the subject is a 20D, but I

expect the functionality applies to a the Rebel series – it certainly applies to the 400D, which I have used.

 

http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00RSXF

 

[specifically My post Nov 13, 2008; 12:48 a.m., then Nadine`s following - concerning the AF points]

 

WW

> At FL = 17mm and F2.8 on an APS-C camera, if the focus were nailed at about 15 to 25ft (seems be where the main pack is), you should have reasonable DoF from about 12ft to 70ft, which you do not. <

 

should read:

 

``At FL = 17mm and F2.8 on an APS-C camera, if the focus were nailed at about 15 to 25ft (seems be where the main pack is), you should have reasonable DoF from about 12ft to perhaps infinity, which you do not.``

 

Sorry the error and any confusion.

 

WW

Ali - I can pretty much gurantee that flash will not be allowed. Same with gymnastics. I wouldn't not even try it without asking permission from the AD. Even then, if someone gets hurt. a lawyer may be coming after you.

 

At 1/60 sec shutter spd, the motion of tripping the shutter may cause blur, esp if there is some subject movement. Need to be in the 300 - 500 range. Next figure out the aperture needed to get good/appropriate DOF (Depth of Field). Then push up the ISO to stop the motion blur for most shots. There maybe some shots that are better with a bit of blur. Shoot RAW.

 

So, go practice some more. Take a note pad and try adjusting the above variables.

I agree with William W about the front-focussing and his solution for getting better shutter speed with what you have.

 

My other suggestion is to frame as tightly as possible. It will help with auto-focus, light metering if you don't go to manual control and post production clean up will be better with more pixels.

 

You can see the main arena lights are off in the ceiling. What kind of lighting were they using? I've seen baton twirling events where they eliminate the overhead lighting and light from the edge. You end up with spotty, inconsistent light. And when the lights are like that, William W's suggestion of shooting a little dark will benefit not only the shutter speed, but preventing blown highlights from the uneven lighting.