Moving to M-8 what should I know?

I have been shooting filmwith a Nikon N90 and an heirloom Leica M-3. Now I am using a Nikon D200 and getting to

like the digital side. I now want to get back to RF photography with an M-8. What should I expect? Will

the work-flow be different than for the Nikon? What should I know about this camera? I have a 50mm Sumicron and

a 90mm Elmar. They will have to be “coded”(coated?) in some way I’m told: Will this keep me from using them on

the M-3?

The workflow will be basically the same. You will need an SD card reader. You will also want a 35mm lens to replace your 50, since there is a 1.33 crop factor. Your best choices, as far as I am concerned are the Zeiss 35/2, Leica 35/2.5 for price or 35/2 for more money, and I have had good luck with the CV 35/1.4. I like the Zeiss better though.

If you are going to use the 90, which I doubt, you should get a 125% magnifyer. You can get one cheap from HK.

 

You'll need to decide on the lens so that you can buy (or specify from Leica if this is a new purchase) the correct IR cut filter.

 

You can have the lens coded, or you can do it yourself with black and white fingernail polish. That works just as well.

 

The framelines on the current M8 are not that accurate, but the new M8.2 has supposedly fixed the problem. You can either buy a used M8 for about $3500 and spend another grand on framelines/quieter shutter, all of which will take about two months at the repair center, or you can buy a new M8.2 for $6400.

 

Good luck. They are great cameras to use.

Thanks Michael,

 

Sounds like you really know whats-what. I'm not clear on the IR filter remarks.. Why does the lense matter? I'm lost on this one. With the smaller sensor the 50mm becoms a 65 and the 90 is a 108 (or so), why won't I want to use the Elmar?

You get a DNG format file instead of NEF. DNG opens in raw just like NEF. You also get JPEGS if you choose.

 

You will notice the Leica files are sharper with slightly different colors to unmanipulated Nikon raw files. They will take about 2/3 the sharpening as Nikon files before oversharpening becomes evident.

 

In the end, they can be made to look the same unlike with film cameras. If you think that is worth $5000 plus, then get the M8. I think Leica will go belly up and you will be stuck with an unrepairable electronic orphan. Donor bodies exist for film Leicas and competent repair people exist to keep them going. No so with electronics.

 

You can home code lenses, but the marks come off. That is why they are recessed when done properly. But that is a non issue if you do not change lenses.

 

They do not have the reliability of film cameras, but it is fun to use just like a film M .

Different lenses use different size filters. If you want to avoid the camera's excess IR sensitivity, you would want IR filters for the lenses. (Not that there aren't plenty of DSLR's with similar excess IR sensitivity problems, but they cost less than the M8, so buyers don't expect them to be perfect.)

 

With 50 and 90mm lenses, coding isn't important, even with the IR filters. On the other hand, with 35mm or wider lenses, if you use the IR filter, you really need them coded as well. That's because the spectral response of the IR filters is very sensitive to the angle the light arrives at.

 

Plenty of folks use the M8 happily without IR filters on the lenses.

I don't understand coding the lenses...what information is coded for, the focal length, the aperature?

Thanks John, that really helps me understand. Didn't know IR sensativity was an issue for DSLRs too; guess I

should read more. I had been told that some folks were converting Nikon D-100 bodies to IR only for artsy shots.

 

Does thiss IR sensativity have any usefulness in low-light or at night....what about star-trails ?

IR sensitivity will make the colors in color pictures inaccurate unless you use the UV/IR cut filters (you can use the Leica filters or buy cheaper "486" UV/IR cut filters from other manufacturers, esp. B+W.) If you do not use the filter, the IR sensitivity can be used with a red filter to get pictorial effects like those of IR film, and in low-light situations tungsten lights give off a lot of IR so you can get some good IR effects under incandescent lights. The IR sensitivity doesn't extend beyond near-IR, however, so you won't get an effect light night-vision equipment.

Thanks Bob,

 

This is very interesting....these IR issues don't come up for the D200.

 

 

I am stil not clear on why the lenses must be coded; what information does the black and white stripes bring

to the body? Is it wisest aperture, or focal length or...?

 

 

The M-8 experience will be somewhat different than wih the film-M bodies...not just a matter of having ,say,

a "digi M-6" in the bag, and swapping lenses; not just picking up a used M-lens whenener a good buy might come

along. Are there any auxiliary finders masked for M-8 format out there? Are the new lenses for M-8 usable on

full-frame film M bodies?

 

Again: Thanks...everyone is very helpful.

The coding tells the camera what lens is on it. Not just focal length but individual lens identification; since lenses have different vignetting profiles this helps the camera adjust for both cyan corners and light falloff. It also allows the camera to put the correct lens identification information into the EXIF metadata in the DNG file.

 

The M8 experience is very similar to an M6. If you set the WB to "auto" and the ISO to the right value, and then shoot DNG in manual mode, you can even turn LCD review off and shoot EXACTLY as if you were using an M6. The new lenses are normal M lenses in all respects and can be used on an M6 as usual. The M8 finder is already corrected for the 1.33 crop, so you can just use the in-camera finder. You can simply convert using the 1.3 factor in your head and buy the correct finder for the camera (e.g. 28 finder for 21mm lens).

The B&W dots are just a binary code particular to each lens. In effect it tells the camera which lens is mounted - focal length and max aperture. But it doesn't convey "settings" - focus distance or aperture setting for example.

 

The dots guide the firmware with image post-processing - particularly in the corners, particularly for 35mm and wider lenses.

 

Leica decided to continue making all lenses suitable for both digital and film - there's no distinction.

...also...the M8 has built-in framelines for 24, 28, 35, 50, 75, and 90 focal lengths. (the 90 is a bit of a stretch, being effectively a 120mm rendering). For other lenses you need an external finder, or use guestimation. But when using an external finder you need to consider the 1.33 crop factor. For example: 21mm lens * 1.33 = 28mm finder.

In Germany prices dropped already about Eur. 900,- for the M8 because next week the M8 rev 2 is introduced.

About the Canon 5D MK II: The highest introduction price will be Eur. 2500,- ; expected it's less.

 

 

735200 Leica M8, silber 4.795,- 3.995,-

 

735201 Leica M8, schwarz 4.795,- 3.995,-

 

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"I think Leica will go belly up and you will be stuck with an unrepairable electronic orphan. "

 

Can you give me next weeks PowerBall winning number? If not, your predictions are useless....

I would suggest using the Capture One software for processing the .DNG files. It has settings specific to the M8, including moire reduction and the ICC profile choice that includes the UV/IR filter.

So...avoid processing M-8 captured images with my new CS3 package? Are the files not as well handled by

photoshop as the Nikon or Cannon files?

I have gotten a lot of very good information here: Thank you evferyone. After reading through this thread and

others again, I get the sense that going from film-M to D-M is not seamless and involves more adaptations on

the part of the photographer than when going from Film SLR to DSLR (at least in the Nikon system, what I have

and what I know).

 

 

And now...Wow! The S2 really looks great (except for price). So Leica CAN deal with these technical dugutal

issues and has the where-with-all to develop and bring to market an entirely new system. Maybe I'll hold off on

jumping into the M-8 for a while, and hope for an M-9 or or D-CL.

 

Thanks again, you have all helped me a lot.

I like rangefinder cameras, but I'd opt for a Nikon D700. A lot less money, and wayyy better high ISO performance.

And better protected against water...

 

an M8 has no weatherseals (for a street camera you can call that odd) so if water comes near it you have a big risk

I'd say that moving from SLR to dSLR is less complex than moving from SLR to dRF.

RF photography is different, but rewarding and the M8 is a pleasure to use, once you accommodate to using IR filters, making sure you have extra

batteries using the M8 is alot of fun. Photography at it's most basic.

You can always wait for a better piece of kit, but think of all the photos you won't take.

The IQ of the M8 is really quite special.

"And now...Wow! The S2 really looks great (except for price). So Leica CAN deal with these technical dugutal issues and has the where-with-all to develop and bring to market an entirely new system."

 

Only time will tell if Leica can actually deal with the major shortcomings of the M8. So far they have not done so.

 

Some of the users get nice photos. I bet they don't put the cameras to hard real world use. Those that do report the camera is just... not... there... yet. A $5000 camera that is not repaired because of 'product abuse' when put on a tripod head and turned 90 degrees? A camera one is afraid to take out and use in mist, fog, light drizzle, twenty below zero temperatures?

 

Are you sure this is a Leica we are talking about? The M4's do all that without problem and have for years. Every winter in below zero(farenheit) temps, thrown in the pack while back country skiing in the High Sierra, the Sawtooths and Tetons. Pull it out, shoot and even carry it on the chest with the strap and no case. Takes some falls in snow and ice but has never quit working. If I can take it I figure the camera can.

 

The digital EOS line works well in these conditions also. Batteries are the drawback but I keep two in the shirt pocket, under the jacket layers in real cold. The camera keeps working. Also works well kayaking though I have not dunked it, just got splashed on and wiped off.

 

I would expect any Leica to stand up to the same kind of use Eisenstaedt, Cartier-Bresson and others have put them to since the beginning. For the flagship M8 to fail in so many things that Leica historically works well at is shameful. Are you sure the Germans have not started hiring Russians in the factory?