About extending close focus range on an M3

Hi all. I was very fortunate to find a very clean M3, really in flawless condition. It was relatively cheap, due

to the fact it had some very small dings. No doubt that is why the owner (I live in Japan) felt compelled to dump it.

 

Anyway following Mike Dixon's advice, I bent the stopper arm to allow closer focusing. This had the effect of

allowing it to focus (according to the lens) to 0.81 meters. However, while the paralax frames extend to the

lower right, all the way to 0.7 meters the rf cuts out at 0.81m. Because the lens was very stiff (40mm cosina) I

traded it for a 50mm 1.5 Cosina. Additionally I wanted a lens that did not extend beyond the limit of the

camera's rf, as this is a bit disconcerting when focusing close.

 

I now find that it focuses past infinity. So, I have three issues. It focuses past infinity, the RF cuts out at

0.81, and the paralax goes down all the way to 0.7m.

 

Is it possible I threw the rf out by bending the stopper arm? Also, it is possible that if I get infinity to be

infinity then the RF will go all the way to 0.7m?

 

Incidentally, no Japanese repair shop seemed to be at all aware that an M3 can be adjusted to focus to 0.7m, and

none of them would offer a service to try and do this adjustment. Finally the camera is 1,004,000+ serial.

 

Please let me know anything you can as to how to proceed.

 

Cheers.

Send the camera to a Leica repair person, and throw away your screwdrivers.

DAG in US is best.

 

Good choice of lens.

You can extend a rangefinder's "range" only by modifying its design, NOT by bending or readjusting anything. So if

you make it follow the lens cam down to 0.7m, you will loose some of the travel at the inf positon. No wonder your

lens "focusses" past inf., I think it actually focusses as indicated on the focussing scale but the rangefinder goes

past inf now.

 

I think you messed up quite a bit following some advice of someone who probably does not exactly know how a

rangefinder works. What you have done is similar to misbending a speedometer's needle to reach a higher cruising

speed. Don't you think that if it was so easy to get the camera focussing to 0.7m Leitz would have introduced this

feature themselves?

 

A rangefinder camera is everything but ideal for close up shooting. Leitz manufactures mirror boxes for that purpose.

The only camera which focusses close up I know is the old Neoca S2 which focusses down to less than 2 feet, with

the rangefinder following properly. Unfortunately this camera does not have any kind of parallax compensation.

Winfried, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Are you familiar with the stop arm in the M3? There is a small

arm that stops the swing arm from extending forward further than 0.1 meters. If you bend this small arm back a little it

allows the swing arm to swing further forward, allowing the rf to focus on objects closer than 1 meter.

 

What I did has no effect on the infinity position of the rf which is a factor of another stop limiter, a round acentric cylinder,

which can also be adjusted.

Darius,

 

yes, you might have thrown the RF out by bending the stopper arm. I did this modification once, and it was easily correctable since my camera was only very slightly off at infinity (by doing the usual roller screw modification). In your case it seems quite bad, the difference between .81 and .7m (on the 40 Nokton I would think - the 50 Nokton has a min. focus of .9m) is quite big. Also note that the 50 Nokton could be off as well, and which LTM/M adapter you use is important. You should check at least one more lens before deciding how to proceed. At this point it is probably best to having it serviced, by Don, Sherry, or Youxin.

 

Best,

 

Roland.

Well, I bent back the arm, and at infinity, the Roppongi Hills tower from my house, if it is off at all, it is by a fraction. Also,

mysteriously, the closest focus is now 0.9m, the close range of my Cosina 50. Also, I ran a test against my Canon EOS

28mm lens, and it matched perfectly at 1m and 2m to my Cosina on the Leica. In any case, I ran a roll of 24 color

exposures at f1.5, and will get them developed tommorow, so the proof is in the pudding.

 

In any case, I spoke with a very reputable Leica repairman overseas, and he said this is the standard procedure for

extending the close focus range, and that it can do no harm. He said though that normally the RF goes to 0.7 and the

paralax frames cut out first, whereas in my case, it was strangely, the opposite.

Umm...DIY modification of a really good M-3 seems a poor choice to me. You wouldn’t think of bending anything on a current D-SLR. Leica had a range of close focus options. The 50mm Sumicron came in a close focusing version that had a set of add-on prisms for the RF windows. Then there are the various Visoflex combinations. Close focus and macro can be done with an M-3, why not do it right?

I did this exact same thing on my M3 to allows my 50 aspheric a little closer focusing. The infinity going out is a product of

the arm being bent too far. I have another M3 coming I am going to do this too and will bend it far less this time. M3 is fine

by the way.

Here's a link, showing it can be done (Winfried) <a href="http://leica-users.org/v25/msg15021.html">http://leica-

users.org/v25/msg15021.html</a>

Again: WHY modify a high-end classic camera by bending something (too much, not enough?) yourself? The Dual-

Range Summicron is available and does exactly what you want by extending the lense elements with a double

helical mount, and close-up prisms for the RF windows.

Drew, you are totally right. I should leave the work up to a pro. It is just that it seemed like a very easy mod. In a sense it

is. The camera now close focuses to 2.5 feet. However, the reading on the lens does not correspond to that distance, so

something is not matching up properly. I plan to take it to a pro tomorrow, and get everything lined up properly.

Darius; Sounds good to me. When it comes to these and other classic cameras, I feel that we who own them have

some responasability to future owners to be good stewards of these fine instruments. My M-3 is only a dfew years

younger than me, and I intend to pass it on to my son. I commend you for having this mod done by a qualified

indevidual with facilities and tools to ensure a professional job.

 

Keep an eye on e-bay for the Dual-Range Summicrons. There are a couple of auctions on right now that might

interest you as "projects" that would get you the close-focus capability you are looking for. Another option is

a combination of Visoflex, focusing mount and lense elements. Check out some of the older Leica manuals. One

is "The Leica Way" by Andrew Mathison, Amphot5o, 1922. Its got information on the M-4 and earlier bodies with

charts showing what parts and lenses fgo together. together.

I don't know what it is about this camera, but I was compelled to keep fiddling with it. I was up until daybreak messing

around with it. After zeroing out the stop arm, I created a small tool, to substitute for an offset screwdriver, and turned the

infinity adjustment screw to make it focus at infinity, which it now does perfectly, and then I tested it against other AF eos

lenses to see how the close focus is, and it too looks fine, now for some photos!

This thread has some confusing illogicals statements. With an older M or LTM the system RF is made to focus from infinity to 1 meter. The movement of the roller cam is the same as the lens block of a nominal 50 to 52mm lens; focusing from infinity to 1 meter moves the lens block and cam forward ( away from the film) by about 2.5mm ie about 1/10 inch. This is the basis of the Leica RF system. With a normal camera the cam doesnt hit any stops at 1 meter or infinity; its past these points so you do not ruin anything. Probably the wrong item was bent ; NOT the stop if the body now doesnt focus at infinity. The roller on a M3 is mounted on an eccentric; its the infinity adjust. The "gain" of the RF is by adjusting the pivot arms length; ie the distance from the roller cam to its instant center; the arms pivot. This is used for a close; say 1 meter adjust. One does both procedures over and over and "walks" the adjustment in; since they interact. With a Zorki one rotates the "pie cam" or "finger cam" for teh gain adjust; and uses a screw to set the infinity adjust.

Sorry, I am NOT familiar with the M system but with screw-mount Leicas which do NOT have a stop arm. I misunderstood

the original post and thought it was referring to the rangefinder coupling lever itself.

 

Anyhow, I do not think it is a good idea to operate ANY system (be it a camera or not) beyond its specs. You never know

how precise the rangefinder coupling will be in a range which was not considered by the designer. And rangefinder accuracy

has to be pretty high for close-ups.

The stop probably is further up the RF mechanism; ie in the top housing; ie hidden.

The nearest distance your can adjust on a M3 is 0.8M that's no more.

Sorry Dan, you are wrong. I have seen an M3 that focuses a 40mm Nokton all the way down to 0.7m. Want to cite some

documentary proof?