steven_berlier Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Hello, I am not sure if this is the right forum to ask this question in. I am not a beginner. I have been photographing a variety of subjects for years now. I currently own a canon 20D camera. I have a Canon EF 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS USM Lens and a 50mm 1.8 lens. I started shooting with the EF 28-135mm long before it was available as a kit lens. I have taken excellent photos with this lens. I have even managed to take better photos than many pro photographers in my city. (population 25,000) Because of this, I have decided to turn pro and compete against some of these photographers. I want to start off by doing event photography. This is my strong suite, I have shot many events and my results were better than some of the pros in my city. However, they have far superior equipment which gives them a huge advantage against me. My question is, how can I can I compete against these photographers when I am working on a limited budget. My photography skills are strong enough to survive in the industry but my equipment is not. How did you start out as a pro? Did you invest in expensive lenses? Did you buy cheap lenses and work hard to produce better images than the competition? I guess my question is do I need to have a large amount of money to be a pro? Is pro photography purely a money game or are there ways to stay competitive without buying expensive L lenses that you cant afford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Lease something to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted_springer Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 You should read this article: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/how-to-afford-anything.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eophotos Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 You should make photographs that suit your equipment and not try to think the other way around. A lot of Pulitzer prized images were made with a standard lens. Think out of the box. Get out of the beaten track and excel where others have neglected to look into! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullmetalphotograper Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I have been a pro since 1986 and I have never bought a L lens. Of course I shoot Nikon. :) I shot my first wedding at 16 by borrowing school gear. In college I work for two newspapers part time shot weddings, and college information office photographer. At 19 I shot my first NFL game. I work for Scripts League Newspapers, Pulitzer Newspapers and Lee Enterprises Newspapers. I am now a independent contractor specializing in editorial and commercial art. I am a little confused if you are getting better results than the competition, Then why do you need better gear? Do you want the gear to look more professional, or for the results? If you are getting better results then you need to focus on promotion, not gear. Here is my basic point of view before you by any hardware make sure you can pay your bills, keep a roof above your head and food on the table. If buying the gear is a hardship then rent it if you need it. If the gear will help you complete the job and pay for itself it makes sense then. If there is one piece of gear I would recommend for you right now is a good back up camera. Then buy the best glass that you can afford. Glass is forever, cameras obsolete as soon as they hit the market. I would say half of my lenses are 5 years old at least. Every piece of hardware I buy has purpose and use. The best equalizer in photography is technique. You can get great photos with good technique, but you can't get great photos with poor technique and great equipment. Every photographer has one great photo in them. A pro has to have great images consistently. I was shooting against a newspaper recently with a much larger budget than me, I was shooting Video and Stills. I was shooting the Nikon D2X & D3, Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8, Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VR, Tokina 300mm f/2.8. The video was shot with the Canon XL1s. The Fresno Bee had a Videographer and Photographer. The Bee was shooting Canon Mark II and 5D, with a Canon 400mm f/2.8, and a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8. So we even had the Nikon Vs. Canon, RAW (me) Vs. JPEG and the Independent Contractor Vs. A Corporation. I was shooting for Business Street a Monthly business publication. My Work http://businessstreetonline.com/news.php?ax=v&n=1&id=2&nid=666 The Fresno Bee coverage http://www.fresnobee.com/263/story/876198.html I like the way the Bee ran the protestor shots. But I like my wide angle shot of The Gov. Answering question to the press. My personal view is build your gear up as you shoot and as you need it and as you can afford it. Here are some basic things rules that I have learned. (1) There is always some out there who will have a bigger camera than you. (2) Technique beats hardware. (3) Don't worry about the competition worry about yourself. (4) The only time to read Ken Rockwell is after 1-2 bottles of Tequila, he might make sense then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMiller Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Don't plunge right in - start by trying to sell some of your images - that will tell you how well you can compete with the established pro's in the area. Read Ken Rockwell's article. Remember it is the Photographer who makes the difference - NOT his equipment. Once you have built up a reliable customer base then you can think about more equipment - leasing or buying - i have always found ebay a good source. I'm a Nikon user and know nothing about Canon but good fast glass was my priority to start with and then a couple of bodies. It helps me to take a Nikon D3 with 70-200 f2.8 VR lens and a D300 with a 12-24 lens - I find that this combo covers most things. Or if I wish to go really light I take the D300 with an 18-200 VR lens - horses for courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickArnold Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I had my own business. Pictures are what sell, not your equipment. I see one significant limitation to what you have and that is wide angle capability. I started, I think as it has been a while, with an EOS 650 and a 35-70 lens on full frame film at a newspaper. I did have quite good MF gear for weddings, however. That is no longer necessary today with digital. The problem with a business is that it is a business and has to be run like one. That means that selling your services and keeping track of your money is probably more important than your skill or equipment. You do have to be good enough so that you do not disappoint your customers. Over the years I amassed a lot ot equipment that was paid for out of the business. As Ron said, you can always lease if you need something for an event. Make sure your skilla are up to it. You also need backup equipment. If your shutter hangs up in the middle of a contract you have to have something to go to. More important than your skills is your marketing ability. One thing I don't see in your equipment is a good flash or two. You generally don't have any control over light while shooting events. I did a number of weddings at high noon near the ocean. Flash fill saved my bacon quite a few times. I knew how to use it to advantage and make it subtle. Flash can compensate to a degree for fast lenses but you have to be careful about what jobs you take on. Making money adds a lot of non-photographic dimensions to your endeavors like contracting with customers. I got screwed a couple of times going on trust instead of a good contract. I learned my lessons the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank uhlig Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 When all is said and done, the sad fact is that all equipment is limited by our mastering photographic technique and our artistic vision, our eye and knack of composition. So better gear is nice, but good gear goes a looong way to good pictures in the hands of a good photographer. Remember, even the 40000$ Sinar with a MF digital back has its limits. And so it is: good luck in your endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
william l. palminteri Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Here's what I've found...... Clients are impressed by gear, he more the better. Sad but true. If they're budgeting a big project, they'll defer to the shooter with 'big' gear more times than not. You just HAVE to get better results with more expensive gear, and lots of it (yeah, RIGHT !!). Unfair, sure, but that's been my experience !! Bill P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullmetalphotograper Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have not had a client impressed by gear. I had clients impressed by service. I Here is what I have found. The average client does not know the difference between a Nikon D3 and a Nikon D70s. The question I have been asked is can I get it done not what camera I shoot. The most I have been asked is can I generate an image or images, that will meet the clients needs, or if I can do the job. I think the gear is the photographers hang up not the client. It was like the first time I shot weddings to help pay for college. I was shooting 35mm SLRs, I would run into a local wedding photographers with medium formats. They would ask how I could compete with them when they had bigger cameras? My answer was simple' "with results". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Did you invest in expensive lenses? Yes and No, I bought quality (older model) Prime Lenses, but bought them second hand. I first bought three Prime lenses (35, 58, 135) and TWO bodies (135format), the following month TWO 6x7 bodies and two normal lenses, one a leaf shutter. *** > Did you buy cheap lenses and work hard to produce better images than the competition? < If ``Cheap`` means ``lenses I would not want to keep and use forever, when I bought them``: NO, I never bought cheap: I would hire, borrow, rent, pay off or lease a quality lens, if I needed it for a job. *** > I guess my question is do I need to have a large amount of money to be a pro? < Having Working Capital helps, no doubt about that. Spending Capital wisely such that there is most return for each $ outlaid is, however something many business owners are not good at: especially if they were amateurs in the same field of endeavour previously. Business owners who move from amateur to professional within the same field of endeavour, often tend to mix up business `needs` with amateur `wants` *** > Is pro photography purely a money game or are there ways to stay competitive without buying expensive L lenses that you cant afford? < With no disrespect meant to you, this question seems to me, to be that of an amateur photographer, with little business training or experience asking about a business: any business. The fact of the matter is, the business plan will address what outputs (Products & Services) the business will provide and to what demographic (Customer Base). From that point the plan should take into account what tools (Capital Items) are required for those outputs, to that demographic. I think you are putting the cart before the horse: and you are taking what gear you have and determining your business`s outputs around that. I think that is a mistake, it might be that your gear is sufficient, but it might not be. You need to carefully list what it is you might be called upon to do and then determine what the base kit is, you need to deliver; and also how you will supplement that base, should the need arise. In regards to the ``money game``: Any business is, at the core, mathematics. The way we keep score in business is usually calibrated with money. For you to understand how business works, my suggestion is you should start at the beginning, with a business plan and, perhaps some Capital Raising activity, and perhaps a basic, practical business course. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby_niel Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 I found the page -Photography Equipment and Supplies | Business.com, the providers of photography equipment and supplies. You can try out some magazines or internet sites. I think you can also visit your nearer outlet for such equipments. But make sure that your equipments should be quality oriented which gives nice pictures, and should not disturb your aim of getting good pictures. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_vance Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Just a couple more cents. If you are good with what you have and are better than those who have better, then buying newer, bigger, better just because someone else has it isn't always the answer or at least not something to rush into full steam. Some of the best photographs in existence were taken with cameras that very few would be seen in public using these days and the images still sell very well today. I tend to believe that the end product is what will impress people more, especially those who are paying for the photos and who care about what they are paying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 BTW: I also agree with just about everything Ralph and Dick wrote too. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_evans Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 You'll hear this a thousand times: "its not the gear, its the photographer". Its said a thousand times because its true. While its also true that your appearance at a gig with only a P&S might raise some eyebrows, I recently saw a video of a major fashion photographer illustrating just how good you can do with something like a Canon ELPH. Equipment will get you just so far, then you'd better have the talent or you won't be able to pay for all that nice f/2.8 glass. If you're already shooting better images than the competition, don't sweat the gear - make a plan, get a few gigs, and concern yourself with acting professionally and delivering what you promise. You'll generate more gigs and be able to purchase the higher end equipment without putting youself in a black hole too soon. --Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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