Travel images required for website in return for publicity and links

<p >I am looking for photographers who would be willing to give permission for us to use their images on our new website in return for some publicity. </p>

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<p >We are a new company who arrange travel for overseas visitors travelling to the UK or Europe. Myself and partner, have been in the travel trade for a combined 25 years and worked together for the same company for 10 years. We work only with other travel retailers and offer our expertise and knowledge in carefully planning tailor-made group and individual travel, as well as corporate, incentive and academic arrangements anywhere into the UK and Europe. Most of our clients originate from Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and America. </p>

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<p >I have spent hours searching the free travel trade image libraries supplied by various tourist boards and such like, but nothing captures us! Unfortunately, as a new company we don't have anything in the budget to allow for purchasing images but we would very much like to use photopgraphers work in return for promoting the photography by acknowledging that images are supplied by the individual, as well as a short biography on our links page, together with any relevant website information. </p>

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<p >If there are any photographers out there interested in helping us we would be extremely grateful! </p>

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<p >Tanya </p>

 

<p>Sorry but this is a joke of course. <em>Free</em> photographs to use for your <em>business - for you to earn money!</em> Excuse me if I sound angry, but I am. I try to make a living by selling hard-worked travel images to libraries, newspapers, magazines etc.<br>

What about this instead: "I am a photographer who needs to travel for business, so you give me a free holiday and I will add your link and bio to my website".</p>

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<p>Is this a joke? Do you really think photographers don't value their work at all?</p>

<p>Amateur photographers may be interested yes, people who've taken good photos purely for the enjoyment of it rather than to make money. We all have to start somewhere.<br>

We dont expect to have professional or even semi professional photographers who rely on their work to earn a living offering us their services.<br>

I really dont think it's a request that should make you 'angry' as it wasnt aimed at people who try to earn a living from photography. Perhaps we should have made that clear, but at the same time, I dont think it warrants these aggressive responses.</p>

<p>No, this isn't a joke, we have spoken to 'professional' photographers about using their images and we can't afford to <em>at this stage. </em>It was actually a 'professional' photographer who said to us that a few years ago, before he relied on his photography as his sole income, he would have gladly offered permission in return for some publicity and it was him that gave us the idea of asking if anyone would be willing to do this. Of course, we know photographers value their work and we would hope that there is 'someone' out there that will be proud to have their images displayed on our website in return for some publicity, and if we can help with any travel 'perks' we would be glad to do so. Sometime, it's not all about making money and as I said in my last post, we all have to start somewhere. </p>

<p>Sorry Tanya, I didn't realise you and your business were just aiming for amateur photographers who take great photos for pleasure. I didn't realise that you wanted to exploit these guys who perhaps imagine that by giving their great work away for free that they will then be on the first step of a success ladder.<br>

Sorry, it wasn't aggression it was just plain bewilderment.</p>

<p>On one hand I don't think $150 for several hundred images would kill your business (I hope you've planned investing some money in marketing). I'm talking abut micro-stock web sites, like <a href="http://www.shutterstock.com">www.shutterstock.com</a> - they offer excellent value for your money.</p>

<p>On the other hand, feel free to browse <a href="http://www.photoprospect.com">www.photoprospect.com</a> - you might be interested in the Landscapes album. I'm sure you'll find there something that you like - please let me know what you chose (for my information).</p>

<p>To the above posters - sorry, but it makes me happy to see my photos put to use. And the hassle of selling them isn't worth the effort in my current situation (don't get me wrong, I would love to work on assignment, but it's very hard to get into this business especially w/o leaving your day job).</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

Jean</p>

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<p>I don't wish to exploit anyone David, that's not my intention.</p>

<p>Thank you Jean. I agree $150 wouldn't kill my business, but these aren't the kind of figures that have come up so far when we have been searching for images. Perhaps I should have thought more carefully about the wording in my original posting and instead of saying 'we don't have anything' in the budget, I should have said 'we have very little in the budget'. I really appreciate the links you have sent me and I will take some time to study these and I will contact you directly about the landscape images you mention.</p>

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<p>Do you have any other suppliers who work for you for free? Do you take a salary or draw from the business or do you hope to do so in future ? Do the hotels or carriers you use provide a free service in return for a positive mention on your website? Promoting your business is not an option; you need to budget for it properly and use the images you think will support your offer, not just those you can get for free. </p>

<p>Buying a licence to use an image from a stock agency for use on a website doesn't cost a fortune , as my monthly statements from a few of them testify; especially if the image is to be small. If you don't want to do that make an offer to a photographer that you'll pay the going commercial rate (find out what that is from stock agencies and be specific) in a year's time if your business has survived that long. Just don't join the ranks of the clueless and greedy, trying to use a non-existent " the exposure will do you good" argument to appeal to the vanity of photographers. If Coca Cola volunteered to put my name on all their advertising materials, I imagine I'd be interested and that I wouldn't be alone. A newish travel company that no-one's heard of? No, sorry. </p>

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<p>I don't wish to exploit anyone David, that's not my intention.</p>

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<p>Best not to ask for free photos on a photographer's forum then. I don't think it gets much simpler, does it?</p>

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<p>A newish travel company that no-one's heard of? No, sorry.</p>

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<p>Indeed.</p>

<p>I'm with Jean on this, I think there are amateur photographers that would be more than happy to let their photos be used. I would, if mine were any where near good enough! I can understand that professional photographers would find Tanya's request cheeky, but she hasn't requested she wants 'professional' photos. I don't think the animosity towards her and her request is necessary. Asking someone for their photos to be given freely is hardly exploiting them. She has said they would be used on a website and that there is no budget, so whoever decides to let her use their photos knows that it would be for love not money! Financial gain isn't the aim for some photographers, having their work appreciated by others is more important. Personally, I'd like to be a good enough photographer that I could have people view my photos whenever and wherever freely, than only let the few, that are paying customers, see them.</p>

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<p>I would, if mine were any where near good enough!</p>

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<p>Maybe you should revisit the issue if and when your pictures are good enough, by which time you will be able to evaluate your own investment in terms of time, energy and money to get to that standard. You might well feel differently then.</p>

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<p>I can understand that professional photographers would find Tanya's request cheeky, but she hasn't requested she wants 'professional' photos.</p>

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<p>That's very much the point: 'professional' photos are ones that are paid for, and she want freebies so by definition she's not asking for pro photos. However, she's asking for good photos, for free (better, even, than the travel trade image libraries - which don't satisfy her) for a commercial purpose, to earn money with.</p>

<p>I have been vocal about protecting the copyrights of one's work.<br /><a href="http://www.photo.net/business-photography-forum/00Uu7v">http://www.photo.net/business-photography-forum/00Uu7v</a><br />But I feel that Tanya's posts here are receiving undued hostility. Unlike many who use photos without consent, or solicit photos with hidden agendas, Tanya at least makes clear her intent and terms of use, and the kind of photographers she is looking for. For that, I congradulate her for her idea, as well as for her honesty and clarity. OK, perhaps she will prove me a clueless sucker :-)<br />There are plenty of amateur photographers with outstanding work out there. For them, photography is not about making a profit. Jean and Diana, for example, would consider the terms of use of their work to be mutually beneficial. The pros will always feel that such "give away" is taking business away from them. But other than getting angry, there is nothing they can do to prevent others from making and sharing photos simply for the joy of it, and not for profit.<br />A few suggestions for Tanya:<br />- Your first post here is a rather controversial request. That may explain the harsh responses. But there are varied opinions here, and it may take you a while to develop a thick skin :-)<br />- Provide a link to your business. That will sustantiate your claim, let others learn more about your business (locations? $$$ or $$$$$$$$ per trip?), and the kind of images (landscape? culture? documentary?) you are looking for, etc.<br />- Browse through the net and here to find the kind of photos you are looking for and reference these sites as examples when you make your request. That will attract the photographers with the same genres and/or at specific locations. (If you had "spent hours searching", and couldn't find photos of your liking, something was wrong. You need to figure that out.)<br />- If the above sites are by amateur photographers, contact them directly.<br />- If you have established rapport with these photographers, you may even ask them for more images specific to their locations.<br />- Depending on how you feel about the responses here, you may want to try other similar forums.</p>

<p>Thank you Diana and Robert K, I am glad you understand where I am coming from and aren’t quite as hostile! <br>

Goodness, if I thought this website/forum was only for 'professional' photographers who earn a living from their photography I certainly wouldn't be here asking! I am not a 'greedy' person and I am glad that Robert K can see that I am an honest citizen; that is exactly what I was trying to do – be open and honest. I am just trying to start a new business venture that I am passionate about. My intentions are not to set up a huge commercial company; First and foremost I am a mum to 3 children and my business venture is all about enjoying what I do. <br>

I don’t want to exploit anyone or use anyone’s photos to earn money from them. The only way I wish to earn any money – eventually - is by making specialist travel arrangements and enjoy doing it. All I want to do is build a simple, but recognisable website with some individual images. <br>

In answer to your questions David - no, neither my partner nor I take a salary, nor do we draw from the business, we don't employ anyone, and so far, yes we have been very lucky to receive lots of free help from many suppliers/people and I have returned the favours. There are ways and means of helping one another without it all being about financial gain. I am insulted by your comment ‘in a year’s time, if your business has survived that long’ – thanks for that. <br>

Alec – I don’t think you will find I am asking for ‘better’ images than the travel trade libraries offer, we just haven’t been able to find anything we like in the travel trade libraries. It’s not about whose images are better or worse, it’s just finding something that we like – is that so wrong? <br>

Thank you for your points Robert K, which I completely take on board – I am always happy to take advice and learn by it, and I appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. On this occasion I am not going to pursue my request via this or any other forum. <br>

I thank all the people who have e-mailed me directly with the offer of using their images – I am extremely grateful and I will be talking to you all about ways in which we can help one another. </p>

<p>I don't mind giving low resolution images similar to what I post here on Photo net if you credit me. If you wanted the full res ones for publication then I would expect a little in return.</p>

<p>..oh, and I promise not to feel exploited either.</p>

<p>Tanya, I just wanted to add that I don't think your request was out of line at all. Maybe if people were more willing to help each other out it wouldn't be as hard for businesses like yours to make it or for small businesses to "survive that long." <br>

To others - The thing I don't understand is when the photographers on here go out and take pictures for the joy of taking pictures, but as soon as someone ASKS for permission to use the image all of the sudden you hear, "do you know how much time, effort, and money I've put in to these pictures?" I'm not saying give your photos to anyone who asks, but if you don't have a problem with what the person/company asking does or represents, then what's the issue? Put the ego aside, you're not special. I doubt there is a landscape picture out there that hasn't been taken before or won't be taken again.</p>

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<p>Alec – I don’t think you will find I am asking for ‘better’ images than the travel trade libraries offer, we just haven’t been able to find anything we like in the travel trade libraries.</p>

 

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<p>If the travel trade libraries' pictures suited your purposes then you'd use them. The fact they don't means you need something more suitable. Confusing the technical quality of a photograph with it's "goodness" is a beginner's error - a good photo is simply one that suits the purposes of the person who uses it.</p>

<p>The point being that the stock value of a photograph depends mostly on its content. Pictures of generic sunrises are ten a penny on iStockphoto - but if you want sunrise over a particular valley in New Mexico and can accept no other location then when you find that right photo its value is higher. It has rarity.</p>

<p>The pickier you are about the content, the more you should be prepared to pay. Which is, I think, at the heart of what I dislike about your post: You're saying "we have free pictures from libraries, they're not good enough (not right); we want to be pickier, but we don't want to pay." I really really hope that you don't find them.</p>

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<p>Maybe you should revisit the issue if and when your pictures are good enough, by which time you will be able to evaluate your own investment in terms of time, energy and money to get to that standard. You might well feel differently then.</p>

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<p>I might, but I don't think so. I am not learning photography with any intention of having financial gain. I used to paint, I also used to give those away to people that appreciated my attempts at being artistic. I would rather have someone appreciating my work than have it sitting in my spare room gathering dust. My time, energy and money is put in willingly, in return for that, I gain a sense of achievement and also knowledge and experience.</p>

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<p>That's very much the point: 'professional' photos are ones that are paid for, and she want freebies so by definition she's not asking for pro photos. However, she's asking for good photos, for free (better, even, than the travel trade image libraries - which don't satisfy her) for a commercial purpose, to earn money with.</p>

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<p>Thank you, I take on board your point about the definition of 'professional'. There are plenty of amateur photographers that are far more talented then some 'professionals', they just choose not to make money from that talent and I don't think there would have been much point in her asking for bad photos. As I said before, I felt Tanya was being totally up front about her intentions and I don't think she deserved the animosity shown by some of the posters. </p>

 

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<p> On this occasion I am not going to pursue my request via this or any other forum. </p>

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<p>Don't let this put you off the forum, in general they are a very helpful bunch. I have read lots of very interesting and informative posts on here and found some very helpful posters.</p>

<p>Stuff like this is what's killing the photo industry.<br>

Tanya, would you arrange a trip to Europe for me? I'm a student and don't have very much money, so I'm afraid I just don't have the budget to pay you, but I'll tell all my friends how great your company is.</p>

<p>Well said, Riley S.</p>

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<p>Stuff like this is what's killing the photo industry.</p>

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<p>Should we stop asking/giving advice on forums? Cos that must lose a lot of business for photography teachers. You can't stop people giving away their own work or knowledge, it's theirs to give.</p>

<p>Soooo, Tanya.... If you want photos for free, then I suggest you go and buy yourself many thousands of dollars worth of high-end equipment and software, put in countless hours of study and practice over at least several years, and then pay to travel to the locations you want photographed. You'll of course be putting in lots of very hard work into capturing some great shots -- if you have the talent for it.</p>

<p>Then once you've done all of this, can I have some of your best shots to sell on my website? It would be a great chance for you to get some publicity.</p>

<p>My point is that photos are not free to the photographers who take them. Why should they be free to you? What makes you so special? FAIW, Tanya, the professional photographers you refuse to pay for their hard work probably make far less money than you do.</p>

<p>And to everyone else who would give Tanya your photos for free, just remember that you're helping to starve out some professional who can't sell his/her work to Tanya for any price. (ANY price is greater than free.) Even if you're an amateur, PLEASE charge something for your work! Also remember that whatever you charge is what we have to charge, because we professionals are in competition with you, whether you think so or not.</p>

 

<p>I really don't think you can equate the two.<br>

Joe Bloggs isn't going to pay someone to tell him what kind of camera to buy, or to explain what the difference is between a 'fast and slow lens.'<br>

On the other hand, someone designing a website or putting together a book would (in theory, as of course this seems to be changing) pay a photographer to provide images.</p>

<p>Tanya - I think your request is reasonable within the constraints you define. I am sure you will find some photographers willing to contribute.</p>

<p>Can you provide a link to your company's website that we can view? Personally, I would want to view it before giving away something gratis.</p>