jaycobar-chay Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 My sister is getting married. Everyone in the family knows I have a camera and they like what they've seen of my abilities; they all think I'm good. As most ignorant people do, they think I can shoot events (such as a wedding) and do a good job. I try to explain that I'm best when things are sitting still and/or when there is plenty of sunlight and that event photography and/or indoor photography is best left to the pros, but this is an El Cheapo budget wedding, so my advice falls on deaf ears. I have a Canon 10D, which is totally awesome for low light, NOT! Lenses I have: Canon 50 1.8 Canon 100 2.0 Canon 28-105 3.5-4.5 Sigma 17-70 2.8-4.5 I have no flash unit. I don't like flash and have never learned to use it. Everything will be available light. A couple of questions: 1) Assuming I don't get any new gear for the shoot, I'm interested in hearing ideas for the best way to do it with what I have. 2) If I need to get something else to do it, what should I get? I figured I wouldn't upgrade my 10D until I had so much money I could wipe my butt with it, but I suppose its time to get at least a 20D, which I understand is much better at low light/high ISO shots than the 10D. I suppose I could buy a used 20D and sell the 10D after the wedding to offset the cost of the upgrade. That way I'll have two bodies on me during the shoot. My lenses... Do I need to pick up something else more suited for versatility and low light? The wedding will be held in a very small building, so I figure a lens with reach will be too tight. I have no idea how many windows it has, if they will be open, or if the place will be lit by candles. I was thinking of buying/renting an image stabilized lens. Probably a good monopod as well. Suggestions anyone? How do you meter for a wedding? Black tux, white dress; zone system nightmare for someone that hasn't done it before. Usually I just trust the camera's meter and shoot Aperture Priority. Its not like you can walk up to the pulpit and get a meter reading off of the tux... Any advice will be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_martines Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 You are between a rock and a hard place. Many places who hire salesmen hire anyone because the salesmen will first sell their family and when they find out that they aren't good at sales they quit. The accounts now become house accounts and the family is mad because they no longer are serviced by the relative. There is a lesson in here somewhere. Some people try to save money by cajoling a relative into a service which may cost them a lot of money otherwise. You have a lot of decisions to make. Have you ever tried to herd a bunch of cats? That is what wedding photography is like. Have you ever shot a wedding before? My advice is that if you really want to maintain a family friendship that you really think twice before agreeing to something which could prove to be a total disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotograf-aurel-virlan Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Hi Jacob, _ There is some different aspects: 1). do you ever shoot a wedding: there are people, moments, lights... 2). D10, D20, D30 are not good enough higher than 400ASA... 3). Do you have your personal site or blog, to discuss about photography with other people ( I am so sorry, but I don't knew your work as photographer)... think deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_shanahan Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 it doesn't matter whether you like flash or not. buy one, or rent one, and learn to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward_brewington Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Hi Jake. Try and bail out on this one. I have done this before. It really doesn't work. You are family and as such you WILL be pulled into the festivities. Just when you will need to be there as a hired hand. You WILL miss a lot of shots because family will only see you as family and therefor get in the way. Family won't see you as the photographer that is there to do a job. No sir they won't. You WILL also run the risk of starting a family feud,because so and so wants you photograph something when you need to be focused on the B&G. Bad karma on a job such as this one. Hire a Pro. Sit back and enjoy the festivities. Shoot some photos if you want ,but do it as a guest. No pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie_caswell Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 For a change, I actually went as a guest twice this summer and it was SO refreshing not having to shoot. I'd say heck no! This is a family event and you should want to enjoy as well. This should be a day you enjoy instead or working and stressing. You mentioned a few reasons why I would pass... 1) lack of experience 2) Uncomfortable with your skills 3) It's your family affair 4) You are considering additional investment in gear So many reasons not to shoot. Most importantly, without proper education on bouncing flash, fill flash etc... (ie... thousands of clicks during real events in various lighting circumstances) you will give her nothing but blown highlights and shadows caused by the flash. My advice... You would do better posting on Craigslist. I'm sure you would get 10 offers to do it for basically nothing. Sort thru them and select the best. Since you are considering other gear purchases, why not put that towards a professonal? $500 would go a long way, even if only for a few hour basic package? Pass the hat among friends and family and give them the best wedding present they will ever recieve... a professional photographer. Good luck and best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregf1 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Don't do it, if your not comfortable. Even if it's cheap there are always some wedding photographer looking to for a 1st or 2nd gig to build a portfolio, who will provide reasonable prices. Good luck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Rather than spend the money on a 20D, I'd get a flash and learn to use it. Unless your sister's wedding is to take place in nothing but bright locations, you will not be happy with the results, even with a 20D. I would use the 10D with the Sigma and also the 50mm and 100mm for low light and the latter for reach. With a flash. You need to find out whether flash is OK during the ceremony. If so, use it. If not, get a tripod and use the 50 and 100mm lenses. IS isn't going to help you that much if it is candlelight only. Use Program and One Shot and a flash. Don't use AV inside or in dim light or you will have blurred images. Learn how to compenstate both the ambient and flash metering (two separate things). Don't get fancy. Just concentrate on getting what happens, on your focusing and keeping organized so you don't miss things. Be sure you have back up gear, lots of batteries and memory cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_shilling__sacramento_ Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 There is tons of information on the forum regarding how to approach a wedding as a newcomer, many of which discuss having equipment limitations as well. I think your equipment is fine if you dont plan to be a wedding photographer. You absolutely NEED flash though. Bright, sunny day? flash for the shadows. Indoor reception? bounce /fill flash for sharper pictures. Buy an SB800, or even an SB 600, and practice. check out www.planetneil.com once you have. The idea of hiring someone from craigslist isnt a bad one. If its their first wedding though, you may as well do it yourself... my first wasnt bad, but wasnt good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwrtertbsratbs5 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Offer to take candid shots, and suggest that an experienced professional should shoot the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkdds Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 IF you do shoot, you should know the 10D is notorious for inconsistent flash exposure. Exposure is keyed to the focus point and if you lock in on black tux... poof overexposed. and vice versa for white dress. It almost forces you to shoot manual flash as ETTL with the 10d is HORRIBLE. A way around it is a single focus point lock in on the face and compensate accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjkdds Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 This info is from Chuck Westfall interview about this issue with the 10d. I own a Canon EOS 10D and am shooting weddings with the 550EX flash, CP-E3 battery pack, and an EF24-70mm f/2.8L lens. I come from over 20 years of shooting weddings with MF and manual flash. I shoot with the camera on manual, typically ISO 400, and typically at f/5.6 with an Omnibounce. I can't seem to get consistent exposures even though I am not focus-locking and recomposing. Short of moving to a new camera, is there anything I can do to achieve greater consistency? The EOS 10D, which was replaced in 2004 by the EOS 20D and subsequently in 2006 by the EOS 30D, used the original version of E-TTL, which has a flash metering pattern that is very sensitive to variations in the reflectance of subject matter. Because of this sensitivity, wedding photography can be difficult with this camera unless you essentially "trick" the flash metering system into an averaged flashmeter reading that looks at the entire picture area rather than the small zone around the active focusing point. There are two ways to do this when using Canon Speedlites with an EOS 10D: 1) Set the focus mode switch on the lens to manual. This setting forces the flash metering to be averaged across the entire picture area. 2) Leave the focus mode switch on the lens set to AF, but use Custom Function 4-1 on the 10D and refrain from autofocusing during the exposure. C.Fn 4-1 initiates AF from the AE lock button on the back of the camera, but it averages the flash metering pattern whenever the AE lock button is not being pressed. Using this approach, you would autofocus the subject first by pressing the AE lock button with your thumb, and then make sure to lift your thumb off the AE lock button before taking the picture. Either of these techniques should improve the consistency of your flash exposures during wedding photography with the EOS 10D and a compatible Canon Speedlite, but if you're looking for something better than that, I would recommend upgrading to a current EOS model with E-TTL II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 If you end up without a flash, you may consider using a tripod....and hope the bride-and-groom can stay still for 1/4 second or so of exposure for indoor shooting. And you may reference http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00QEvp for more information on "to do" or "not to do" a wedding for a family member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 There is a very simple answer to an EX flash on the 10D. Get a Vivitar 285. Much cheaper and if you learn to use it, actually much more consistent than ETTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_yee Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I did a wedding a week ago w/ the flash in auto-thyristor mode (SB-28 on a K10D) and the images where flash worked came out fine. There were lots of technical details about interacting w/ groups of people and getting white balance, etc. right that I didn't realize until partway through the wedding. It's not a good thing to do w/o experience in lighting (I've been a strobist for a while but most strobist situations are static) or in herding cats. As for doing your sister's wedding, do a search for "sibling's wedding" for lots of sage advice I got. I'd agree w/ most of it. Either you're in the wedding or you're photographing the wedding. Ask your sister if they want a wedding album with only 3 pictures of you in it? That's one way to get out of it and you probably should. I was luckily only a guest with a camera (though the bride/groom expected more than that) so it was a relief to have the paid photog catching all the important moments. If you really have to do it, rent gear because you need a bunch including a flash and extra body. I ran the Sigma 17-70 for my shots as well as the Sigma 10-20 and 50/1.4 for "interesting" shots but a 17-50/2.8 would have helped a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronda Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 My niece wants me to shoot her wedding in a couple years. Even a couple years from now I doudt I'll be good enough to shoot a freakin wedding a once in a lifetime event. I have told her I'm not a pro I have told her I'm hit and miss she still thinks I'm a pro because I have a 5D like the camera automatically makes me a pro "duh" I think what I'm gonna do is hire a pro as a wedding present for her. I'll tag along with the pro and get some tips and maybe learn something, and maybe if I'm lucky I'll get some good candid shots. Eather way I'm gonna save headache and family peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Here Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Because of financial reasons, I agreed to shoot a niece's wedding. One camera body, one flash, lots of backup batteries and SD cards.... It all turned out much better than I could have hoped, but I was a nervous wreck! It's not worth it, contribute to the fund for a pro and since you helped hire, then you can feel free to tag along and learn. Look through all the wedding shots here on PN and note the ones shot without a flash.... you won't want to do that to a sister! She'll haunt you for life :-) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpo3136b Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Yes, you can do this. But, in order to be successful, you need to set some limitations before this thing ever gets started. Here's what I recommend: 1. If she wants this done the way everyone really does wants this done, get her to hire a pro. It'll be important to her; it would be money well spent. 2. Don't buy any new equipment. Use equipment you've had for years and know well. You'll be nervous. 3. Do not try to photograph the whole "wedding." Try to get three good photos of the wedding party. You might want to try: Bride in her dress, bride and groom together, maybe a lineup shot of the bridesmaids with the bride, or some other kind of group photo. Okay, if you have no other options, how do you do this? You plan it. Most of these simple shots can be planned in advance, and are not necessarily time-sensitive with respect to the actual wedding ceremony. Nothing in this crude three shot plan about "I do" or a dramatic kiss or a running out the doors or anything there. How do you meter this? Black cloth, white cloth, draped in folds right about where the bride and groom will stand, at the same time of day, on a day other than the wedding, with no other big group in the church so that you can meter and compose to your heart's content and rehearse the three planned shots that you have to do because you couldn't hire a pro and get out of it. If I was stuck in your shoes, with no other options but to do it, I would rehearse, rehearse, rehearse those three shots. Then, when I got my technique down, I would tell my sister that's all I can do, but that's what I know I can do. And when you're rehearsing and planning all this, just a simple note taped to the camera is not going to cut it for a plan. You need to be able to move in a way that will get you those three shots without interfering with the ongoing ceremony and the group activities. Don't try to shoot the whole wedding. As soon as you wrote, "zone system nightmare", I lost a little confidence in this proposal; wedding photography as a genre is a refined form of reportage that large groups of people pin their sentiments on. One false move, that permanently trashes her otherwise perfect wedding, and it's a lifetime of "Bridezilla" for you! Help her out. Contribute to her wedding and her memories with your camera. Practice and plan to take three good shots that could be really valued by her in the future. But, I wouldn't promise to do the whole thing if it is beyond your skill level. Get her to hire a pro. If you're really broke, and it really is you or nothing, bust your chops to get those three good shots; tell her the truth about this in advance so that you don't get her hopes up too much. By the way, I don't shoot weddings. Good luck. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Here Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Jacob.... As I sometimes do, I have opinioned before research. I have gone to your portfolio and I must say, it's impressive. You do see and understand light..... so, if you do get pressured into this, then get a flash as soon as possible, a bounce diffuser (I like StoFen), and practice. With your eye I think you can pull this off! Oh yes, KEEP your existing camera body... you want to be totally familiar with your camera because there will be too many distractions during the wedding. Ok, just my $.02 worth - Break a Leg!! MIke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_ludwig2 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Been there, done that for two sisters-in-law and one brother-in-law. Never, ever again would I consider it. Herding cats is an apt description since nobody respects your needs to have people there on time and in place and this was in spite of the fact that then wife and I owned and operated a very well know professional studio. Even the wife, who was my wedding assistant and damn good at other peoples weddings, suddenly lost all perspective in those events and lost all respect for me and the time needs of the projects because it was her frigging family. Shooting family events is very often a disaster and this has tragedy and ongoing anger written all over it, so my suggestion is take the money you would spend on the new flash and other gizmos and use it toward hiring a pro as your gift to your sister. Maybe enlist the other siblings and parents to pool their gift money to get someone who has experience and is both comfortable and good. Good luck with this one. "The only way to win is not to play!"---'War Games' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 After Michael mentioned it, I went to Jacob's gallery. Jacob--go to planetneil.com, under Techniques, about using on-camera flash and study. Get yourself a Vivitar 285. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_mankey Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I'm sure it is hard enough when you're just the wedding photographer, let alone a member of the family that people are going to want to socialize with. My advice, stage a car accident and tell them all your camera equipment was destroyed in it. If necessary employ fire to make it convincing. You may need to go as far as inflicting wounds on yourself but I think it will be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john schroeder Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pankaj purohit Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hellow Jacob, Here so many other friends have realy adviced you very good thoughts on the equipments and techniques and some of those are very good. I would only add that Just keep confiedence in your abilities and skills and use those. Just now concentrate more on the event where you are going to shoot and do remember that it might be a chance in which can change your life/career. I would also say that before shooting the main marriage, you should practice some night time people shots with some lighting equips. at different ISOs so that you can judge yourself what and how to do. Just be confident and sure and beleive in yourself, everything will be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_robles Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Honestly I wouldnt do it. My friend asked if I would shoot her wedding and I said sure, even though I have never shot a wedding before and let me tell you it is nerve recking! If you are going to shoot it you def need a flash unit. If you have a hotshoe the pics will come out alot better without needing to go over a high ISO. Maybe you should buy a hotshoe and then take them out for like an engagement shoot to get used to the flash in and out of doors. After your first wedding youll feel alot more comfortable with it. But knowing your flash is key! The only reason why I wouldnt shoot a family wedding is because if I messed it, like them putting on the rings, the "I do kiss", and stuff, I would be afraid to hear it from the whole family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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