iMac vs. Dell PC! Please help

"Not very customizable

 

Very expensive to upgrade "

 

Considering that Mac and PCs share many parts, Apple's are no more expensive. Just don't buy parts from Apple. New memory, hard drives, video cards, etc, all available at the local computer store or via discount retailers. No magic here.

 

And Consumer Reports rated Apple's the best (again) in reliability:

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/computers/computer/desktop-computers/desktop-pcs-mac-computers-sub/repairs-reliability-desktops/brand-repair-history/index.htm

I use both Macs and PCs on a regular basis. Let me clear up a few misconceptions first:

 

"If you upgrade a Mac you void the warranty!" - No. Check the warranty. If you add memory or a new hard drive

you will not automatically void the warranty (usually), however, if you have to send the computer back for

repairs you will have to restore it to the "factory supplied" configuration, which means pulling out memory

upgrades you installed and swapping the original drive back in. This is *exactly* the same as *every* PC vendor

- Dell, HP, etc.

 

"Macs are less upgradeable/customizeable/etc!"

Yes and no. Imacs are, by their nature, less upgradeable in that really you can only upgrade the memory (I'm not

sure if the video card can be upgrade, it's possible it can be just as some laptop video cards can be upgraded).

They're designed to be a compact, all-in-one computer. Guess what, PCs aren't very upgradeable either. Usually

by the time you're ready for a significant upgrade the you won't be able to plop a new CPU into your existing

motherboard - chipsets, socket designs, and memory specs change every 1-2 years. You are going to be buying a

new computer in 3years if you want to perform a major upgrade no matter what type of computer you have.

 

"Mac memory is more expensive!"

Not since the 90's. Macs use the same type of memory as PCs, you can buy 3rd party memory and install it

yourself. It's no harder (and in the case of my Titanium Powerbook much easier than) installing memory in a PC.

You find the access panel, pop it open, drop in the ram, and away you go.

 

Oh - regarding the virus issue: Yes, OS X has fewer. It's not immune to getting hacked, but the OS does seem

more resistant to the type of viruses seen on Windows due to a variety of factors including fewer services

exposed to the outside world by default and being built on a platform that is just better about sequestering user

level programs from OS critical space. Does that mean there will never be viruses/trojans/whatever for OS X?

Nope. Does that mean there are likely to be fewer? yep.

 

So - the real question is which operating system do you like more? You are obviously familiar with PCs. Do you

have a friend w/ macs or is there a computer lab or apple store nearby? It took me a bit to get used to the OS X

way of doing things as opposed to the Windows way, but honestly I much prefer OS X these days. Traditionally

Apple has spent far more time than Microsoft developing a user interface that is user-friendly, and it shows.

Find somewhere where you can give OS X a try - sit down for more than a couple of minutes and use the computer.

See how you find and launch applications, see where it stores things by default, etc.

 

Whichever operating system you decide on, you'll be happiest if you decide on a budget and then spend up to that

budget. Don't choose the N$800 PC if you can afford a N$1600 PC+Monitor, bargain PCs are usually junk. The one

thing I can say about Apple is generally you get what you pay for - they cost more because they are built to

higher levels of quality control and they're overall better engineered. Looks are part of the price, but the

beauty is more than "skin deep". ;)

Here I used Photostyler on a PC with windows then used Photoshop 2 on a Mac; then upgraded to Photoshop 2.5 when it came out in its PC version; ie turned in the Mac based Photoshop license for a PC one. At first the performance on a PC WAS less than a Mac; about version 3 Photoshop ran well on a PC; Adobe FIXED the memory issue. <BR><BR>Since then this teething issue about Photoshop running worse on a PC has been preached over and over as an agenda to sell Macs; even after the old Photoshop 2.5 problems on a PC are long gone. <BR><BR>Many Mac folks are happy with their boxes; and issues of them not working are small; and rarely talked about. Its not in many Mac folks DNA to even pop the hood to add memory; they pay others to do it.<BR><BR> Here the dual core Imac 20" is just another computer; it not any faster than a windows box with the same cpu and ram, for me its radically slower; like being in a rental car from hell where everything is hidden. It would be as fast as my PC's to use if I rewire myself to understand it better. <BR><BR>Here many of the older PC's I still run are true blue IBM's; that were once the dream photoshop boxes back in 1996 running NT with dual cpu's. We once had 13 units of the same model running; now its done to about 6. TWO power supplies of the group of 13 have failed in the last 12 years; one was on a surplus unit from ebay. To say that a mac is better engineered than a quality PC is a stretch to fit the canned bs dogma. Macs are a religion; their usage is often great. What is discord to a PC user is that Macs are preached as always the better machine and that all PCs are crap. Its a cult like scientology; getting the best mac makes one brain clear. <BR><BR>There is NOTHING WRONG with using a Mac and liking it. What is wrong is the petty doom and gloom mac agenda that PC's are always a sewer of issues preached by many folks. <BR><BR><b>FEW FOLKS mention getting the same type computer; software; OS as a local buddy to bounce off issues; knob-logy; where is this function on ones photoshop rig</b>. Here If I hire another retoucher for my business I really dont NOT CARE a rats rearend if they use my Imac; IBM PC; or Red hat box with GIMP; or PC with GIMP to do the work. What matters is getting the work done on a timely basis. Most of my computers are not always connected to the internet; thus one cannot be wasting time online when retouching needs to be done. Online a Mac or Linux box is less prone to picking up dog manure from the internet than a PC. .

PC versus Mac will always be debated. Its like dwelling one whether a Ford or GM pickup is better to haul manure; or Planar versus Xenotar; Canon versus Nikon; UCLA versus USC; Michigan versus Ohio State.

Michael Nigro wrote " NEVER attach your graphics computer to the internet. Buy a cheap used notebook for surfing the web."

 

With all due respect, Michael, that is just plain ridiculous. Every Mac that we have, and that we have had for the last 15 years, was on the

internet, and none had any problems with that.

I'll always use a PC because I'm arrogant. I have way too much money in my PC(s) to have a change of heart at

this point. Why do people seem to complain about Windows so much? You don't HAVE to do what it tells you to, it's

not your lord, it's a computer. One of my professors is an architectural photographer and he has absolutely no

idea how to operate a computer outside of Photoshop itself, so in that aspect there's no difference it's the same

thing.

 

What's this about rebooting all the time? I never reboot my PC, it runs all day and night unless I run a big

update. Nothing can ever outperform a PC as much as all of you will disagree. (When money doesn't matter.) Mac is

like a cult. Windows is like a parent for their idiot children but still allow their children to make a few

decisions by themselves and then STRONGLY suggest otherwise no matter what the decision may be.

 

Plus I play games. =)

Carl; its abit more dangerouse to have a Graphics Box connected to the internet all the time if its a PC and one is a duffus; or has employees who like to screw up stuff; or; if the user is careless and likes to download free and pirated software; if you get free exe files from your buddies "to try out". Also its more dangerous to have you buddies or fellow workers install unknown software on ones PC too. Likewise one might be walking on steets only with a Mac; and also walking thru the woods; on cow pastures; on streets with a PC. Dumb folks that stick patties in their mouths from the cow pasture; or step on the patties will have problems. The Mac disallows the poorer non street paths; the cocoon of what God Steve allows folks to do is good for many folks who are careless. Many PC's just run slower; or boot up slower with time due to the mess of crap folks add. For folks who are assuming and like to run nude on the internet a Mac provides a better route; the clean streets only.

<i>I think the reason Mac users like to bash on Windows so much is because they no idea how to use computers

properly, and for that reason the crippled software in Macs is perfect for them. I spent less than 2000 dollars on this

computer, the specs are as follows:<br>

<br>

Gateway 22 inch LCD Intel Q6600 quad core overclocked to 2.8 ghz 6 GB DDR2-800 Mhz RAM Gigabyte P35 Mobo 500

gb HDD Nvidia 8800 GTS 512 Mb 700 Watt PSU Mid-tower case OEM Vista 64 Bit</i>

<p>

{sigh} Why doesn't the attitude surprise me? Yeah, you're probably right, Ryan. Mac uses just don't know what they're

talking about. Of course, this is where the math gets fuzzy with home builders....<br>

Ryan says he built this PC for under 2000 dollars and I'm sure that's true. However, this looks to be a fairly state-of-the-art machine.

What Ryan values, no doubt, is the ability to upgrade the heck out of this box any way he likes, and I'll wager he will do so, to keep it

current, over the next several years. It's interesting if you start adding all those costs up, to see what that PC will really cost Ryan

over its lifetime, and comparing that to another machine that may work correctly out of the box and have a much longer functional

lifespan. If you have to have the latest thing every month, then by all means, a PC is the way to go. Just keep in mind that those

upgrades don't drop out of the sky for free.<p>

<i>"I have 10x more software compatibility than a Mac"</i><p>

Funny, since I'm running Windows XP on my Mac, I'm wondering how that's true. Maybe you don't know what you're

talking about or how to operate a computer correctly.<p>

<i>"I have worked with Macs, and see them crash just as much as XP/Vista PCs, and are even harder to diagnose as to

why because of Macs poor error system."</i><p>

Please explain the Mac's poor error system.<p>

<i>"I work in Jamaica, so I can't simply dump a Mac and get a new one if it breaks, or easily send it to Apple to have

repaired like in America."</i><p>

Clearly a problem that affects us all.<p>

<i>"Please just remember PCs are not as bad as Mac users make them sound, they have just bought into Steve Job's

bull.</i><p>

Good thing you don't have a axe to grind or anything, huh?<p>

Ryan is a lovely example of just the sort of person who SHOULD be running windows - a technical person who likes to

show you that they are more technical than you are. Ryan's overclocked PC will serve him well and make him feel

superior to Mac users and, indeed everyone who he feels has "no idea how to use computers properly" and didn't take

the time to home build. If you feel the same, then by all means, build yourself a PC gaming rig and crow about it smugly

in any forum that'll have you. Building your own PC (which I have done both personally and professionally for, I'm

guessing, more years than Ryan has walked this earth) is a trivial task that nets you big geek cred, and Ryan's post

exemplifies. You'll be the hit of the WoW chat room. Or, perhaps, photo.net.<p>

-c

Short but sweet answer: Get a mac.

 

I bought one 2 years ago and have never had a problem with it. I have used window based PC for most of my life and have always had problems with them many critical problems which left my buying new hard drives with in a year of use. Spend the extra money and avoid many head aces with Vista.

It doesn't matter to me which platform anyone uses. I have not bashed PCs, which is more than some PC users in this

thread can say concerning their Mac comments. Most of the PC folks complaining about Macs are way off base, their

complaints don't match my experience, and that of other Mac users.

Kristian: do your research. The Apple web site has several articles about moving from a PC (which I assume you now have). The site also has a good tutorial about adding memory to an iMac. No need to pay Apple prices as you can do it in a few minutes for half price. I will be ordering a 24" iMac shortly to replace a five-year-old Dell PC. I find the cost difference to be small when one adds in the extra software needed for a PC: security, intelligent backup, device synchronization, etc. Plus NO registry!

Hi Haleemur Ali.

 

Mac OS X is not only derived from unix, but it is unix http://www.apple.com/macosx/technology/unix.html. Mac OS

10.5 is certified to run UNIX software - most Mac users don't bother though.

 

Your post general proves what pro-window people say. The assumption that the OS is effectively the same between

the platforms and therefore hardware/price is only difference. A computer is not just a photoshop terminal, but

a way to interact with your work and do other things. One of my favorite features on a Mac is Expose. Microsoft

made a pale imitation of it in Vista. Likewise, some Window-> to Mac -> back to Windows transition people I know

hate the Dock on the Mac and pointed out some things they don't like in OS X. There are differences in how you do

things between the platforms. For most hardcore Windows users, I would never suggest a transition to Mac.

Especially if they are used to Windows keystrokes, have a windows software library investment, and enjoy

tinkering with their computers. For people who are sitting on the fence and asking about the Mac, I strongly

believe they should try the other platform because sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

 

Ironically, if I had to go back to 2000 - I would tell everyone to buy a Windows PC. Apple was abandoning System

9, Mac OS X was a mess, the hardware was doing radically things like not even including floppy disk drives (very

controversial when the iMac was released in 1998), Win 2K was super stable and showed the good future of Windows

software development, etc etc. Mac got my interest because I was hearing good things about the OS (Mac OS 10.3

was when things really got better), it's better OS design principles. Then the Intel transition sealed the deal.

If I don't like the OS and how things work, then I can go back to windows. I like the OS and how it works so much

that I have never touched bootcamp or even touched parallels to run Windows software. I started my transition in

2005 and finished in 2007 when my last windows PC (which I built - I remember using PCs starting around DOS 3),

would no longer boot up and I didn't care to trouble shoot it anymore. The parts were donated to my Windows using

friends.

 

Its amusing that now I encourage people to try Macs if they are open to it (compared to 2000), while you simply

state that Windows PCs are just simply better focusing only on price/hardware as well as suggesting the current

mac users are just inertial carry over users from 2000.

 

PS I strongly believe that there should be both healthy populations of Windows and Mac users. As long as there

is competition, both Microsoft and Apple will improve their OSs. Oddly most of the Windows posts seem to want a

non-existent Mac population. The other funny thing I have observed is that most Window users complain about

Microsoft and make jokes about windows (BSOD anyone? three finger salute?), but throw in a Mac user and suddenly

Windows is the greatest thing out there.

Hey everyone!

 

First of all I want to thank all of you for the massive response! Im really blown away with all the answers, which is so much more than what I expected!

 

Charles - Well, it seems like you really know what you are talking about! hehe, I must say Im quite sure I wont use Linux, since I really dont have enough knowledge to operate with it. I have also decided that I will not build my computer, again because of my lack of knowledge. But thanks alot for your response!

 

Daniel - I found you post very informative! the "save your money for new lenses" advice never fails. it is in my opinion one of the best advice which seems to be very normal in here aswell. The thing is that I have spent probably 80% of my paychecks the last 4 months on upgrading my photograhpy equipment (Canon 5D, EF 17-40 L, EF 15mm fisheye, EF 24-105 L, 50mm 1,4, among other things such as Lowepro Slingshot 300AW, a reflector ect.). So I really feel that I will have that covered for a while (concerning both camera body and lenses). the only lens I sometimes wish I had is a nice 85mm for portraits, though I feel that I can live without it for a couple of more months. My next investment will be some pocket wizards and a canon 580 EX with some softboxes, but this will have to wait till later.

 

As you mention in your next post, I have recently bought a western digital external hard drive for my photos. And I must say that I cant understand why I didnt get a card reader until a couple of months ago.

Thank you so much for your opinions!

 

Allan - If I would go for the PC I would never used Vista. I have heard alot about people using vista on computers which is not powerful enough to run it clean, and have faced so much trouble because of this. so I would definetly run Windows XP.

 

Christina - Your setup looks awesome. My plan is also to have one monitor for all the tools in PS so I can display the image fullscreen in photoshop.

 

 

Well, it looks like I have deicded to go with the iMac. At this point it looks like I will get the 20" with 1GB ram, and then upgrade to 4GB ram on my own. (a friend showed me how to do this, and this way I will save alot of money). If my paycheck for this month turns out to be more than expected I will go for the 24".

 

There are several reasons why I made this decision. one of them, and probably the most important, is that though I've always been working on a PC, I really like to operate on a Mac. Another reason is Virus. as some of you mention, this will not make a big difference in the future but i have had so much trouble with my computers that a system with less risk for Virus sounds amazing. A friend of mine went from PC to Mac some time ago, and he thinks the Mac is going so much cleaner that the PC. Its very important to me that my computer runs clean, because i have spent waay to much time with my computers freezing and such. (I guess a proper PC would run very clean aswell). I am not a gamer either, so I wont need to be able to rum any games on it. If I was a gamer, I would definetly go for a PC.

 

About cost. I have done alot of reseach on PC prises in Norway, and there is really not that much difference between an iMac and a PC if the spesifics are about the same. The difference shoots in when you start building your own computer, but as mentioned, this is not a thing I will do this time, though you really can save alot this way.

 

 

I would like to thank everyone for your response! I have really learned a lot.

 

Thanks again.

Best Regards,

Kristian

Great choice on going with the Mac.

I am a software developer (accounting and business) and consultant who supports both systems. All my programming is done on

Macs but also works on PCs with the same user interface. I have been in business since 1985 so I have quite a lot of horror

stories to share. In business and specially in accounting data security is critical thus the importance of running high quality

hardware. In 20+ years of business I have never had a Mac customer loosing data, the same is not true on the PC world.

I have had customers happily switch from PC to Macs, only one did switch from Macs to PCs after an ownership change. Their

own experience has been a total disaster, imagine a chain of 20 restaurants loosing 6 months of data after a server crash and

realizing that the 'so-called' automatic backup system wasn't doing its work as designed for.

In the last 20 years running a business on Macs has not always been easy as Apple had quite a few years of bad designs, bad

marketing, and overall bad management. Yet the computers were sturdy, not the fastest by far but simply workhorses.

Nowadays the picture is completely different. As a small business choosing a platform is even not a choice anymore, if you want

quality hardware, top-notch operating system, and peace of mind you have to go with a Mac system. The operating savings are

much higher than the meager purchase price difference. You save on training, on support, on repairs, and more importantly on

consulting and maintenance fees.

The only people that would recommend PCs over Macs are either Mac ignorant, love building their own stuff, or are involved in

selling or supporting PCs. It still takes 2 to 3 times longer to accomplish some installation and support procedures in Windows

than it takes on Macs. When you bill on an hourly basis that makes a huge difference.

The biggest problem you'll run into with an iMac, any iMac, is that the LCD panel is not the best quality (nor the shiny,

glossy finish) for editing photographs and printing them with color accuracy.

 

I have been a Mac consultant for over 23 years - I wouldn't steer you wrong. If you want the best color-accurate

photographic editing platform, buy a MacPro with an NEC Multisync 2690-WUXi display and Solux proofing desk lamp

and an HP 9180 or better HP printer and you'll be a very happy photographer! John Paul Camponigro, one of the best

photographers, printers and color consultants in the world, has gone on record that the NEC display is the best, most

color-accurate he's ever seen. Between the MacPro, the NEC, the Solux lamp (for proofing) and an HP printer (with

pigment colors), you'll get the best results you can possibly achieve.

 

Good luck.

 

Matt

Here the dual core iMac 20"unit we bought used was built in 2006; and only holds 2 gigs of ram, Beware some of the older iMac 20" models are hardware capped at 2 gigs; not 4 gigs.

Regarding the monitor - get the 24" if you can afford it, it seems it might be better for photo editing, but the new iMacs do have support for an external monitor, so that might be an option if you need a better display in the future.

Matt - Yeah, a MacPro with a decent monitor would be great, and this is something I would definetly do if I didnt have a budget. this time I will have to go for a more inexpensive solution. Compared to the computer I have right now, I think probably anything new will be amazing, hehe! But thanks for your advice.

 

Kelly - I did check if I can run 4 GB on the 20" I will buy. I can buy one with 4 GB from the store, but if I install the Ram by my self I will save (equal to) 300 dollars. so I guess this is the way to go. :)

 

Jonathan - If I can afford it, I will go for the 24".

 

Regards,

Kristian

Kristian, You need to beware that if you buy a new computer from an Apple store or one of its reseller, installing your own

memory may void the warranty unless you are very friendly with the guy who owns the shop. If you buy a secondhand one

there may not be such issue.

I think you have mad the right decision to get the iMac. The Mac monitor have always been very good with few

exceptions. As you said it will be an amazing and rewarding experience. You can make your Intel Mac run your favourite

Windows versions anyhow. My wife got a Intel Mac laptop with view to run PC programmes now and then. She NEVER

had to do it as there have been virtually no need. Have fun. Take lots of photos...Kind regards,

Adding memory to an iMac does NOT void the warranty. Apple offers instructions for doing it, and OWC has a video that shows how to do

this very simple operation. The most difficult thing about it is getting the correct #2 Phillips head screwdriver to fit the screw in the iMac. It

is designed to use the same #2 that is used for wallboard screws, and the fit needs to be exact if you don't want to strip the head off of the

screw.

@Hung Nguyen, Carl is right about that. No voided warranty for installing own ram.

I used a Mac at school and I use a Dell at home. Both will work fine for photograhy using CS2 or CS3. The problem you run into when you post a question like this is that 99% of the PC users don't really care a whit about their computer as a computer, they use it as a tool and nothing else. Mac people tend to be fascinated by their computers and so you'll hear a lot more from them about how great their Macs are than you will from PC users. That tends to also produce inane statements like "The only people that would recommend PCs over Macs are either Mac ignorant, love building their own stuff, or are involved in selling or supporting PCs." The Macs at school were great so I have no quarrel with anyone who recommends a Mac. But my latest - 3 years old without the first problem - Dell has been great too. Nix nox, look to things like price, local service, that sort of thing, to make your decision because the brand as such is unimportant for your purposes.