Am I going to die of cancer? (developing photo paper)

Thanks everyone for your replies.

 

I think I'm just going to go ahead and try it in the bathroom. I have an A/C vent on the floor I will turn on and kick on the exhaust fan and get some rubber gloves. I'm planning on only use Kodak Dektol for developing and Kodak fixer. I'm going to try water for the stop bath and water for the final rinse. I'm not looking to get super-duper professional prints from this. I figure if I even make it through a pack of 25 sheets of paper before I get bored, it will be a huge success.

I think the following is apropos:

 

 

A freshman at Eagle Rock Junior High won first prize at the Greater Idaho Falls Science Fair, April 26. He was attempting to show how conditioned we have become to alarmists practicing junk science and spreading fear of everything in our environment. In his project he urged people to sign a petition demanding strict control or total elimination of the chemical "dihydrogen monoxide."

 

And for plenty of good reasons, since it can --

1. cause excessive sweating and vomiting

2. it is a major component in acid rain

3. it can cause severe burns in its gaseous state

4. accidental inhalation can kill you

5. it contributes to erosion

6. it decreases the effectiveness of automobile brakes

7. it has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients

 

He asked 50 people if they supported a ban of the chemical. Forty-three said yes, six were undecided, and only one knew that the chemical was water (H20).

 

The title of his prize-winning project was, "How Gullible Are We?" He feels the conclusion is obvious.

y'all just took the fun out of the darkroom, - don't drink the chemistry! C'mon! what else am I going to drink after my 5th beer? :)

 

As I am learning all of this stuff myself to support 3 film cameras now, I find I don't worry about stuff all that much. My first attempt in the darkroom was acceptable considering the handicaps. I have concluded I do not like the tongs everyone sells, you can't really get underneath the print paper in the tray. So I used my hands. I also washed my hands regularly.

 

I think people worry too much about stuff they have no control over. Life is the leading cause of death...

Yes, safety data sheets are important and should indeed be read carefully. They'll only tell you what is legally required. The circumstances that you use it in are at least, if not more so, important. And I keep repeating that to be used safely a lot of chemicals need professional ventilation standards.

 

@Brooks. Nice of you to point that out but I for one rather base my opinion on evidence based science on topic than on a wellknown psychological test that in this case is off topic (but nevertheless interesting as such although for different reasons. Ever read Skinner on behaviourism?). For a major part of my professional life I've worked with all kinds of chemicals and really, it isn't something you should take so unresponsibly lightly.

 

Informed and controlled way of working is something else than being alarmist.

Being alarmist is rather different than advising you to take some commonsense precautions

My dad worked in his dark room for 40+ yrs now (he's a B&W fanatic) and he didn't develop cancer. His room was the size of a regular bedroom (not master bedroom), had adequate ventilation but no windows (yes NO windows).

 

If you are so afraid, wear a gas mask with Oxygen supply? Heheh

John, my granddad smoked for more than fifty years and he didn't develop cancer. What's your point?

<i>My dad worked in his dark room for 40+ yrs now (he's a B&W fanatic) and he didn't develop cancer. </i><p>Is this deliberately ignorant? You really think this is statistically valid and proves something?

Yeah, that's fairly lame. My grandmother smoked from age 16 into her 80's. She finally quit due to health issues, but never cancer.

 

As for the dihydrogen monoxide -- I've even heard that the Bush administration has used it to torture prisoners.

Brendon,

 

If you run a search under Kodak darkroom safety you will find considerable information that will help you avoid problems and should help you to be less concerned.

 

On a personal side, my mother has never smoked or imbibed anything alcoholic other than minor social drinking with no other health risks and no cancer in the family. Yet, at 84, she has had 10 major surgeries in the last 16 years for serious oral cancers that are spontaneous. I also know many heavy smokers, drinkers, snuff users who have gone for all their long adult lives abusing their bodies and have no health issues yet. It's something of a crap shoot.

 

The main concern in darkroom safety is good ventilation as either cancer or emphasema is a remote possibility.

 

The best ventilation draws air ACROSS the trays from where you work, toward the wall on the other wide of the sink. That way, you are always breathing fresh air and the chemical odors and contaminants are being pulled away from you. Use tongs for your print processing and rubber gloves for your clean up and you should be fine. When you finish with the processing, either cover the trays if the chemistry is still good, or dispose properly so you don't have the chemicals evaporate into your air.

Brendon,

 

If you run a search under Kodak darkroom safety you will find considerable information that will help you

avoid problems and should help you to be less concerned.

 

On a personal side, my mother has never smoked or imbibed anything alcoholic other than minor social drinking

with no other health risks and no cancer in the family. Yet, at 84, she has had 10 major surgeries in the last

16 years for serious oral cancers that are spontaneous. I also know many heavy smokers, drinkers, snuff users

who have gone for all their long adult lives abusing their bodies and have no health issues yet. It's something

of a crap shoot.

 

The main concern in darkroom safety is good ventilation as either cancer or emphasema is a remote possibility.

 

The best ventilation draws air ACROSS the trays from where you work, toward the wall on the other wide of the

sink. That way, you are always breathing fresh air and the chemical odors and contaminants are being pulled away

from you. Use tongs for your print processing and rubber gloves for your clean up and you should be fine. When

you finish with the processing, either cover the trays if the chemistry is still good, or dispose properly so you

don't have the chemicals evaporate into your air.

 

Below is some of the Kodak info. You'll need to run the search to get the active site.

 

Chemical and Film Handling

 

1. What do I need to know before I begin working with photographic processing chemicals?

2. What kinds of chemicals am I exposed to when using photographic processing solutions, and how do I minimize

exposure?

3. How can I keep myself safe from spills and splashes?

4. How do I obtain a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)?

5. How can I obtain information on old or discontinued Kodak chemistry?

6. How should I store my photographic processing chemicals?

7. How do I determine whether the old movie film I have is cellulose nitrate film?

8. How do I properly dispose of my cellulose nitrate-based motion picture film?

9. What can you tell me about the toxicity characteristics of KODAK Photographic Films and Papers?

 

Photo Lab Health and Safety

 

1. How do I obtain a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)?

2. How can I obtain information on old or discontinued Kodak chemistry?

3. What kinds of chemicals am I exposed to when using photographic processing solutions, and how do I minimize

exposure?

4. How can I keep myself safe from spills and splashes?

5. What is an HMIS rating and what does it mean?

6. What are NFPA ratings?

7. Is it safe for me to use and mix photographic processing chemicals while I am pregnant?

8. Am I required to wear personal protective equipment in a photographic processing facility?

9. What type of plumbing is suitable for photographic processing effluent?

10. How do I know if I have adequate ventilation in my facility?

 

Waste Management

 

1. How do I dispose of photographic processing effluents?

2. Can I dispose of photographic processing solutions to my septic system?

3. What is Silver Recovery, and is it necessary for me?

4. What do I do with my recovered silver?

5. How do I measure the silver content of my effluent being discharged to the POTW after silver recovery?

6. What is the Code of Management Practice and how is it used?

7. What can I do with old film?

8. How do I dispose of the waste film I generate?

9. What can I do with all of the non-chemical waste I generate at my facility?

10. How can I dispose of my waste batteries?

11. What can you tell me about the toxicity characteristics of KODAK Photographic Films and Papers?

12. My plumber recommends the use of Limestone pits or Neutralization tanks. Do I need one?

 

Silver Management

 

1. What can I do with old film ?

2. What is Silver Recovery, and is it necessary for me?

3. What do I do with my recovered silver?

4. How do I measure the silver content of my effluent being discharged to the POTW after silver recovery?

5. What is the Code of Management Practice and how is it used?

6. What is the KODAK RELAY Program?

 

Regulatory Compliance

 

1. What environmental regulations affect how I run my photographic processing business?

2. How do I obtain a MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)?

3. Do I need a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for film and paper?

4. How do I dispose of photographic processing effluents?

5. Do I need a permit to discharge my photographic processing effluent?

6. How do I find out what my local sewer codes and requirements are?

7. Am I required to wear personal protective equipment in a photographic processing facility?

8. What is an HMIS rating and what does it mean?

9. What are NFPA ratings?

 

Information for Educators and Hobbyists

 

1. How do I dispose of photographic processing effluents?

2. Can I dispose of photographic processing solutions to my septic system?

3. What is the KODAK RELAY Program?

4. What type of plumbing is suitable for photographic processing effluent?

5. How should I store my photographic processing chemicals?

 

Recycling

 

1. Does Kodak use recycled content materials?

2. What can I do with old film ?

3. How do I dispose of the waste film I generate?

4. What do I do with my recovered silver?

5. Is there a program for recycling the lead foil for the dental packets?

6. How can I dispose of my waste batteries?

7. What can I do with all of the non-chemical waste I generate at my facility?

 

Software

Ton,

 

The post on dihydrogen monoxide was tongue in cheek. It does, however, illustrate a point, some "science" is junk science.

 

As for the MSDS "tell[ing] you what is legally required"; that is true, and what they state MUST be backed by valid scientific data. However just because it is "legally required" does not mean it is incomplete or misleading. It is sufficient to keep you alive and well. If the MSDS is in error, there are hordes of lawyers out there ready to descend upon the company and strip it bare of assets.

 

As to your point, "that to be used safely a lot of chemicals need professional ventilation standards", you are correct, there are. BUT Ilford developer, fixer, and stop bath are not among those chemicals (at least according to the hard science behind the MSDS. What "science" are you referring to?).

 

As for "commonsense", for centuries, "commonsense" told us the earth was flat. And if you disagreed with that "commonsense", you were burned at the stake.

 

If you wish to don a HAZMAT suit to enter a darkroom, feel free. Me, I will continue to work as I always have and turn the bathroom exhaust fan on to keep the temperature reasonable.

 

Let's revist this in abouth 30 years. We can compare tumor counts. <BIG GRIN>

"Are you going to die of lung cancer? Do you smoke? No, you will probably die of a heart attack (the leading cause of death in men). "

 

And, women,too!

be sure not to use the pinhole camera in the sun or you might get skin cancer.

"<I>Am I going to die developing photo paper in my laundry room?</I>"<P>

That is the way real photographers would want to go.

Brooks,

 

you're just trying to make light of this. Normally I would laugh with you but here it seems some just don't seem to grasp it and respond with remarks based on sheer ignorance. I bet most people here have badly ventilated darkrooms at home. If you read back some of us are just saying that some basic precautions are in order.

That doesn't mean a laminar flow darkroom or suiting up but being obtuse doesn't help either.

Yes, it's quite safe to work in a darkroom IF you know and make sure what you're working with and IF you take some sensible precautions.

 

I never said MSDS are misleading or incomplete, the FDA sees to that. But there is a big difference between use in a controlled environment and a badly ventilated and often small room.

 

Your flat world comment, another tongue in cheek? As I said earlier evidence based is what's important.

 

I know your last remark was also made in gest but there I really fail to say the humour. I see people with tumours everyday and believe me it's anything but funny.

 

If someone has something valuable to offer I'm interested but by now arguments have come repetitive (including my own) so there is no real point in going on here I guess.

and Tim, thanks for your input

<i>y'all just took the fun out of the darkroom, - don't drink the chemistry! C'mon! what else am I going to drink after my 5th beer?</i><p/><p/>Damn Straight!<p/>I use Kodak's Indicator Stop Bath (mostly acetic acid - vinegar ) for my salad dressing. When my dressing goes purple, I know it's time to throw it out and make a new batch!

I spent a good deal of time in a variety of darkrooms developing film and printing. I tasted chemicals to check their potency , both developer and fixer, with no ill effects. My hands were stained dark brown by my activities in the darkroom. I've know darkroom technicians that spent their whole working lives printing. They were in their 50s to 70s when I worked with them. Never knew anyone that died of cancer caused by the photographic chemicals. Use a small amount of common sense and you'll be fine.

<i>We can compare tumor counts. </i><p>Not funny. Especially to anyone living with cancer. Quite sick in fact. I'm sure there are sites that appreciate jokes about cancer and suggest you find them instead of using this forum for that.

<i>We can compare tumor counts. </i><p/>I'm up to 34. So far, all benign, but I have to see my Doc a few times a

year. <p/>It's been proven that having a sense of humor about illness and death makes your prognosis a bit

better. And in some cases, actually save your life. (ask your doc if you don't believe me) <p/>I am not a

victim. Stuff happens. Was it photo chemicals? - I don't know. I'm not an epidemiologist nor have I conducted any

peer reviewed studies. But the thing is, I try to live my life to be as happy as I can. I try not to be too

materialistic. I try to show love to the folks that matter to me. And I don't know, I just try to live right

without being stupid about it. <a href=http://www.amazon.com/Year-Live-This-Were-Your/dp/0609801945> This book

was a real eye opener for me. </a>. <p/> All of us, one day, will die. Life is terminal. Accepting that fact will

help in making you life more joyful and less fearful. Not afraid to die? What can anyone do to you?

Jeff, you are correct, there is nothing funny about tumors. My point was that if Ton dressed in a HAZMAT suit every time he went into the darkroom and I continued to work in the my short sleeve shirt in the darkroom, thirty years from now each of us would have the same number of tumors from working in the darkroom - ZERO! I tend to believe the MSDS. If it states there is no hazard from inhalation, it means no hazard.

 

Ton, I always cringe when I hear the term "common sense" and "sensible" when used to discuss science. To me, common sense means things like, "Don't Pet the Grizzly Bears.", "Look Both Ways Before Crossing the Street". It does not mean ignore the MSDS and add extra ventilation. If the ventilation is sufficient to keep the room at a comfortable temperature, it is good for me - for the Ilford chemicals mentioned. For other chemicals, read the MSDS.

Flynn Scientific began including an extensive list of hazards with their catalog, if you can get them to send you one, or probably google them, you may get some nuggets of interest.

 

Some people are sensitive to developing agents, I met one, and I used to be amused by the Kodak caution, Contains Monomethylparaaminophenylsulfate, really meaningful I had been looking for that all my life to avoid.

 

And do not substitute drain cleaner for lye, it has other things in it, read the labels. Lewis Lye is close enough if you are using it for some reason, and yes it is very caustic. It can really shorten those development times and pop out the grain, but it can also eat off your skin and hair quickly, which is why it works in drains. Makes soap too.

 

People who work in salt mines seem to have better than normal lungs for some reason, so there is one chemical that may be ok to be around.

 

I am guessing we would prefer to avoid the real time experimentation with chemistry in general, or IOW, try common sense.

 

And Vinegar is only 5% acetic acid, so stick with the Heinz for the salad, the indicator might do some funky stuff to your intestines.