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Informal Poll - Current Trends in Reprint Sizes?


think27

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Kind of a follow up to this thread in 2005 by Marc Williams

http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00CTfq

 

What is your most popular reprint size for your couples?

 

How do your sales of 8x10 and 11x4 compare to smaller sizes such as 5x7's and 4x6?

 

Is it still true that couples rarely order 20 x 24 prints anymore? And if you have sold any of these huge

prints/canvas prints - Where do you live and why did they want a big print like this? For themselves or for

their Parent's?

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I'm not interested in small sized reprint orders anymore. In my mind this has all changed due to the rise of sites like

smugamug, snapfish and other establishments such as Costco, Target And WalMart.. The amount of bottom line profit I

was getting from a total of reprint sales per gig I added to my upfront costs. My clients are happy with that approach

and so Am I!

 

The smallest sized reprint I take orders for is 11"x14". I do sell a few large sized prints and it is usually to the B&G.

 

Thanks for asking.

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I see people in the 4x6 range of course, but the 5x7 I see a lot of. Now, funny thing is I give print rights with instructions, but my instructions are a little detailed and color correction gets folks a lot so they still come back. But I did the same and built in the loss in print sales, discounted it just a bit to make it fair to offset their cost, and came up with my general pricing. I don't see any large print sales anymore that aren't collages, and in 1 couples house I saw what would have been a 11"x14" but was a collage of 4"x6" in a 3 dimensional arrangement. Sounds funny, but very tasteful. They were beautiful shots, and what I personally am seeing is couples want more on display, in a classy and sophisticated way rather than 1 large image. Blame it on the multimedia world.
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Interesting. Thanks Bill My experience is not like yours and I'm sure we'll see a wide variety here.

<p>

I see you are in Minnesota - where is Minnetonka near?

<p>

My upfront price for 6 hrs is over $3500 and it goes up with each hour. Some weddings are in the $4,000 range. None includes albums and only $100 towards reprints. Reprints w/albums typically start at $1200 and average is around $3,000 or so. They get 4x6 proofs. Orders come in within 6 months to 8 years.

<p>

Here is how the breakdown is most typically and this is for New England. New York and DC although my couples come from all over the US (destination weddings in Stowe) and even Europe (Stowe destination weddings again). I think it will be very interesting to see the location of people as well as the ratios.

<p>

50 to 80 4x6<p>

20 to 60 5x7's<p>

2 to 8 8x10's<p>

1 or 2 at the most 11x14<p>

One time in 17 years - a 16 x 20<p>

 

And that is "typical" but I've had cases where the couple ordered over 100 5x7's.

<p>

Just wondering about the ratio of requests for reprints are for others and if it has changed at all over the years.

<p>

I remember a time when Wedding Photographers - 20 or so years ago would offer 20 to 50 8x10's in their packages. Albums would be one per page 8x10's and that trend went way back to my parent's era.

<p>

Denis Reggie told us about 15 years ago that no one wanted or ordered anything larger than an 8x10 anymore and the bulk of reprints were 5x7's and 4x6's. He said the canvas print hanging over the fireplace was passe and only ordered occassionally by parents in Long Island ;-)

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Hi Mary!

 

Where I live in Minnetonka is about a 15 minute drive, a 45 minute bike ride to downtown Minneapolis. I have a one acre

lot that borders a beautiful lake. I can take some nice engagement photos here. Matter of fact my son is getting

married next year and we are going to have the ceremony and reception at our home, with the help of a bunch of people.

His fiance is from Shanghai China and we will have people from many parts of the world.

 

Sounds like you have a very nice wedding business. Wonderful!

 

Hope you are having a terrific year.

 

I enjoy posting on photo.net as I learn and I hope I help out as well.

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I get occasional requests for costing a set of 6x4 prints, which I will happily do if requested. However 9x6 is the

minimum size I offer now to guests as standard, and it is popular. I don't usually get requests for really big prints,

with 10x8 or 12x8 being adequate for most folks, it seems.

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I still push enlargements. Often before the client comes by to pick up their wedding photos, I'll show them a 16X20 print, framed, retouched, and mounted. This lets them know how good your cameras are and reorders seem to come more often then not. They usually buy this framed print once they see it.
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Thanks all.. Hoping for some more responses...

 

Bob - You don't have to tell us the exact price - but what is the 'range'.. for your 16x20 and what percentage of the couples buy it?

 

Jo - 9x6? Where are you located? That's an odd size. Curious

 

Thanks Bill...

 

Todd - I also think clients are more sophisticated than 20 years ago. I think years ago very young brides just did what their parents did or what the parents wanted because mostly parents were paying for the wedding. Couples get married later these days and have established their own personal tastes and it does not seem to be a huge canvas print over the fireplace. ;-)

 

I think also that sharing info such as what are most clients buying - talking into consideration that some trends may be market driven - is helpful in that photographers can use this knowledge to market themselves and focus on the print sizes that are popular.

 

From what I read in various forums, it seems to me that many photographers are missing out on a healthy reprint business. I understand that 'some' prefer to 'charge up front' and let it all go but I think you can still charge the higher prices up front and also get a nice return later on with great prints which help your reputation (vs couples using a bad lab to print and then display your work)

 

So this thread is partly just my curiosity about the popularity or lack of popularity of the huge print and in part a marketing inquiry to see what most people find they are selling the most of in various sizes.

 

One question I'm still curious about for those who do sell large prints - What kind of clients are buying them and what kind of feedback are you getting about why they want that very large print? Do they have a huge house? Are they giving it to their parents? (traditional/old fashioned)? Is it because their parent's have one? Is it a 'cultural' thing? Does it seem to be low end brides or high end or somewhere in the middle".

 

For instance, I sold only one 16x20 in my 17 years of weddings. It was for a very wealthy Mom that lived in a huge mansion in Bermuda. She was very very old fashioned and 'proper'. Still wore white gloves to church for instance and a hat - like the old days.

 

So - knowing that - it would help me target different clients with options that would appeal to them. I would not show a young, hip lawyer couple a 16x20 canvas print (aside from the fact that I don't have one and don't care for them) because the couple would say ewww - and think twice about hiring such a cheesy photographer ;-) However, if a young bride with an old fashioned Mom came to you - you might make sure a couple of huge prints were there as it may trigger a positive response and a good sale after the wedding of a 16x20 portrait for Mom's mantel....

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Let me preface by stating that I operate my business from my home with the only employee being me. I hire associate

photographers, I have four on my list, for each gig.

 

With that said, I did a time analysis of my reprint business and, for me at least, my time produces more profits doing

other things than what is necessary for reprints. I tried an online service for several years but the quality/size of each

image for the prices I wanted to receive didn't produce the results I expected. Perhaps if you have a staffed studio, you

can assign someone else can do the tasks necessary for reprints. But then those expenses need to be put into the

reprint equation for determining bottom line profit. In my case it is only me.

 

Perhaps that helps with my view.

 

I agree with you Mary that couples today have different ideas about reprints, albums and other things to remember their

wedding day. Is my daughter a good example? She has all the files from her wedding and the only prints/album they

have are what I did for them. Do young couples today just want/desire/need the files, look at the photos then tuck the

CD/DVD's away?

 

I wish some of the younger people would offer their advice/views. Maybe I'm wrong and should re-examine the reprint

business.

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Bill Regarding your daughter... I was married 5 years ago. Against my better judgment - I let my friend - a pro

photographer - shoot my wedding and give me the CD's. No prints. They are sitting in a drawer. Going through

and organizing which ones to print (out of over 1,000 images) takes too much time. Plus I can't get my husband

to sit with me at the computer to go through all of them and divide them into yes/no choices. I had some prints

made but just 4x6 to make myself a semi - proof type album. I needed to see prints to see which ones I really

liked and wanted to either put in an album or put in frames. I find prints on photo paper look better to me than

jpgs.

 

In any case - the color was not so great to my tastes... My lab could only do color density and contrast changes

and needless to say the amount of work and time is just too much.

 

On the other hand, my engagement photos were another story. I had prints - about 90 of them. I picked which

ones I liked easily... They were already prints so I knew what they'd look like. I had a CD but I didn't like

the images as much on the screen (maybe it's me). It took me just a few minutes to weed out my favs.

 

I have 4 engagement photos around the house - and I don't have any wedding photos framed or on the wall.

 

I do pull out my wedding 4x6's in a proof album that I put together when people come over. I do not pull out my

CD and sit in front of the computer with people to see the photos. Every time I pull out the photos - We

think... one of these days I need to do something with these. I know my clients who do also have proof albums go

through the same thing and some of them write me once a year threatening to finally do the album or reprints. I

always tell them there is no worries - let me know when they're ready... Eventually, the all finally come in.

Brides range in age from 22 to 40. Most somewhere in the late 20's early 30's.

 

To make a long story short. I'm not even a "young couple" and my CD's are tucked away and never viewed. The

proof albums, however- are. Again - I don't know if it "prooves' anything. Just found it interesting that I did

the same thing your daughter did with my wedding photos.

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I get more requests for 5x7s now. I also don't sell a lot of prints beyond 11x14--I used to sometimes, but usually to brides' moms. I still give a set of 4x6 prints as part of the deal, and find it much appreciated, for the same reason you give, Mary. It is just easier to look at so the procrastination factor is lessened.
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If you want to sell "big" you need to have "big" on the studio walls. You also need to show them what an 8x10 or 11x14 looks like up next to a 16x20. I also have a 24x36 on the wall to help them compare. An 11x14 over a couch just won't look right at all.

 

You might also want to consider doing a collage. The print below is 16x20 but it uses 3 seperate images and text and really needs the full 16x20 to get the effect.

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Hi Mary, I'm in the UK. 9x6 seems a pretty standard size at a number of labs here and I like it because whether I am

selling at 6x4 or 9x6 or 12x8 the crop is consistent and therefore the customer can see the crop accurately at each

different size. There are also a good range of mounts that I use from a firm here which I like and who cater for all

these three sizes. So consistency, availability and a sensible range of sizes to suit most needs have been

determining factors in what I offer and subsequently what I sell. 9x6 in a strut mount with or without a frame also sits

well on a desk or unit, offering nice detail in the print (I feel this is sometimes lost in the small prints) without being

too big for practical purposes.

 

There is another factor of course, which is the business side of things. I find that presentation and print costs aren't

significantly different whether the size is 9x6 or 6x4. By the time I add in my postage costs (which I offer free of

charge), the 9x6 option makes better money for me whilst at the same time offering a size that allows the client to

feel they are getting something substantial for their money - which I suppose they are.

 

Despite offering couples an enlargement with a hand cut mount so that it fits a good frame of their choice, the vast

majority tell me that they don't wish to display their wedding photos on their walls and so most choose a heavy-

weight folder or strut-mount instead. It's their choice but very few go for the mount-&-frame option. Interestingly, many

parents do however wish to have at least one, and sometimes several enlargements, to add to their family wall

display - although these aren't usually big sizes.

 

So the feedback I get is that young couples don't seem to be very interested in wall display for their wedding photos,

and subsequently larger sized prints are less appropriate than they used to be. Having said that, children and family

portraits taken a few years down the line are far more likely to be purchased at a bigger size and get displayed. Not

sure why this is, but it would be interesting to find out.

 

Maybe someone else here knows the answer?

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Thanks David - I'm not personally trying to sell big though I do have a couple of 11x14's in 16x20 frames with museum beveled cut mats. Even with that they still want 8x10 and way more 5x7'. It doesn't seem to be a cost factor because some of them get very expensive darkroom prints in 8x10. I assume you have the large images in frames displayed - but still you only ended up selling three, so I'm still deducting that people are still not interested very much in huge framed prints.

 

Jo - That explains it! UK sizes... Our labs (that I know of anyway) don't offer 9x6 - ours are 3 1/2 x5, 4x6, 5x7. 8x10 or 8x12, 11 x 17 etc.

 

Jo - I know from the homes I've been in that people tend to decorate right out of magazines and when they do have photos - they seem to be story walls or photo clusters with groupings of 3 to a frame, 6 to a frame or individual matted 8x10 frames with 5x7 photos. I just spoke with a couple last night and they weighed in by saying they thought it was narcisstic to have some huge wedding photo on the wall. Instead they have some family and some couple photos in a grouping - noting bigger than 8x10.

 

Thanks Nadine - you and I seem to often be on the same page ;-)

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Regarding Weddings, I contract to a studio. The studio might not be typical: it is established; its marketing encourages wall mounted images; and it displays them also. It could be described as a Traditional, City W&P Studio. There are many framed images on the wall.

 

Regarding REPRINTS there has been a decline in the total NUMBER of all sizes sold: 30 x 40; 20 x 24; 20 x 16; 11 x 14 and 10 x 8 over the past 5 to 8 years, but the greatest decline (% to number of weddings contracted) has been with the 11 x 14 and 10 x 8. By comparison, there has been a minimal sales decline of the ``wall hanging`` sizes.

 

Regarding the ALBUM PRINTS, there has been little deviation over the last eight years, similar numbers of 5x7 and 10x8 and the mix of both are being sold.

 

Also it might be relevant, my OPINION is, whilst there is a big trend in Australia to move (many have moved) to the DVD as part of the standard offer of sale, and the Marketing and Advertising via the internet being integral: it is not as impossible (as it seems to me to be the case in the USA) to make a good living without both of these being a primary constituent to the business.

 

In other regards, I still do a little work for myself, i.e. directly with the client (mainly portraiture but NO weddings) I use mainly MF / film. For the film work I only offer 10 x 8 prints and larger. The prints are chemical / enlarger hand finished. I do some (digital) sports work (usually pro bono) and with that I only offer 5 x 7 or the file(s).

 

I think physical location and the market(s) targeted will render a broad range of answers to the question, also some businesses, especially those begun / established over the past few years will have never offered reprints large than 5 x 7 or 6 x 4. Certainly that is the case here.

 

WW

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William - yes - physical location should show different trends. For instance Todd K is saying - The "south" purchases large 16x20 prints. Doesn't surprise me. Certain ethnic groups in Long Island (but mostly the parents or 20 year olds that have not decided yet what they like and do what the parents do) still buy large prints. Age probably comes into play in some markets as well.

 

I think the important thing to realize is that when someone makes an "absolute" statement about Wedding Photography on the internet about marketing...... Take it with a grain and pay close attention to your market and/or your target audience.

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Mary:

 

The point you make about Ethnic Groups is also quite relevant regarding what people buy. Also age is important; and

also tradition within the family group; and also the number of generations that family has been in their `new` country,

as the tradition wanes with each generation: these matters are relevant in my location and experience. (I have

mentioned before) micro specialization can be very useful for a business`s growth. Once accepted by a `group`, often

one is vigorously recommended, within that group. Personal recommendation is one of the best forms of advertising,

IMO.

 

***

 

I think the point you make about ``absolute`` statements on the `net, extends way beyond statements made on the

subject of marketing.

 

It behoves a true professional, in any sphere, when addressing an unknown audience en masse, to stipulate quite

clearly the parameters that premise and perimeter their comments, especially comments of opinion, subjectivity or

personal condition or situation.

 

Disclosure is especially important when holding up one`s own situation, as a template or model, or as an answer to

specific question: such as one`s own business as a `one stop marketing solution`, for example, which I understand

is your specific point.

 

Without at the minimum a thumbnail sketch of the commentator`s position, the recipient has no gauge by which to

take the comments and usefully apply them to his own condition and or situation.

 

In these regards, I think your advice to take comments ``with a grain of salt`` is a very wise FIRST position for ALL

internet conversation.

 

WW

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