Die hard film guy considering making the switch.

Yes, it's true. I'm thinking of going digital. The truth is, I'm tired of fighting with the various labs. They adjust my

contrast to please their own eye. They do the same with colors as well. Nothing as frustrating as changing lighting

ratios to add or reduce contrast and maybe adding a warming filter in order to get a certain look only to be told that

they decided to adjust things. In general they have been pretty good, but if they get a new tech, we have the same

issues to iron out again. So, image control is the driving force here. I shoot people in a studio environment using

mostly medium format unless I'm shooting kids, then I use my trusty Pentax 35mm gear. I'm heavily invested in

Pentax with 7 bodies and plenty of great glass from Pentax, Tamron (SP) and Sigma (APO) in both MF and AF.

Print sizes are typically 8X10, 11X14, 16X20 and an occasional 20X30.

 

Ok, so much for background. Here are my questions. I'm sure some of these have been asked a multitude of times.

 

It seems that the K10D and the K200D are about the same price or at least pretty close. Is the 200 really an

improvement over the K10?

 

Is the K20D worth it at twice the K10/K200 price?

 

Any difference in how these bodies/sensors render skin colors?

 

Lastly, I've been thinking about getting the 77mm 1.8 limited for some time. Any experience with this lens with

digital?

 

I appreciate the comments/suggestions of those who have made this transition themselves.

 

So, gentleman (and ladies), start your keyboards...:-)

 

 

Mel

Damn, I thought Bruce Willis was going to vote Democrat :)

Michael,

 

I had to think for a few minutes about the Bruce Willis reference. I should have chosen my subject line more carefully:-) As to your point, it could be argued that in this election we will be getting a democrat or the equivalent in either case.

 

Mel

LOL, I sure hope so. Back on topic, someday I really want to try the Pentax system, I've never owned one. I have heard they made some wonderful lenses.

*I* would get a K10D now, mainly for the VF, and later get a K30 or whatever. I have a K100D to and like it a lot but the VF in the K10 is bigger and is really nice with MF lenses. Try to handle them all if you can.

Mel, I can understand, as I still like shooting film for some uses.

 

The 77mm Limited f/1.8 is fantabulous with digital and with film as well!! Totally wonderful lens.

 

Never mind the spec numbers, no VF in current Pentax DSLR models will quite match those found in the better Pentax film models for magnification. That said, they are still all rated very highly. A faster lens will do most to enhance VF viewing.

 

Mel, I love my K100D Super, as well as my old *ist-D, but I have especially been taking an interest in the K200D as I find out more. There is a real good rebate deal going on right now. Its color quality is apparently more accurate than the K10D, and the K20D for that matter. Both new models have improved dynamic range, which should be of interest to your needs, I assume. The K10D has a slight magenta or purple cast. Its JPEG images are a bit soft, where the K200D's are very sharp. I find I often prefer to shoot JPEG. The K200D has an instant RAW button should I want quick access switch to RAW. The K200D and K20D apparently have a "portrait" color tone setting (this is not a scene mode).

 

For more rundown and other discussion, check yesterday's post re the K200D at $509.78 by Javier, also- K20D highly recommended... 6/25 by Tom Maher, and the one just before it by Paulo Cortez, has the link. And also- K100D still a good buy? 6/24 by Taylor Phillips.

I would suggest you consider the K20D. On par with medium format 6x7 film at 100 iso.

 

Ben<div></div>

" The truth is, I'm tired of fighting with the various labs. They adjust my contrast to please their own eye. They do the

same with colors as well. Nothing as frustrating as changing lighting ratios to add or reduce contrast and maybe

adding a warming filter in order to get a certain look only to be told that they decided to adjust things."

 

I HATE it when that happens. In Norway we have only one great lab with great technicians, but that means I have to

post my negatives and wait a good while for them to return. Large prints are not cool to send in the post. I don't like

to part with my negatives either, but don't have much choice.

 

If you are used to Medium Format quality, prepare to be somewhat dissapointed. Great as my k10d is, it doesn't

measure up to my Mamiya RZ 67 pro II with good film, Ilford delta 100 or fuji reala 100, nor do I expect it to.

The main difference is texture and transition between highs/lows. You'll notice when you shoot a high contrast

scene.

 

That said: the k10d produces pretty amazing results IF you can keep the scene within it's Dynamic Range. Shooting

in a studio will help you to achieve exactly that. Shoot in RAW. I can't emphasise that enough. It applies to ALL

dslr's. The k10d is able to deliver some really great results IF you use RAW. Skin tones are rendered beautifully with

the k10d.

 

Haven't used the k200d at all, and only played with the k20d. It seems as the k200d is a bit simpler design utilizing

the same great sensor as in the k10d. It only has one dial though which can be a pain if you like to shoot in manual

mode. I would guess that you do exactly that in the studio, with a light meter. The k20d is in operation exactly like

the k10d, but it has a higher resolution sensor. Better? I don't know, but it gets high praise for resolution and its high

ISO performance. The first is a plus, the second will not likely help you a lot as you shoot in a studio and keep the

iso low anyhow, I know I would.

 

As for lenses: I have the 31mm f1.8 and 43mm f1.9 limiteds and they are absolutely stunning. If the 77mm measures

up to them (many think so, claiming it to be the best of the three actually), you're in for a treat. The great news is

that it will work perfectly on your Pentax film camera as well, unlike the newer made for digital DA limiteds.

Personally I find a 77mm a bit to long on a digital body, but your studio may be large, or you may do a lot of head

shots. I have found the 43mm to be great for portraits.

Both the 31mm and the 43mm are highly recommended.

 

Invest in a good photo editor program. I find lightroom to be easy to use, but you really can't beat photoshop for

versatility and options. There are other programs I haven't used which reportedly are good. Just make sure whatever

program you use have a good RAW engine. This is your new dark room. This is where you develop. Get to know it.

Also invest in a good monitor and calibrate it.

 

To sum up: the k10d (and I assume the k200d and k20d) are great cameras, but don't expect Medium Format

quality. Don't use jpeg's, use RAW. Get the FA limiteds, they are really that good.

 

This is of course only a heavily biased and personal opinion and your actual needs may differ wildly :-)

 

I wish you the best of luck on your digital voyage.

 

Cheers

 

Fredrik

And here I thought your question was going to be about the difference between shooting film versus digital. Wrong!!

 

Pentax made some wonderful lenses. My first SLR was a Pentax back in 1962 and had the finest lens I have owned.

Wow. I really didn't mean to sound as Mr. Know it all, cause I really don't.

 

Benjamin has a really good thing going, and if he vouches for the k20d's abilities, I choose to trust him. User experience at that level is very valuable.

 

Cheers

 

Fredrik

Surely if you want to avoid labs, you will have no choice but to print yourself....so this is no reason to switch entirely to the digi wonder cameras..you could still shoot film and scan instead...

In order.. K20D, K10D, K200D, K100D-Super, K100D, K110D..

 

I have no preference over any of them, they're all fine cameras. As Benjamin points out however, the K20D has some stellar resolution when paired with quality glass.

Hi Mel, You said you're doing printed portraits in 16X20 and need an occasional 20X30. For those print sized I'd want the extra resolution offered by the k20d. Many people do it, but I think 16x20 is a bit of a stretch for a 10mp camera; certainly 20x30 is. At a minimum you'll have more latitude for adjustments with the k20d. And the extra stop or two of dynamic range you get with the k20d might be useful for you too.

 

Regarding the 77mm, stunning, simply stunning lens. I own all three of the FA limited lenses plus a few excellent zooms; if I'm shooting tighter portraits it's my best by far.

 

/Roger

for what it is worth; I don't shoot pentax, but:

 

I do scan film. You may be surprised what you can get out of your own slides and negatives. That in conjunction with

advanced digital color controls, it is a great way to go.

 

As for the K10D vs. K200 -> I don't know anything except that the K10D was marketed as a semi-pro body and may

have some wireless flash functionality advantages.

 

James

Photography RI

James P Jones: I almost went the scanner route hadn't it been for labs giving me prints that showed negatives drying on each other, not sure how they managed it, but they did it, no scanner is going to fix that.

 

Mel: As far as the K20D goes, i think it is worth every penny, i can't compare it to the K10D with it's CCD sensor, i do love to compare it to my former Canon 30D with its CMOS sensor and i'm loving the K20D.

Although i do love tinkering about with RAW files (as in come back for another look after i am long done delivering prints), i was never this happy with jpegs straight out of camera.

Many should appreciate the "hands off" approach to forced noise reduction on ISOs under 3200.

What surprised me the most is to see a company supporting all their old lenses on their latest DSLR. Add the M42 to K adapter from Pentax for even more support, It might irk some to need a flash with "Auto mode" if you want to use flash with pre-A lenses, which doesn't come into play with studio strobes or available light photography.

Considering the K20D's resolution, and your background in MF, i would expect you enjoying Limited lenses on the K20D, or if the budget for it is there even Zeiss ZK lenses.

 

Did i mention the K10D would leave you w/o something you might expect to find? No PC Sync to plug into. The K20D has it. (which may not matter if you use wireless triggers that you have on your hotshoe)

I never owned a K10D, i did however see people mention skin colors when talking about why they prefer the K20D, couldn't find a reference right now, maybe you may want to ask/search on pentaxforums.com

 

Hope any of this is useful,

 

Daniel

"I almost went the scanner route hadn't it been for labs giving me prints that showed negatives drying on each other, not sure how they managed it, but they did it, no scanner is going to fix that."

 

True, no scanner will fix that. But a change of labs would work!

I meant with that "I was done taking chances with my film in other people's hands" ;)

Don't cheap out...

 

Take a deep breath and get a K20D w/DA 18-55 II, DA 40 Ltd and DA 55-300 lenses then don't look back and second guess yourself. You will be set for years and you'll only have yourself to blame when you pop that odd clinker image. Get anything less and you'll be disappointed, or worse... catch LBA.

 

...my 25 cents (US)...

I switched to K20D from rangefinder 35mm and SLR. I'm skilled with Nikon scanner but hate dealing with increasingly lousy color labs, am too excited about my photography for mail-away.

 

My own B&W film processing and scanning is very good, so I will probably continue it sometimes...until someone makes a rangefinder-like camera that rivals K20D (note: among its failings, Leica M8 has reliability issues).

 

B&W conversions from K20D files are better (range of tones, latitude, detail resolution) than scans of B&W negs unless one dislikes lack of grain. As well, Pentax DA primes MAY be higher resolution than many SLR primes. I doubt many old Pentax lenses rival current Pentax lenses.

Y'all ought to try Bibble With Andy Pro plugin for B&W conversions.

Michael: You could recommend a little nicer lenses (40 pancake being excepted), settling and the realizing one has settled is what causes LBA in the first place.

Another 2 cents (US) to consider...

 

Keep things simple. Sure... one can always recommend a "better" lens set, but for banging the buck.. the DA's 18-

55 ver II, 40 Ltd and 55-300 are a solid three-some. When used on a K20D with some everyday film-type discipline,

each can deliver spectacular results. LBA springs from wanting to aim high, but shooting low. Proof of this assertion

can be found by doing a simple search of this and other Pentax related forums.

 

Another caution I'd add is avoid third party lenses. If you have a pairing problem between a lens and camera body,

you are on your own to develop a work around. Pentax can only offer help with Pentax branded pairings.

 

Enjoy the season...

Naa, don't do it. Fighting with a photofinisher over crappy work is really so much fun ... The K10D, a DA21, FA43, and

DA70 or FA77 are all you need. Great camera, great lenses. You'll likely never touch that horrible old film stuff again.

Think of the loss of human interaction that admits!

 

]:-)

 

Seriously, I haven't followed the K200/20D cameras much. I'm happy with the K10D and the above three lenses (along

with a couple others). They produce great results.

 

Godfrey

Proceed with both eyes open. Pentax is a great choice and the K20D is priced where digital cameras should be priced. I shoot the Nikon D200 which I consider good ... I've always considered the Pentax offerings to be an equal competitor across the board. Personally, I do not believe digital produces finer color fidelity than film, especially when looking at good prints/slides from the likes of an RB/RZ67 camera.

 

Digital will of course change the way you work; it will not be as easy as dropping off your film and blaming the lab .. and you digital lab will now be even less responsive to printing issues that arise .. you will be told that your camera settings and post processing are to blame ... and of course, who can argue that? Ask the lab to do anything more than print what you give them .. and you're back to the same problem ..

 

Nothwithstanding the difference, you will find going digital to be an exciting adventure .. one that gives you a certain measure of freedom to experiment and grow .. and you will want to shoot more than you care to post process as time goes on but I believe you will get satisfying results .. and if your customers like it that's all that matters .. PS don't sell your film gear .. you may want to do some critical comparisons when time permits between what you do in digital and what you do in film .. your own eye should be the best indicator of what work better for you.

If you're shooting 35mm now, you *could* try the middle ground first by buying a Nikon Coolscan V and scanning

your film into the computer and printing that way. I'm mostly digital these days (Canon 5D) but I recently replaced

my old film scanner with a Coolscan V and am very impressed with it's color scanning of slides and negatives. I'm a

little less impressed with black and white film scanning but it does a decent job there too with more work and very

clean negatives. Just a thought.

 

I print with a Epson R1800 (Epson has replaced this now with the 1900) that I bought refurbished from Epson. The

printer wasn't too expensive, but I'll just warn you that what they get you on is the ink cartridges and the paper.

When I had free access to the equipment, film was great. The only film I shoot now is mostly B&W and run it myself.

Labs just piss me off.

 

Going digital with the K10D was like a HUGE weight being lifted off of me because I didn't have to worry about the

processor destroying my film (the stories I could tell...).

 

I shoot with K10D's and now have 8 gig Extreme III SD cards. WOW! 489 RAW images on a card that cost less than a

pair of Portra pro-packs and processing (after rebate, less than just 1 pro-pack). I have battery grips on both K10's, so I

can carry a spare battery and card in each - LOVE IT!

 

With the operational differences between the K100/K200 series and K10/K20 series, you'll probably be happier with a

K10 or K20 (especially if this is your first time shooting sans aperture ring). The only thing that has me drooling over the

K20 is the wider dynamic range, but I am very happy with my K10. There are also film emulators available so you can

process your RAW files to mimic the same color response as your favorite films.

 

Don't forget the Samsung GX-10. It is a rebadged K10, but often more available and cheaper.