What large format camera has quickest operation?

Hello there,

 

I'm contemplating trying on large format, when I understand what everyone says about "slowing down", it still bothers

me that it takes quite abit of time from the moment of perfecting composition and focus to the moment of shutter

(putting the film holder in, getting the dark slide out, press the shutter). As I do mostly portrait/people, things could

have changed in those couple of seconds that I cannot observe.

 

How long does it usually take you to do that operation and is there any camera that more optimised for it? I was day

dreaming the other day and think why dont people would come up with something that makes the film holder more

like a focal plane shutter, as I press the film holder in the dark slide get pushed out and left outside, and when I

press the film holder fully in place, it also triggers the shutter (image the shutter release cable hidden in the film

holder slot and will be trigger when the holder is fully inplace). By that way, as soon as I push the holder in all the

way, the image would be capture and there wont be so much "black out" in the process ... Or maybe this is done

already somewhere!

 

Obviously I havent got experience with large format and this is all very much naivety.

 

Please share your thought!

 

many thanks

Sounds like you might prefer a 4x5 Graflex camera. Look for a Speed Graphic or similar. They were made as press cameras so they give you more speed, if you will, than a field camera or monorail, but retain the larger negative size.

 

http://www.graflex.org/

 

- Randy

Mechanically: A Sinar P 2 with a Sinar auto shutter. but you still have to push the shutter release.

 

In terms of actually shooting quickly : have an assistant do the film changing --that is the way Dick Avedon did his portraits.

 

There are also the old and generally troublesome Grafmatic 4x5 pack film backs.

 

At the end of the 1980s a company developed a motor drive 4x5 sheet film back -- I saw it being demonstrated at PhotoExpo in 1991 -- but it never went into production.

Use a Grafmatic Holder instead of the ordinary double sided film holders. Film is changed in the Grafmatic with a single 2-second in/out motion of the unit (6 shots). They weigh one pound, and sell for $50-75 on ebay.<P>The other thing that you can do to speed up the process is to use a self-cocking shutter, so you don't have to fiddle with the thing before each shot.

I suppose the quickest way of working would be a press camera (Speed/Crown Graphic/MPP etc) with a between the lens shutter - Use the rangefinder to focus, viewfinder to frame and click. if you used a Grafmatic you could carry several shots, but even though I used to use this type of camera a lot, I never really used large format the way you are suggesting. For snapshotting I use 35mm medium format or digital. When I use LF it is because what I want to do is frame and compose the shot in detail and perhaps use camera movements to set up the shot exactly as I want before I take the photo. Perhaps this is why I am using a monorail more than the press cameras nowadays, but I am definitely on a 'horses for courses', ie different equipment for different photography trip now.

"As I do mostly portrait/people, things could have changed in those couple of seconds that I cannot observe. "

 

I believe in viewfinders, which is why I went with the Horseman FA with zoom finder (inc 612 back for extra speed, although the format is too long for portraits), and the Fotoman 617 with finder for landscapes. Between these two, I feel I have a big advantage over many photographers. In portraits I can see the changes during loading film, in landscapes (before sunrise and after sunset) I can compose easily using the finder only...try that on the groundglass, especially if your lens is f/8 and low light. Even if I need tilts and need to use the groundglass, the finder helps find the composition accurately in low light. For tallships, I can follow the movement, etc. Of course at close distances (portraiture), longer lenses are used, depth of field is shallow, so a string for distance consistancy can help, and use the viewfinder to adjust composition between shots.

You might enjoy a Crown Graphic with a Grafmatic back. The top rangefinder model has interchangable cams.

In practice, changing the film holders is less troublesome to me than making sure the subject stays in focus and in position while I reset the aperture, close the lens, set the shutter, load the film, pull the dark slide, etc. To accomplish this more quickly for portraits, I've always been intrigued by (but have ever used) the Gowlandflex, a cumbersome yet well-designed camera that allows you to shoot 4x5 in a TLR mode. See www.petergowland.com/camera/index.html.

 

My experience with a rangefinder on a Speed Graphic suggests that it's not going to give you tack-sharp focusing for tight portaits. On the other hand, if you have deep pockets, you might look at the Linhof Master Technika, which seems to have a more precise rangefinder device. For less money -- and a smaller (2x3") negative -- you could also look at the Horseman VHR models.

 

As for changing the film holder, I concur with the suggestion that the Grafmatic film-pack holder has reliability issues. I also think that 4x5 film packs are hard to come by these days.

I'm with Randy. I too work mostly in portraiture and worked my way through the LF options including a Crown Graphic and a Deardorff V8 before trying a Graflex SLR, and there is really no comparison. I can operate my Graflex almost as quickly as I can operate my RB67, which is very much like a Graflex SLR in design and operation. I use 12-sheet bag mags and once accustomed to them, can work through a magazine fairly quickly, but the real differences for me lie in the ability to shoot handheld, and to look through the lens at my subject until the instant of exposure. The Graflex focal plane shutter permits the use of barrel lenses which can be had very inexpensively, with the possible exception of some of the more collectible portrait lenses like my Veritos, which are still cheap compared to modern portrait lenses in any format. The Crown Graphic is obsolete for me since getting the Graflex, but my Deardorff is a completely different animal and perfect for its application. LF rangefinders vary in their quality and ease of use, but none come close to the freedom and ease of operation of a Graflex SLR. One can still find a Super D in good condition for less than $1000, and less collectible models for much, much less. I paid a whopping $80 for mine and couldn't be happier with it. Good luck.

 

Jay

In general, the genre of product you're after is a

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/25/">field camera</a>, rather than the more cumbersome view camera. <p><a href="mailto:henryp@bhphotovideo.com">Henry Posner</a><br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/"><b>B&H Photo-Video</b></a>

Large format portrait photography can capture instants but it is not done by having the camera chase the sitter. When I photograph a portrait series (usually on 10x8) in the studio or on location the operating sequence goes like this:

 

First focus the subject at the distance you want them and then fix a string line from camera to subject at that distance. My string has a little bead on the end that the subject pulls that to their chin. Provided the string is taut and the bead is on their chin they will be in focus and I don't have to look at the ground glass again.

 

Note the right and left and top and bottom bounds of the field of view. Sometimes, in the field, I mark these limits with an inconspicuous stone or twig. Provided the subject is inside the boundaries they are in the picture and I don't have to look at the ground glass again.

 

Set the correct aperture and shutter speed. If the light does not change I don't have to look at the meter again.

 

When the shutter is cocked I insert a film holder and pull out the darkslide. Only a little press on the cable release is needed and the exposure can be made in an instant.

 

Then I call over my subject from wherever they have wandered off to and put them in front of the camera. I say "pick up the string and pull it tight, place bead on chin, hold still, make a nice face, let the bead drop....CLICK! That's one exposure. For more pictures simply repeat the sequence while doing the usual view camera precautions about film holder and lens management.

 

The key thing is that one does not look at the subject through the camera but directly at the subject in a face to face way. The moment the subject's face does what you want go CLICK. A pre-aimed, pre-focussed view camera with a cocked shutter and containing a bare piece of film is the fastest thing in portrait photography...one shot at a time.

If you can find one, and can afford it, the 5" Linhof Vacuum roll back on a modified Linhof Master Technika would let you shoot 4x5" film

(up to 60' at a time, on 5" roll film (126mm) on a modified NATO spool at better then 1fps.

 

Of course you would also have to carry the 24V battery pack with it as well as the weight of the back and camera. But there are people

who do do it.

Hi Mark...

I saw a Gowlandflex on ebay recently. These cameras were twin lens reflex using 4 x 5 film. Peter Gowland developed the Gowlandflex for shooting models for his well know glamour work. I believe they were used both handheld and on stands. It would seem that the ability to maintain visual contact with your subject is important to you. The cameras are pretty rare and not cheap; they were designed for the kind of work you seem to favor and used by a true master. Could be an interesting thought.

 

Best of luck!

 

Ed Lee

As far as advice about the subject not moving you can always try <A HREF =

http://www.pdngallery.com/legends/newman/>Arnold Newman's</A> and <A HREF

=http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0312/an_intro.html> more Newman</a> fabled words to his subjects : "If you

move , I'll kill ya!"

Jerome,

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. The OP never mentioned becoming Karsh or Newman or any other "ace" photographer, never mentioned color, ad agencies, plead poverty or asked for anyone to assess the practicality of his goals, and never suggested LF would make him a better photographer. To imply LF portrait photography is comparable to brain surgery suggests nothing more than you might need the latter. LF portrait photography can be more challenging than smaller formats, but it can also be more forgiving, and it need not be expensive. It's people like you and posts like yours that discourage people from experiencing LF photography, and for that, you should be ashamed. I am neither wealthy nor a genius, yet I have managed, with no training, to make thousands of LF portraits of family and friends that I wouldn't trade for anything, and enjoyed myself immensely in the process.

 

Jay

Jerome is right, but he misses the point of the honest advice being given. We all know that the probablility of the OP actually atempting what he posts is 99% BS, but on the unlikely chance of that other 1% he's gotten the advantage of many, many years experience (for what it's worth).

No, Jerome is not right, and neither are you; we don't all know the probability that the OP is sincere, so we take him at his word, or don't bother to post. Those of us who do take him at his word could do without your cynical and worthless contribution to this thread.

 

Jay

i agree with jay

the graflex slr may be for you.

they are not too expensive.

a bag magazine is not too expensive

and a box of outdated film to play with

is pretty inexpensive.

 

have fun !

john

In my experience, the camera that sets up and shoots the fastest is the one you work with most often.

I would opine if you're interested in any kind of operating speed, you'll be selling any LF camera you might purchase within a week.

I love Ellis suggestion - I've felt I needed an assistant for a long time:-) (Actually, I was in a workshop with Alain Briot with

my 8x10 Arca Swiss somewhere in New Mexico - with 9 digital shooters. By the time I set up my tripod and camera they

were ready to move to the next location. Natalie Briot stepped in to assist me because it was getting a little crazy. She was

smooth in handling film holders etc. Totally helped).

<p>

Less the assistant - a press camera. Get a Graflex Super Speed Graphic with the 1/1000s twist cock lens. Fastest 4x5 I

ever shot. I do studio work with it. Street photography sometimes.

You need to start shooting LF and practicing. This question will rapidly lose it's relevance. All LF cameras require similar amounts of speed and dexterity to operate.

A Sinar P2 with an auto-aperture shutter and DB mount lenses would probably be the fastest to control as far as focusing, movements, and the actual shooting. It has a self-cocking shutter, automatically closes the shutter for you, and you can set the f stop from behind the camera. Combining this with a Grafmatic is about as fast as you will get in the world of large format.

 

However, a Graflex RB would probably give you the viewing method that is most like whatever you are using now.

 

But no matter how fast you shoot, there will always be the delay of swapping out the exposed film for a fresh sheet. THAT is when your subject will be moving out of position, and it will happen regardless of how fast you are.

 

In all honesty, if you are in a hurry, don't use these cameras.

 

The best way to get what you want will simply be to use flash...with any camera.

Mark,

 

I carry a Cambo 4x5 SF, (super field), monorail in a backpack, ready to shoot from the bag. I use a Kirk BH-1 quick

mount and can set it up and shoot in under three minutes, after years of use. I suppose you could also do the same with

a box camera, after regular use.

 

This camera also converts to a medium format view camera with a bellows and rear standard change. In that

configuration you can use a Horseman back and get 8 or more shots a roll, and lose very little in resolution at high

magnifications, thanks to drum scanning.

 

You will deal with a smaller ground glass for focusing, its removal and film back mounting but the smaller configuration is

much easier to manage.

I use a Linhof Master Technika as a inefficient snapshot camera - either with a masked viewfinder for 3200 speed Fuji

instant film, or a graphmatic back(worth. every. penny!).

 

Still not fast, but quick enough. Of course, where i really do want to run through 2 graphmatic backs in short order, a

bare-bulb sunpack 622 and a wide depth of field let me go all Weegee style without focusing - a bit silly, honestly, but the shots are fun:)

 

If you want to to get great quality while keep speed and flexibility, a Mamiya 7 or full-frame DLSR is likely a better

choice.