Pentax FF and new pro model on the way? Educated rumors-

I have seen two speculations that are completely possible. One is the Samsung/Pentax FF camera and the other is a Pentax version of a Leica M8 killer.

 

Pentax has the glass for the M8 killer and, I don't know of another camera manufacturer with as much experience in building small cameras. And, nor do I see anything at all spectacular about the M8 so, it looks like a fairly easy niche to occupy. I'd buy one.

Tom, I'd leap for an M8-killer at half M8 price (about same as 5D).

 

Smart of Hoya to build in Vietnam, but Vietnam's currency will inevitably rise faster than China's (which is still tied to the dollar), so Pentax prices will inevitably rise as well...unless they build in US or China.

 

It should be APS, should offer a multi-focus (not zoom) 2.8 lens with built-in bright frame, stabilization, and optional 14 and 70 with accessory finders.

I'd like to see the Pentax M8 killer incorporate the viewfinder into the body but have changeable screens. And I think it should have either no LCD or a very small one for less battery consumption.

First off I'd like to say I'd buy a pro model from Pentax almost undoubtedly. I'm trying to hold off on the K20D till september, but at the same time, I'd like to get it while there is still a 100 dollar rebate, buuut then again, the price may be down that much by September anyways. There's just a lot of things like rumors and time frames that have me wondering just what is going on.

 

Secondly, I want to address the bickering going on in this thread. When you decide to ignore someone, you don't instigate more conflict by doing so knowing full well they will respond to your snide condescending remarks. You give military service as a bade of superiority, well, no I take that back, you used the danger of military service as some badge of superiority, not even the idea of serving your country. Quite honestly I'd really like to expect a much higher level of maturity from someone who clearly feels some sort of duty and is putting their life on the line.

 

I don't want to get into politics right now, but you're fighting two trivial wars right now, why not just discuss the topic at hand without heightening unneeded conflict.

Everyone who is a regular here manages to get along with each other but it seems that a few non-regular individuals have an ax to grind with Pentax and or Pentax users. I don't see where these Pentax forum regulars go into the Canon or Nikon forums and instigate arguments. So why do these individuals feel the need to come here? Is it because they're jealous and bitter? Do they feel that they've been ripped off by Canon or Nikon or something? Maybe they can't stand to see us all getting along together and being happy about our camera choices? Very strange indeed.

Tom, I think part of the issue has to do with "professional."

 

From postings here, it appears there's little real experience with professional photography...less even than on Oly and Sony pages, which is hard to imagine. That encourages all sorts of wild notions about the role and capability of Pentax relative to other equipment.

 

IMO Pentax still lacks enough kit to be appropriate for most professional work. I bought K20D because it seemed like a step ahead vs film for my particular kind of non-professional work. I certainly would have gone with N or C if I hoped to make a living again with photography (back then I used new (!) FTn and F1)...because today both offer better strobe systems and both offer slightly better lens options (though P is catching up).

 

I can't imagine Pentax ever becoming a real player as pro equipment, but it certainly can eat Leica (and prosumer C & N) alive among demanding enthusiasts if it just sticks with basics and continues to refine them.

Oh my..

Pentax has size advantage over eos 5D. You want full frame K Mount you're likely looking at 5D size body or

bigger like Nikon D3, that is if you covet 9 frames per second raw.

Inbody IS is innovative and we'll have to see how Sony full frame with antishake sensor specs once its

available this fall and more importantly what it issues at price wise.

 

I have come to conclusion that my Eos 5D is just too big for wife to enjoy using, especially with biggie sized

eos glass I own now. So she'll get a K20D with Christmas

wrapping paper on it. Now that I own full frame dslr, after lusting for 5D since august 2005. its easier for me to

be

happy also owning with samsung/pentax/hoya crop system. Especially since we really need no more pentax

lenses with what we've got inhand. I rarely shop ebay for used pentax glass thesedays since I'm buying new eos

from B&H instead.

 

Now if I find my PK-A 300mm 2.8 & 1.7x mf-to-af converter combo mounted on my

wifes new antishake K20D is DYNO-MITE, I'll get a K20D for me too and sell off the 3 year old samsung pair

whiles there's still a few months left on their 4 year factory warantys.

 

I wish pentax included 4 year factory waranties on the "Pentax" logo'd dslrs too.

 

Lindy

Personally, for me it is not about brand, but more about the piece itself and what it can or can't do. I have shot photos with Nikon and also with Canon. At one point years ago, I nearly did switch to Canon, mainly because of their IS lenses, and full features of some SLR models. I was also especially impressed with the Minolta Maxxum 9 SLR.

 

Professional photography is a huge and very diverse field. Some equipment is especially suited to one or another segment of that field. We have a number of part-time (semi pro) and some professional photographers who shoot with Pentax have been regular contributors to this forum.

 

I think Pop's projections are completely plausible. As to FF, it seems other brands are already off the ground, while Samsung has also come up with a FF sensor, so Pentax will most probably not want to be left out. Should be interesting, though my interest is more one of curiosity at this point. I am perfectly satisfied with the FF results I get from my much less expensive, and very reliable, film bodies. I have always thought discontinuing the better FF lenses of the FA series was premature and unnnecessary. But those lens formulas still are there, that part of the work has been done, and some could re-emerge in an updated form.

"I will no longer entertain a battle of words with a faceless, nameless adversary."

 

I was having a discussion, and a disagreement. If you want to pretend you were in a battle then go ahead, but please do not pretend you won anything.

wow, what a thread. Very entertaining to see all the squabbles over rumors.

 

Just a comment: Pentax has had a long and profitable history catering to the pro market. The LX was mentioned but it was a minor player--at least in the US. The Pentax 6x7(67) and 645 lines of cameras were well respected among pro shooters. Some in this forum seems to forget that Pentax made anything other than 35mm cameras. 35mm was considered to be an acceptable format for photojournalism and certain areas of nature/action photography, but medium and larger formats were required for most other commercial work.

 

If anything, a small part of me wouldn't be surprised to see a FF samsung sensor revive the 645D project.

I keep meaning to write a long-arse post about the need, or rather lack thereof, for a full-frame Pentax camera. However, consumers aren't renowned for their use of logic and will mindlessly demand a FF camera. If they don't get one, I suspect and fear Pentax will lose what ground they've gained since late 2006.

"No they wouldn't.

They're into

anticipation

(planning) and

light, they don't

have customers for

grab shots."

 

Not all shots are

planned or

anticipated. Yes, if

you don't plan or

anticipate you are

not going to make it

a career but in case

you didn't notice,

not every PJ shot in

your local paper

wins an award. Some

are get there and

take a shot and get

it back to us ASAP.

Some they have more

time for, some ARE

GRAB SHOTS.

 

Did you ever hear

the expression "F/8

and be there"

 

I've taken some

flack from certain

members of this

board for

"anticipating" my

sports shots and

those are my bread

and butter but

sometimes I get

lucky and get a good

grab shot which is

better than anything

I could have

anticipated.

 

I chat with some of

the working pros at

events and they

bitch and moan about

their jobs just like

people with regular

non photography

paychecks do. What

I'm saying is your

idealic embodiment

of a working pro

just isn't accurate.

Pros I work with

still shoot D1H and

D1X. They don't buy

a new camera every

year. Their camera

is a tool, nothing

more. Many shoot

Leica's for fun not

as a backup or a

safety net but

rather to get away

from PJ and do

photography for

pleasure. G9s make a

great backup, but as

often as you see the

on camera strobe

fired, I've seen Pro

PJs firing G9s.

 

Any shot is better

than no shot when a

shot is needed.

Think the London

Bombings. Cells

phones with 640x480

resolution covered

the pages of major

papers.

 

If the difference

between geting a

shot or no shot

comes down to an on

camera strobe only a

fool would be too

proud to fire it.

 

I always like to

point out that the

OKC bombing pulizter

prize photos werent

taken by a "pro" but

rather an

amateur...maybe if

the pros weren't too

busy putting there

shoe mount flashes

on and switching

lenses they might

have won a prize

themselves.

 

Next John, you'll be

insisting that the

bulk of AP photogs

covering news in the

US don't shoot

30D/40D but rather

1D cameras? Say it

ain't so John, cause

it ain't!! Mostly

sports shooters use

the 1D series, not

general editorial

photographers.

 

And as David pointed

out, Pentax did in

fact have a fairly

profitable and

fairly well known

pro business. Even

in 2008 when I pick

up a Outdoor

photographer on the

full page spread

shots Pentax is

often mentioned in

the equipment. 645

and 67 systems had

and have a large

following in

landscape and nature

photogs. Pickup a

Nat Geo from a few

years ago and you'll

be suprised at how

many "pros" shot

Pentax MF systems.

 

35mm is the perfect

photojournalism and

adventure format.

But if anything it's

MUCH less

professional than

larger formats, and

even Pentax went so

far to say in it's

product literature

that there

"Professional"

medium format

systems were

available in all my

film camera

literature from the

1990s and early

2000s. Pentax never

considered 35mm

professional, and

never really tried

to compete after the

LX era in 35mm PJ

cameras.

"I keep meaning to write a long-arse post about the need, or rather lack thereof, for a full-frame Pentax camera. However, consumers aren't renowned for their use of logic and will mindlessly demand a FF camera. If they don't get one, I suspect and fear Pentax will lose what ground they've gained since late 2006."

 

What about Olympus? Where is their roadmapped FF camera? Are you saying Oly is going under?

 

Also, I always like to point out that if you go hang out with some of the young photographers of the world...you know the ones that NEVER shot a roll of film, many of them have no clue what FF is or why it's important (or rather why some people feel it is).

 

Bottom line, those hooligans will be buying the cameras over the next decade and companies build product to please those with the demographics and buying power to clear product from shelves.

"What about Olympus? Where is their roadmapped FF camera? Are you saying Oly is going under?"

 

I'm not saying anyone is going under, Justin. I'm saying I'm afraid Pentax might lose ground if they don't offer a full-frame camera in the next few years. This wouldn't be because FF is the bestest of the best and Pentax only makes crappy APS-C cameras, but because so many ignorant people actually believe this that they won't buy a Pentax camera "because it's not FF". You know, the same people that wouldn't buy K100Ds because "it's only 6MP" and went with a much worse digital rebel instead...because it was 8MP. [insert rolling eyes and sarcastic face here]

 

I don't believe FF is necessary, especially if it costs $3000+ a pop. In 24 months, APS-C CMOS sensors are going to be blowing current FF sensors out of the water. Maybe, *maybe* FF sensors in 24 months will be a lot better than APS-Cs, but if they still cost 4 times more, it doesn't really matter because most people won't actually buy them.

 

I'm tired of these speculations, and the Celtics just won the NBA championship, so I'm going to bed.

"Next John, you'll be insisting that the bulk of AP photogs covering news in the US don't shoot 30D/40D but rather 1D cameras?"

 

NO. But you've made my point.

 

(it'd be smarter for you to use much truth as you can muster..I didn't even hint anything like what you said)

 

Press photogs DO shoot light, cheap Canon (and Nikon) DSLRs because they're light and cheap and they're COMPATIBLE with pro DSLRs that are also available through their publications or future through rich uncles. Unfortunately, they rarely or never shoot Pentax. Do they?

 

I don't know where you live (I'm in a small city...65K), but the press photographers in my area do great work, obviously with "strobist" type methods...lights OFF camera. And they actually do shoot shoot D3 and similar for the most part. Obviously, no wedding part-timer uses on-camera flash. Who does that leave?

 

The quality of their work ON ASSIGNMENT, not dumb luck, determines their professional futures. Quality has NOTHING to do with accidentally catching OKC bombings or a drunk celeb exiting some bum's Hummer.

 

"Did you ever hear the expression "F/8 and be there"

 

What does that leftover from B&W street snapping have to do with DSLRs or flash?

 

"I always like to point out that the OKC bombing pulizter prize photos werent taken by a "pro" but rather an amateur.."

 

"Pro" doesn't entail hanging around public buildings at f8 in the event they get blown up.

Pentax WAS FORMERLY,

up until several

years ago,

successful in the

wedding market with

645, but that's

ancient history now

and has nothing to

do with

strobe-on-camera.

The 645 legacy won't

morph into the DSLR

wedding market

because the 645

lenses don't relate.

 

 

I used a 6X7 for all

sorts of commercial

purposes, that was a

Pentax winner... but

it was never really

BEST for anything

except industrial

photography. RB67

was much better for

portraits and Hass

was much better for

virtually everything

that couldn't be

done better with 35

(Nikon, Canon) or

sheet film.

 

Pentax has always

been justly famous

as a demanding

non-professional

enthusiast's camera.

The BEST Pentax film

35s were superb, but

pros virtually never

used them. Why

should Pentax bother

with markets it'll

never significantly

tap (mf/ff)?

 

I think Hoya should

build on that

enthusiast

reputation, since

K20D is actually as

good or better than

prosumer Nikons and

Canons, not to

mention Sony and

Oly.

...worth remembering, a successful professional writes off his equipment: cost of upgrade isn't a big deal.

 

Obviously, camera cos don't target marginal pros, except with prosumer models (D300, 5D)

 

If one's doing financially significant work it's not a big financial challenge to rent or own a top Nikon or Canon, (or digital Hass or Sinar...which cost about as much as smog control equipment in a typical gasoline service station, fyi).

 

I don't see Pentax fitting into that financial reality, no matter what kind of camera they cook up. But I do see them eating Leica's lunch, and Sony's, and certainly Oly's...if they want longterm survival in a big market.

Nothing in these rumors is yet a done deal, but because of the source, and the circumstantial evidence, they are

being taken more seriously than other similar rumors in the past.

 

Justin, great post. Very realistic about the real-life diversity of needs and thinking among various photographers,

both pro and non-pro. You are absolutely right, that it was indeed certain segments of pro photogs that would shoot

with 35mm at all, where it is best suited. Other segments of photogs would not go below medium format. Therefore

it is true that even in current times, MANY pros in those segments can still be found shooting with MF Pentax gear,

but NONE of them will be shooting with Nikon or with Canon, who have not made MF equipment.

 

I too have noticed the jutting lip of the DSLR bodies being much more than with film models. I figured with the film

models, designers were still concerned with easier access to an aperture ring, where that is all but disregarded in the

DSLR design. I did not think about a T&S lens- evidently, niether did the designers!! For some of the reasons you

give and other, I've not been real enthusiastic about a FF DSLR, but Pentax may nevertheless advance there, the

way things are going in general. My outlook is to wait and see what comes down the shute.

 

John- more categorizations and blanket statements!! What well-designed comprehensive studies can you direct us

to showing who did and did not use the Pentax LX?? That virtually no pros used it? It was modular design, and if

one needed in camera metering with very long exposure, it was the only game in town! It was on the market for

many years.

 

So the D300, 5D are not pro style, but "prosumer" models, and the only pro photogs who would stoop low enough to

buy them are the "marginal pros". Everyone is entitled to their opinions and their viewpoint, but it got me laughing. I

find that ridiculously snobbish. It reminds me how 10 years ago, the top-choice Nikon was the tank-like F5. Built

like a tank and handled like one. But it was also true that many pros actually preferred the N90 and upon arrival,

passed on the F5 for the new F100. I read their comments. But only the F5 had the ultra rugged metal contruction,

while the other two were made more like a now modern D200 or D300. (or K10D, K20D for that matter). Pros

hanging off a truck in the outback, camera swinging and knocking on everything needed the tank's extra battleship

build, and those needing MLU had no other choice!! Many pros simply not need the tank, but favored the

dimensions of the F100, which gave them all they needed, and did not hesitate to say so. It was reported as very

popular among pros as their main camera. So that means the F100 is a prosumer model, and those pros having it

as their main model are "marginal"? In fact, when the D200 arrived, the same thing happened. Many pros went for

it instead of the D2x. Many wrote in and stated so. The D200 is more full featured and built even better than the

F100! But I guess we had better have a category to differentiate these products and these photogs!

 

Why should Pentax offer these photogs something attractive since they can't be a "major player"... well, they've

never had the numbers of C or N. Of 5 best sellers, the D40 was second highest seller of DSLR market in the month

of March, 1st was the Canon rebel XTsi, then I think Sony and Oly so Pentax should bow out of the soccer mom &

dad market too, eh? Althoughh the K100D is a factually better camera than the D40.

 

In fact, how dare Pentax consider bothering and irritating C & N with their measly offerings, and look at that

unknowlegeable rabble who embrace their products!! Pentax should just go off into some corner and wrestle with

Leica in a small specialized market. And Sony? No, forget it- they are coming with the works, a FF DSLR.

 

At least you have apparently come to realize that Pentax DOES indeed have some tradition among pro

photographers. Your last statement to that effect largely nullifies your earlier posting in this thread, which stated

they had none.

Oh, and it's worth remembering, a tax write-off is not getting all your costs back, or even near so. It is a deduction from taxable income. It is money you do not pay taxes on. It is a savings to be sure, but that is it.

I love debating with you John, I remember when you told me that my computer was poorly setup without actually seeing my computer.

 

Suffice to say your certainly know more than most of us about photography and we are honored you decided to join the Pentaxian lifestyle of photography. It's the influx of the big name brand castoffs that keep this board alive and fresh. Without new ideas we'd stagnate and die.

 

Will you be coming to our group hug Thursday night?

If I understand the sentiment on this board, Pentax is not expected to produce anything outside the box of the conventional types and tiers of digital cameras (couple three tiers of p&s and of dslr).

Don, we do not know for sure, and rumors have come up about these matters before, but now it seems, some sources having inside contacts have concluded it likely that Pentax has plans afoot to expand. And why not, if Sony is doing so? I view it a mistake, however, especially for Pentax, to dismiss its relatively but attractively inexpensive, excellent K100D line. The Nikon 6mp D40 is still its best seller!

Don,

 

My sentiment is that FF is done, it's not a new or innovative concept. I truly believe that if photography started today we would not see a call for it.

 

The fact is it's the old timers, the purist that want FF and cannot live without it.

 

Why I feel Pentax will not, or should not go FF is that Pentax core focus for it's 35mm division was always smaller more compact, and lightweight bodies and lenses. It's why Pentax produced so many good f/4 lenses over the years, quite simply f/4 lenses fit it's philosphy.

 

1.5X allows Pentax to continue it's goal of compact (even miniaturized DSLRs) and while this might not entirely appeal to every user it certainly is a main reason I am a Pentax shooter to this day.

 

For me, I'd love to see the continuation of my camera bag becoming lighter and still equally useful. I don't believe a bigger sensor is the answer.

 

And quite frankly, just being another FF product isn't the answer either. Why not do what they have always done, and go their own route. Work on producing the best compact DSLRs possible with the most innovative or at least useful features.

 

Anyway, regardless of what they do I am quite certain no one will be without a camera or lens option. Thus I don't worry, but I do feel rushing to go FF when they could work on different aspects of design would be a mistake.

I think there is too much attached to the term Full Frame.. Think about it. If any manufacturer can make an APS sized sensor that produces the same resolutions as a Full Frame camera, then what is the bother? Moreover, at least with Pentax, we already have the glass to take care of any FOV concerns between APS and FF. So, I say this. Call a sensor whatever size you want, just produce FF results or better with it.