12x12' frame and stand recommendations?

I'm considering purchasing my first overhead frame, probably a 12x12, and I'll

also need stands to support it. So far I'm looking at the avenger A310

stands(14' wheeled stands), and the avenger 12x12 modular frame(1.2" square

black tube frame). The frame is made up of 4' sections, so it can be used as an

8x8 or 4x4 as well.

I plan to use it for everything from portraits to products to cars. I've never

done car photography, but I want to start experimenting with it. The largest

stands I currently own are C-stands. So far I've just made home made frames but

it seems like a real one would be a good investment. I'm a working/assisting

student, so I can get a student discount still. I think that should bring the

frame down to about 300, and the stands down to about 180 each roughly. Plus

the fabrics of course.

The matthews website is not very descriptive, but I'm considering them as well.

I'm definately leaning towards the avenger stuff though. Can anyone comment on

the structural quality of the avenger system? I will definately be using this

setup outdoors.

Also, the A300 stand gets 19' tall, and is only a little more expensive. Do you

think I'll ever need this extra 5 feet? It make the stand a little larger and

heavier, and I don't think I'd use the extra height, but maybe I'm wrong? This

will need to function as my largest stands, being used for the most heavy-duty

situations I may encounter. I hope to go into commercial photography, I'm not

yet sure which type. I do know I want to get the right setup now so I don't

need to replace it later.

I may just decide to keep making due with what I have, but rigging up a huge

fabric for the car experimentations I plan to do soon will be a huge hassle, and

I'm sure I'll want a real frame kit eventually.

Thanks for any advice on which frame to get/should I get one.

And one other question...

Whats the difference between fabric you find at a fabric store, and the fancy "china silk" and other expensive fabrics?

Color, durability, elasticity? Does the quality of light look any different than from a generic fabric of the same density?

One difference between fabric store fabric and the ready-made diffusion "silks" is that fabric store fabric comes in bolt widths. Which is usually 50-60 inches. So to DIY a large diffuser, you'll have to sew multiple widths of fabric together to reach 12 ft.

<Chas>

you mentioned good products i have worked with them or own them and speak highly of them. the A310 is called a med hi

roller, also consider a hi hi roller/7-21ft for outside. tie it down if outside, and it will need to people to set it up. the extra

height isnt that that better, its more the strength of it since it needs to go high, its better to use it at lower heights, also it has a

larger leg spread.

for home made, go to a metal shop to purchase the frame itself cheap, get all the connectors/corners/ears at bh photo. the

fabrics are worth it to buy them from a store. they have reinforced edges with grommets.

ive worked with the matthews artificial silks and its just nylon, single layer. didnt have the little squares that rip stop nylon has,

and it has a super nice finished edge.

china silk is supposed to be softer, as the artificial silk has really small holes in it that let in hard light, but i think its bull..

could be wrong though.

matthews/avenger stands are almost the same thing, i just go for the cheapest version of the same stand.

i had a 12by frame and art silk rag for like $600 which wasnt bad (frame 400/rag 200 or a little less). i think the frame was a

matthews snap a part or just a frame....frame.

a friend of mine that works with overheads alot, sees the beefy stands that hold them which seem indestructible snap in the

wind with an overhead. put the top stand extension up all the way then pull it down a foot or two or it can snap. apparently the

walls of the stand risers is really thin, like 1/16th inch.

Thanks for the advice. The A300 and A310 actually have the same leg spread. And I wonder if the A300 really does have beefier walls, or if the just make them both with thicker walls to avoid having to use two types of metals? I'd definately get the A300 if it's walls were thicker.

Bogen's website currently says that the student discount program runs through 06/2008, but once you click on the link for the form, it says it ends 12/2007. So I may not be able to get the discount anymore. This would certainly throw a wrench in the plan. A local stores going to check with a rep for me on monday to find out what the deal is, and if the program has been discontinued or not.

Thanks again.

Ouch, I just got the student discount quotes. There really not that great at all. A300-$292, A310-$269, H1200M frame-$470. Thats a lot less of a discount than I expected. Only 4-9% off of B&H prices.

When I bought my c-stands through the same program, they were $120, or $180 on B&H. That's 30% off!

I wonder if the camera store could be marking it up without telling me? Or if prices have risen from the weakening dollar. The other two camera stores in town won't do the student discount anymore, they say they the markup is too low and they don't make enough money. I think thats ridiculous because the purpose of the discount is to for relationships with students that will lead to future business when they're not students.

Josh, I hope your business savvy improves once you're out in the real world!

"The other two camera stores in town" have it right. They operate on razor thin margins and sell a miniscule volume of product compared to B&H, which sells quadrillions of items and can much more readily pass on manufacturers' discounts.

The purpose of the discount is to lock students into a particular brand of strobe and try to keep them coming back for more. The discount benefits the manufacturer, if anyone, not the local store, from whom you may never buy another item once you've moved on to bigger and better things.

I appreciate the perspective but disagree. First off I never compared my local camera stores to B&H nor did I try to hold them to the same standard. I used B&H as a frame or reference to show how large the student discount was. I didn't make the purchase through B&H. I would never expect a camera store to compete with B&H prices.

And just like manufacturers locking in customers through discounts, so would my local camera store. I always shop at the same local store, even though we have three, because I've developed a relationship with them. So relationships are important, and the camera store could use the student discount for that very same purpose. And offering that student discount, which is not available through B&H as far as I'm aware, unless I'd come to NY to pick up the products, will help cement the relationship between me and my local store. It will give me more reason to come to them for my regular purchases, even though B&H and Adorama are cheaper.