jon_kobeck1 Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Ok, I have a hard time very ofton deciding if I want to keep a particular image in color or B&W. I was wondering how you photographers who shoot both black and white and color make this decision? Please see the attached 2 images and tell me what you think. this is NOT a CRITIQUE, just asking how you make that decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_kobeck1 Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 HERe is the Black and White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott aitken Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Good question. Sometimes it is really obvious. Things like sunsets, flowers, a forest fire, or a woman in a bright red dress, all seem to naturally want to be in color. The color leaps out at you, and is an important element in the photo. Other times, the natural colors are dull, or there is a lot of texture or pattern and color would be distracting. These seem like more natural candidates for B&W. Wedding are often nice in B&W, especially if the bride and groom and most of the wedding party is dressed in black or white anyway. Also, B&W tends to evoke an older time period. If your subject is old, or evokes an older feeling, sometimes B&W looks more natural than color. Some people also think making a photo B&W looks more artistic (although I think this is a false premise; a crappy photo in color is still a crappy photo in B&W). None of this is hard and fast, of course. There are certainly no absolutes. In your example, I think a case can be made for either version. It kind of depends on what you want to use the photo for, or what kind of mood you wish to evoke. The color in the colored version is quite strong and bold. In this version, the color itself is a compelling element. It might work well as a stock photo, where sometimes a photo is chosen just for the color scheme, to liven up a page or a presentation. The B&W version removes that element, and I find that I pay more attention to the man in the photo. The texture in his shirt, his hair, and the veins and wrinkles in his hands. If you want the viewer to focus more on the man, then this is the better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 In the case of your photos, the orange color balance would make me want to knock it down to B&W. If color is important to the photo, I shoot it in color, such as a rainbow. If color is not a important part of the subject, I shoot it in B&W. I hardly ever shoot something in color and then make it B&W, this is decided before I shoot the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixg Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 This is probably going to sound glib, but it's true: I see the picture, then make the exposure. If I see a monochrome picture, I take a monochrome picture; if I see a colour picture, I take a colour picture.</p> <p>The essence of photographic vision is previsualisation: knowing what you want <i>before</i> pressing the button, not afterwards.</p> <p>Turning a colour image into a monochrome one afterwards, because it didn't work in colour, isn't a viable answer. Look at what you see, decide what you want the result to be ... then proceed on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixg Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Sorry ... the image you included...</p> <p>I would have seen, and planned, this one in monochrome. Reason: all the interest in the image is in the tonalities, textures and type - the colour adds nothing and even if you corrected it would only distract from what's really going on visually. In fact, the way you've presented it, it already <i><b>is</b></i> more or less monochrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancouverphotographer Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 michael, felix ... any technical reason for not converting to b/w later on the pc? i'm sure u can envision b/w vs colour better than me but what if something is so clear cut as to be in b/w or colour, woudn't the option of doing it later after more reflection be a good idea unless there's some difference you can see between a b/w image done in-camera or later on converted on the pc? thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Shoot in color (assuming digital capture), convert, and see which you like better. Despite what others say, that's a fine method. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_kobeck1 Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Felix: if shooting digitally, why not simply convert to B&W in photoshop, that way you have both options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 >>> if shooting digitally, why not simply convert to B&W in photoshop, that way you have both options? Not only that, you retain a ton more flexibility with respect to input color filtration in post than if you had the cam capture monochrome. Night and day difference on the possibilities retained. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristina_kraft Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I like to search. I like to hear my inner feeling when I want to make BW photos. I usually use color, but there is a moments, the situations in which I can feel that BW would be much more appealing, sensitive, passionately too. Specially if the structure and texture are of a valuable mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josoiii Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 hard to live your life in color, when the world only sees it in black & white! If a image has alot highlights and shadows I like to convert that to a b/w. If a photo has alot of neutral gray it does not make a nice b/w. to enhance line detail b/w is a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Why would it be one or the other? I shoot color, but I often also make B&W versions of the same pictures as well as manipulating variables in color too. Hooray for graphics programs!--in this way (maybe alone of all things) you can truly "have it all", Ms K Hepburn, not withstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 "Turning a colour image into a monochrome one afterwards, because it didn't work in colour, isn't a viable answer." --Felix Grant. Why not? If it works in B&W, then it works, regardless of one's intent or "previsualization." When we get the image up on the screen, that is when we make the final decisions, not in the field. That may be a heresy to some, but that is the reality because we often do not see all of the possibilities at the time we shoot. --Lannie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randall ellis Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I tend to shoot with the end result in mind myself, so I have already decided what the print will look like when I release the shutter. Color, to my eye, is a tool, just like any other element of a photograph, so if I see something that I feel like photographing my mind goes through a quick analysis of the importance of the elements and if color is required to capture my feeling then I use color, if not I use black and white. <BR><BR> Using the example you gave, and keeping in mind that all I have to interpret the situation is that one image without any other information, I would have shot it in black and white. The orange tint does nothing that I can see to impart anything to the image, again, given that I have no background on the situation at hand. Black and white removes the unnecessary element, color, and presents a man showing emotion. You, having been there and therefore having more information to work with to interpret the best way to convey your intent, may feel that the color is needed for some reason that is not apparent to me. <BR><BR> Getting back to your question, I certainly agree with Scott's assessment that a poor photograph is poor regardless of it's being in color or black and white, but I think that there is more than an 'old time feel' to black and white. Monotone presents, to me anyway, and abstracted view of the scene. Life is in color, and to remove something is to abstract it from it's setting, just as is framing and cropping - you are selecting what to present to the viewer in order to convey a feeling. Black and white (and color for that matter) is a photographic tool for conveying an idea, not just a gimmick. I often choose to omit color because it places more emphasis on the <I>elements</I> of the scene at hand rather than the <i>whole</I> of the scene. <BR><BR> - Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonmestrom Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Mostly it has to do with preference. I'm predominantly a b&w photographer. Did that on film and now do it afterwards in Photoshop. But some subjects I simply work prefer in color The essence of photographic vision is NOT previsualisation. The essence of the Zone system is previsualisation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeaster Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I tried color once. Wasn't impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_hamming Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 For me it's a decision I make specific to the camera I'm using. Digital is color, and film is b/w (and then it's 35 or MF). I often make the decision before leaving the house, as I don't want to neccesarily bring 2 camera's. Yeah, there's always shot's I wish I had the "other" camera, but oh well. I've tried b/w digital and it just doesn't work for me. I'd rather come out of the darkroom with a b/w print in hand. Digital is definately better for "mass" sharing and color, IMO. Each has their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timzeipekis Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I'm surprised at how many people think color has no role in the above examples. The orange glow really adds to the tension of the image, the man looks stressed and the sign read "take your time" The color is hot, almost annoying and I think plays a crucial role in that image. The B&W doesn't convey the same feeling to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_k4 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I've never really experienced film in B&W or colour to any extent, too young I guess, most of my photography has been done on digital. When I started, I would often be annoyed by the fact that someone could take an extremely mediocre photograph, photoshop it into B&W and all of a sudden the pictures gets praised, and may even be considered 'art' It seemed to me to be a "cheap trick" or something. well eventually I broke down and tried it out myself, and much to my chagrin, I indeed COULD make some/many of my photos look worlds better in B/W! I'm starting to realize that photograph really IS an ART, and there are NO rules! except to make what you want with the tools you have. It's all about the emotion, and if B/W draws the emotion you're looking for...so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_Cooper11664875449 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Regardless of the photo used here, one common problem with B&W conversions is they end up as a mix of muddy mid tones like this one. It certainly needs to be worked a lot more as a B&W image. A good B&W is "not" just a conversion with maybe some colour filtration; the tonality and contrast between what a colour image usually has and what a B&W image requires is very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixg Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Dale, Brad, Jon...</p> <p>No technical reason not to shoot now and decide later. Nor, if you like that way, is there any nontechnical reason.</p> <p>I'm not telling anyone else what to do - simply providing a personal answer to Jon's question. I believe that to get the best picture you have to previsualise it: you must see the picture in your head before you press the button. If I believe that, then I must also see it in either monochrome or colour and then follow that through.</p> <p>I work 95% digital these days, so I have no choice about shooting colour and converting to monochrome later - but the decision to make that conversion is <i>always</i> made before exposure, not afterwards. Decisions about filtration are made at the same time - before exposure, not on the computer which implements them.</p> <p>But, that's me, supplying my own personal answer. Other answers, from other people, are equally valid - just not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felixg Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Landrum: "When we get the image up on the screen, that is when we make the final decisions, not in the field." Not "we" ... you make your final decisions then; I do not. It's not a "heresy" as you put it, but nor is it "the reality" - it's just your personal choice, just as mine is to previsualise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott2 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I would suggest that there is no right or wrong approach to this issue. I think the simple answer is do what works for you. I do not understand this idea that the decision should be made before shooting, why? Also I do not understand this concept that because a photo has been converted from colour to mono it means a poor colour photo has been fixed, or it is cheating because it was not previsualized. again why should this be so? Many of my mono and duo conversions started life off as colour. It is a process that works for me. I have seen many examples by others of fine works that were done in the same way. Examples of mine can be seen at http://www.pbase.com/jellophoto/trees_in_winter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmwhee Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 With regard to your pictures, I prefer the bw version, for the figure stands out against the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now