why is color off in my film scans?

I recently got these scans back of Portra 160 VC (120 size). I had a local lab do it on their Epson V700 to

see if I liked the output from this scanner.

 

Here's the scan:<div></div>

Here's the original taken with a DSLR. The color here is much more accurate. Notice the ugly

magenta hues in the preceding film scan. I couldn't get rid of the magenta colors.<div></div>

Sorry, my mistake: the color film was Reala 100. Was there something the scan operator did

wrong, or is this typical output from color negative film?

 

Additional info: both cameras were on a tripod. The Pentax was sharper when viewed at

11x17.

Can be many issues. Are you using a calibrated monitor and did you alter the images before webposting.

 

What did the lab do? What did he adjust, is his/her monitor calibrated, was it a manual adjust to overide or was it a straight auto scan. What software was used to scan - Epson Scan, Vuescan, Silverfast? I can also depend on some film, some film with some software may not be a good mix or need manual adjustment, some films are not as easy to scan as others.

 

 

When you are comparing the digital image - is that auto WB or what?

 

 

When you scan you have control of the color tint or WB. IMHO I think digital is more color correct than film. Diff film will have a diff flavour .... not all films are neutral. Because of that with film for color accuracy I sort of like slide film so at least I can see what the film actually was. But still the if you compare the film to the monitor it still won't be totally the same - cos you have a scanner in between.

For good scans you do need intervention for scanning just like the guy behind the lab machine. V700 is not a dedicated scanner its a flatbed scanner - for a good comparison you need to look at the Nikon Coolscan 8000 or 9000. The user also needs to scan the film at a high reso to compare it .. min 4000 dpi regardless on what scanner.

So it's reasonable to assume that with the right settings, the V700 can get the correct colors

with this film?

I think the magenta cast is due to tired chemistry or other similar operator/equipment issue. That's just a guess; I can't think of another explanation for the inconsistency I get with various rolls of Reala. Sometimes spot on, sometimes a 'lavender' -- I've not gotten anything I'd call magenta -- cast. It can be corrected in software.

I have the Epson V700 and I have shot with 35mm film - array of film choices one of it included Kodak Portra VC - I will scan and post an example later today. The scans will be small size with ICE turned off and auto scan with Epson Scan software.

 

In my experience with Vuescan auto does not work - the water is like cyan water color. With Silverfast provided w/ my scanner SE version - I get a grainy magenta shift. So now I use Epson Scan with the V700. Slide film was good on both.

 

I have found that Fuji NPS - the former Pro 160S was more neutral.

 

My gut feeling is that the scanner depending on the composition will auto expose and auto color. That's the life of scanners IMHO. Take what it gives you and be willing to post process it.

Eg1.<div></div>

Eg2.<div></div>

It is simply a matter of the scanner needing calibration just as the monitor does. There are many hardware solutions to the problem like the eye one photo.

I looked into calibration for scanner but still not certain.

 

Yes, you should calibrate the monitor. But the scanner there are no negative film iT8 available. If you look there are one or two maybe but they are not said to be reputable. For slide film there are. iT8 are like little film pieces that you pop on scanner and scan them - many types from Pictocolor :In-Camera" PS Plugin which makes you a ICC file - like printer custom profiling but you can use the PS's assign profile then the colors are "supposed" to neutralised.

 

I think film is hard if not impossible because they are not cheap maybe like $50US for each type of film iT8 - for slide film. For negative film, it has more lattitude its not full color - its brown film so its questionable. For negative film you can under or over expose and its still usable - so how does iT8 deal with that ..

 

Above all for all film you may have film sample variance and lab processing variances. Diff film can react differently to diff color and color temperature.

 

I've found my scanner is pretty neutal and like the lab guy you need to PP and like what a digital user does as well. If you want color correct, one solution is maybe in each area and each change of light - shoot the scene with a Gregtag Macbeth (now Xrite) Colorchecker chart or a WhiBal chart. Use the WB dropper of the software to reference it.

My cheapo Canon 4400F gives a magenta cast with Reala. Easy to correct because the amount is always pretty much the same, just had to figure out the values once, but of course annoying.

 

If you can't get even 6Mp dSLR quality from a MF scan I wouldn't bother with that lab anyway...

You only need to calibrate once for reversal film for "what you see is what you get" results. There are too many parameters when scanning negative film for a single profile. Silverfast comes close by providing separate profiles for many different films in their "Negafix" option - close but no cigar.

 

As Ray suggests, you can use a white or grey card in the image area and use that patch to set the white/grey point. You can use a Color Checker chart and create a profile using Eye One (Xrite) software or the InCamera (Pictocolor) Photoshop plugin (or stand-alone). This technique can also be used with reversal film to compensate for the lighting or environment for utmost accuracy (i.e., "what you SEE is not what you WANT").

I have had similar color shifts with slide scans, and I could not correct them! examination showed the slide wasn't neutral (more difficult to discover with film, but you could try to get a print from a lab to be sure). Tired chemistry sounds like possible problem to me.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but I have had similar issues with scanning slides and photos, but it's only taken a little color correction with PS to fix. Even if the film/photo is REALLY bad I've been able to correct it for the most part. "auto color" in PS CS3 does a pretty decent job without much more than a few seconds of manipulation.

 

If the color looks bad on the film that's hard to see if it's negative film. I prefer to shoot with Velvia so I can look at the film and judge it (somewhat) by eye before paying for the processing or scanning.

 

I've had others tell me about poor monitor calibration causing color problems like the one you're seeing but if the scanned photo has color aberrations and the dSLR shot doesn't (on the same monitor) it's probably not that. It's more likely that the scan wasn't done very well or wasn't corrected well at the lab. The sharpness also looks much worse so I'm guessing you had a newbie do your scan or something, or maybe the whole lab is bad.

 

Maybe have the film scanned by another party and see if its any better. If so, drop the first lab who did it. If the film processing was a problem, I'm sorry, that's heartbreaking to have a lab ruin or lose pictures. That said, the color issues should be able to be corrected in PS. Good luck.

The lab should not be using flatbed scanners to do professionals scans for you. You should be using CCD scanners at least.

 

 

However, if you wanted them to try the V700 scanner because you are wanting to see if you like it and buy one - then cool. There is also a issue that does the person know what they are doing ...... Maybe one option is to buy and see for yourself or at least take a laptop to a store and try it out ... (take some film too) and see if you like it. You can download the V700 scanner off the Epson site for free. You can also download Silverfast and Vuescan both workable demo's off the net too ..... I would see if full auto works of each and if you like them .. I would scan them straight with all features disabled and for a resolution of 4000 dpi. You can scan the images via Photoshop and use whatever import function you want from each of those 3 software but I think Vuescan does not work via Photoshop maybe the pro version only .. that may be a standalone version.