Can someone recommend other good rangefinder cameras?

Sorry, I know this is kind of a vague and open question. But I'm looking for

another vintage camera to add to my collection. I have two Argus C3 cameras

(and a bunch of 8mm movie cameras, but that's another subject). I was

wondering, what are some other good 35mm rangefinder cameras I should look

for? I'm looking for something sort of like the Argus...very simple and easy

to use, no meters (all manual, no "auto" anything), and something fairly

rugged and reliable. I can't spend that much money.

 

Okay, let me rephrase my question. I guess what I mean, if you were to

recommend a manual 35mm camera to someone to learn with, what cameras would

you recommend? A lot of websites say the Argus, and I have to agree 100

percent that it has been the perfect camera for me. But what is another good

camera I should have? I'm looking on eBay, and I'm hoping I can find

something that will sell for fairly cheap.

 

- Chris

Depends on whether you're prepared to do your own repairs. Lots of leaf shutter rangefinders out there, but they may need some maintenance to the shutter. That's especially a risk buying on eBay. Otherwise, haunt The Salvation Army and Goodwill, to see if a manual leaf-shutter rangefinder that's working well shows up. Or talk to your local camera repair person, see what they can fix at a modest price.

 

A Kodak Retina II is likely to show up in working order, but a Retina IIa or higher is a bad risk.

 

The Aires Viscount goes very cheap, nice 45/1.9 lens, Seikosha shutter, but some parts are a bit fragile.

The Kodak Pony 135 is a pretty bare bones camera, lighter than the Brick and the shutter appears to be pretty reliable on them... nice compliment to the Brick, being American made. Other than that there are litterally thousands of small cameras that fit into your description. Most cheap cameras didn't come with meters until the 1960s, so a great many of your 1950's and prior cameras are all-manual settings. Basically the only cameras I would avoid are the Agfa's because they seem to have a pretty regular problem with the grease freezing up on the focus. You're best bet is usually whatever you can find for cheap that the shutter runs.

I love these posts, because they end up becoming a shopping list of sorts, but anyway...I think another camera to consider is the Kodak Signet 35, although sometimes they go for a little more than "cheap" on ebay. I've got a couple and I've taken some beautiful pictures with them. However, since you're familiar with Argus and like what you've been able to do with an Argus, why don't you stick with that brand and try an Argus C-44 or the C-44R with the fast advance lever. The C-44 is really a nice camera that has a nice feel to it, and allows you to change lenses (35mm, 50mm, 100mm), and usually doesn't cost much at all. In some ways it's familiar territory because it has a rangefinder focus wheel similar to the C3. They're usually pretty easy to find also.

I've a Yashica Lynx 5000 or 1000 on my shopping list.

This is like learning to drive GranPrix on the cheap with a Ford stock car. It just does not get you there.

 

Get a cheap digi, figure out what you need that is different/better then get it in film. It is cheaper to learn on film and just put the images into the computer.

 

This is from a 75% film guy.

 

Another option is any working 1960 slr like a Pentax, Canon, Minolta, or Nikon. All are cheap and more versatile than Argust, rhymes with disgust.

 

If the budgest is $10, get a disposable . No joke. I have seen half decent 8x10`s from them.

What's "cheap ?"

I have to disagree with Ronald, not because he says get a digital camera, but because the only way you are going to have exposure control and learn anything about photography with a digital is to invest in a digital SLR system, with all its googals and wayy too many buttons, and personally I cannot stand the things because of all the buttons. I do however agree that a film SLR from the 1970s is another way to go because some models offered a meter and most of them you could turn the meter off if you don't want it. You can find many of them for under $100 in working order. However there is a great thrill to using a little rangefinder camera. I've got an Iloca Realist 35 that I just love, its compact and quirky, but I think it's a little sought after so listings I've seen for them are a little high.

Ronald, I already use a digital camera right now. I'm not a professional photographer or anything, I just want another film camera to have fun with, and I want to try different kinds. Until now, I've always used digital cameras...well, except when I was a kid when I used cheap 35mm cameras and disposable cameras.

 

I'll have to differ with you about Argus. So far, it has taken great pictures that sometimes are even better than my 8 mp digital camera. And it definitely takes better pictures than a disposable! Yuck! I don't even see how they could be compared! Disposable cameras always seem to be overexposed, with horrible color fringing. The focus on both "Bricks" I have seems to be very sharp, with great colors.

 

I'm not doing this because I don't have a digital or don't want to use one. Of course, I do have what people would probably call a "cheap" consumer digital camera. But I just like the control and different effects I can get with a manual 35mm camera. Anyone can point and press a button. I guess to keep with your analogy, Ronald...this is like someone who has drove an automatic sedan for years, and just wants to try out a stick shift just for the heck of it. It doesn't mean I'm going to go on the Autobahn, it's just nice to know how. I just want to try something different.

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Patrick, I did notice there are a lot of Kodak Pony 135's on eBay right now. So I might get one of those. And Andy, I like your suggestion, I just might try out one of those cameras since I do really like the C3.

 

Thanks again! If anyone can think of any others, let me know!

hehehe...I posted a reply right before I saw your last one, Patrick! Yeah, I definitely agree with you. In fact, that is the exact reason why I want an old manual 35mm camera. I want to set the exposure and focus myself. I already have a digital camera, and until now that's all I used. But it's just a consumer "cheap" camera. Yeah, it takes nice pictures, but I really don't have the control I want, and I feel like I'm not learning anything by just pressing buttons. In order for me to get the same features in a digital camera, I'd have to pay a lot more $$$, and I'm a broke college student and just don't have that.

 

I still use digital. But it's just more fun using an antique manual camera.

Kiev 4's are cheap and pretty good and have a bright viewfinder. Else the rarer and more expensive Tenax II is one of my favorite, meterless rangefinders -- beautiful camera with a very distinctive design for square 24x24mm images.

Kiev 4 is cheap but you might need to learn how to fix it before you use it. I think Kodak Retina IIIc/IIc is better. THe RF is bright and cleer, it allows you to change lens with 35/85mm.

Here's another vote for the Kiev 4 rangefinders. A lot of people are selling them on FlEaBay and a lot of them have gotten smart and are fixing them before selling them so they work.

You can find them for well under 50 bucks and the lenses are tack sharp. Also you can buy the Excellent Russian made lenses for them from 35-135mm.

Try to get one with the more modern 53mm 1.8 Helios lens. That is a star performer and vastly underrated optic!<div></div>

A Retina II, which has been suggested, is probably the most reliable of the rangefinder Retinas. Very good camera. Also look for a Konica I, sometimes just simply called Konica. Sometimes you can find a good Vitomatic II at a good price.

If you would like to try another Argus, get a C4. They are quite a bit nicer than the C3, and have a big, bright VF/rangefinder.

If I was picking a camera for myself, though, using your criteria, I would choose an Olympus 35-S or a Yashica Minister D. Both usually run well below $50.

 

For the FSU cameras, the FED 2 is probably a good bet. They are very sturdy as long as you get one in decent shape. The Kiev is another good one, but are quite complicated to fix if they quit on you.

 

The Kodak Pony has no rangefinder. Just guess focus. But they are cheap enough.

Chris:

There are a whole bunch of fixed lens rangefinders from the 1960s and 1970s such as the Canon Canonets or Minolta Hi Matics that might fit the bill. Most have built in light meters with aperature priority as their automatic shooting modes, but also allow full manual control. Do a Google search for rangefinder cameras and you'll find plenty of sites about these little cameras. If you find one or two that interest you, I'm betting you can find them on Ebay without much trouble.

I agree that the Fed and Zorki RF's are nice cameras when you get one that's working (I've never gotten one that works out of the box though). My Retina IIa works fine with no service... nice reasonably cheap camera.

 

Really though, why a range finder over SLR? Many more excellent all manual/mechanical SLR's and lenses available for very cheap prices...

Good luck on finding a Kodak Signet 35 that works, you may only have to buy six or seven before you find one. Forget it. Next best to the Argus C3 would be an Argus C4 or C44. I also agree with the Yashica Lynx 1000 or 5000 suggestion. Most imortant, get yourself a decent light meter, you'll never get consistently good photos without one. I recommend the Gossen Pilot or Pilot 2, both now are quite inexpensive.<div></div>

Hi, Chris OK, so you want a cheap, all-manual, CRF 35mm that's easy to use but gives good results, right?

 

I reckon just about any of the many Yashica 35mm models fit your bill. It's amazing how little they go for on Fleabuy, clearly because hardly anybody collects them today. I'd avoid the electronic-wondergizmo'd GSN models though, because they need an expensive (and rare) battery to work.

 

Any of the CDS-battery metered models where the meter isn't linked to the lens aperture or shutter, such as the Minister series, would do you fine. You just remove the battery and use it totally manually. Even better would be to get one with a U/S meter, because it would go for even less than the pittance they go for when fully working.

 

The Ricoh 500 series also go for peanuts, but are damn fine little cameras. I used a 500 GS for years and still have it somewhere.

 

The trouble with some of the other late 50s and early 60s Japanese stuff is that they are "collectable", so you won't get a nice-looking Aires, Royal, Beauty, MInolta, Konica or even Yamato in working condition for the $25 that Yashicas and Ricohs often go for.

 

I'd forget any German CRF stuff. If it's any good, like say Retinas, Diaxes, AGFA Super Silette/Ambi Silette or Karat, it's gonna cost you because these too are "collectable". If you can do without a CRF, you can sometimes pick up an AGFA Silette with a nice Solinar lens for a relative pittance. I'd especially avoid any Dacora stuff because it's crap.

 

I gather you must be in the US of A, so maybe one of those awful-looking Kodak 35 RF models might fit the bill. They don't seem to fetch much but get excellent reports still regarding their lens performance. (Pete In Perth)

Since you're wanting a camera with no meter, I agree with David's suggestion of the C-4; I overlooked that one. It's also a nice, solid camera, basically a C-44 without interchangeable lenses, but the lens it has on it is pretty sharp. And it looks kind of cool!

Thanks for all the replies and great tips, guys! Okay, so I think what I'm kind of narrowing it down to right now is definitely an Argus C-4, Argus C-44, Kodak Retina II, or Yashica Minister. I really like my C-3, so I might check out eBay for a C-4 or C-44 right now. And I agree that the C-4 does look pretty cool! I'll keep the Kiev 4 and other cameras in mind too.

 

I'm watching a Yashica Minister on eBay, and there are quite a few Argus cameras being sold right now. Maybe I'll just get both?

 

You saved me a lot of trouble! I don't know anything about these cameras, so it's a big help knowing which ones are more reliable!

 

At first, I looked at the Kodak Pony. But since it doesn't have a rangefinder, that turned me off. I don't want to have to guess on focus...I can just see that being a problem.

...oh, by the way, I'm not so much against the idea of the camera having a meter, I just don't want it coupled to the aperture, or at least it has to have a complete manual override. I'd like to use the meter as more of a guide than have it automatically set the exposure.

A great rangefinder with an old, uncoupled exposure meter (which I don't use) is the Yashica Lynx 14/14E. It's a beautiful camera with a huge and stellar Yashinon 45mm f/1.4 lens -- one of my all-time favorite lenses in 35mm format. The brightness of the rangefinder patch in the viewfinder is not so hot, however, but then again, the camera is not really that expensive.<div></div>

Thanks for the tip about the Lynx 14. I definitely agree, that is an AWESOME looking camera! As far as the range finder goes, the finder on my Argus cameras was never that bright or easy to see either, but I manage okay.

 

So I'll add the Yashica Lynx 14 to my wish list.

 

I guess you were right, Andy, it is turning into a shopping list! :)

Run away Chris before it's too late, or you'll be hooked like the rest of us. It's a wonderful addiction though! :)