Robert Doisneau and Leica Photography

On the weekend I bought a big book of Robert Doisneau's photographs. I have

always liked his shots of Paris and I was surprised that most of his best work

was done with a Rolleiflex! I shouldn't have been surprised, but I just tend to

associate such decisive moment shots with HCB and Leicas. I still think of his

work as Leica style photography.

Sorry to disappoint but many of Doisneau's "D"-moment shots are staged...

...were staged

I thought his use of the Rollei was well-known and also staging his "spontaneous" compositons. It shouldn't keep anyone from enjoying his work, however.

What if HCB staged his shots, would you think less of him or his photos Bill?

"...were staged"

 

---Ever notice the confusion between past and present tense in regard to photos? You show some photos to a guest, and they will ask, "Where are these taken." It is common to phrase this in the present tense, even though the pictures were already taken; they are not now still being taken.

 

I have long wondered whether it is acceptable to put the question in the present tense. But when Leslie wrote that the pictures are staged, it did not occur to me (as it did to Leslie) that the past tense might be better. It sounded right. The pictures are staged. They were staged back then, and since they are the same pictures, they are still staged now. No correction needed. Yet, "Where are these pictures taken" sounds wrong. They were already taken when they were taken; they are not still being taken now. Maybe someone else is taking a similar picture, but mine are done. It's a different context from Leslie saying the pictures are staged--which sounds OK to me.

 

Any English professors in out group? Can you say "Where are these pictures taken" when the taking is all over with?

"Where are these pictures taken?" is just plain wrong - and I for one can sympathise with your discombobulation over the phraseology. As for the phrase "the pictures are staged" again we are confusing tense here are we not?<p> People should also wake up to the fact that photographers ( even now dead famous ones) have always been scammers living on the edges of polite and civil society - staging and post shot manipulation are just two of their many sins.

Peter

Your point is well made and would Mr HCB and have such a great body of work if he had had to have a job like most of us. Lesley the answer to your question is a categorical yes, the beauty of Cartier Bresson's work was surely his ability to see things and capture them not create them. If his pictures were staged they would have little or no value.

 

Steve

I loved HC-B's pictures long before I knew how he worked. Knowing it only made me respect the man even more (as a photographer), but it didn't change my attitude toward the images themselves. At least I don't think it did.<div></div>

I know that "The Kiss" in front of the Hotel de Ville was staged. And it happens to be one of his most famous pieces. But I'm not sure that "most" of his other work was staged as well.

Doisneau's most famous shot staged basically because he had to fulfill a brief for a US

magazine. I don't think that necessarily means that many of his other shots were but I'm just

guessing. For a more learned answer we need to hear from Peter Hamilton, a forum member

and author of books on Doisneau.

 

Are you out there, Peter?

I do think quite a few of Doisneau's frames were staged. Looking through a book of his photos, the same man appears in quite a few of them. There are no doubt some that were not staged; such as his photo of the topless woman and the man in the suit.. not sure what it's really called; unless he staged motion blur too? And his other famous kiss photo Le Baiser de L'opera was I am pretty sure pure street photography. Much of Doisneau's work was commercial so we can excuse a bit of staging. I even enjoy his car advertisments!

I think there is actually a grey area between the decisive moment and the staged shot. Bert Hardy (of Picture Post fame) also staged some shots, but was by all accounts fantastic at getting on with people so that his staged shots were also natural, and he caught the moment to the nanosecond. The humanity of his photography shines through, whereas HCB seems to have approached his subjects like a thrush nabbing a snail. I love them both, of course, and Doisneau too.

 

There's a famous Doisneau shot of two athletic scruffy boys walking on their hands in front of a pair of foppish twins, who stand arm in arm. Does anyone know whether that was posed?

If I thought less of Doisneau because he staged a shot I would most certainly have to think less of myself for being guilty of the same "crime". His images remain beautifully composed visual poems of his subjects and will remain so for years to come. I don't think there will be many rivals in the years to come.

"And his other famous kiss photo Le Baiser de L'opera was I am pretty sure pure street

photography."

 

That was staged. Either way, I think he was a wonderful photographer.

<b><i>---Ever notice the confusion between past and present tense in regard to photos? You show some photos to a guest, and they will ask, "Where are these taken." It is common to phrase this in the present tense, even though the pictures were already taken; they are not now still being taken.</b></i><br>

For what it's worth I think the confusion lies in the tense relating to the existence of the place (Where is this?)or the action of the photographer (Where did you do this?). The place exists in the now but the action exists in the past.

If you look at a photo, painting or poem & like it -- like it.

Paul, all respect, but I don't agree! Surely it depends why you like it? If you like The Kiss for its voyeuristic capture of a private moment held in public because it was so urgent, and you find out later that it was staged, that does affect your perception. If you like it simply as an image of kissing (like one might have an image of hand-shaking), it doesn't. Many paintings of historical events (e.g. Delaroche's Execution of Lady Jane Grey, to snatch an example out of the blue) would have different significance if instead they represented mythical scenes.

"There's a famous Doisneau shot of two athletic scruffy boys walking on their hands in front of a pair of foppish twins, who stand arm in arm. Does anyone know whether that was posed?"<P>

Not posed. His story was that he saw the kids coming down the street on their hands (showing off to the other kids) and waited for them.<P>

I think his most famous image is not "The Kiss," but the pictures appearing in Life of the art gallery window where the wives are looking at something and the men are all sneaking a peek at the painting of the woman with her bare arss hanging out.

Thanks for clearing that up, Bill - I've wondered for a long long time!

 

The art shop photos were not posed but the situation was certainly contrived.

"The Kiss' is certainly Doisneau's best selling image which is why it ended up in court.

What is less pure, a "staged" photograph (viewing a contrivance), or an "edited" photograph (viewing only what the photographer wants you to view)? If in both cases you're only viewing what the photographer wants you to view, then what is the difference in truth?

Bill, I think that is so cool that you got to witness The Man in action.

>>>If in both cases you're only viewing what the photographer wants you to view, then what

is the difference in truth?<<<

 

It's very much like performing in a live play or in front of movie camera. With a shoot, you

can do a 100 takes on the same scene/dialogue but in a live play, you get one shot to

make it.

Tony,I think so, too.<P>It was so strange -- there are 5 Gillion people on this planet, I had never seen any pictures of him, and he looked nothing like the one description that I'd read ("looks like a Marsaille banker") and yet picked him out of a crowd just by seeing his Leica appear from nowhere and completely disappear within less time than it has taken to write about it. I knew instantly who it was, but doubts persisted for years (his silver M3 was not covered in black tape as I'd always heard, but he was using a VIDOOM finder), until I finally saw some recent photographs of him. I managed to follow him around the streets of London for an hour or more, but knowing how he resented being photographed I took only this one picture through a fence.<P>Incidentally, the next week I spotted Gordon Parks in Paris (elegantly dressed and shooting a Leicaflex), but he didn't seem like the kind of guy whom I should try to follow around. HC-B just seemed to blend in with the crowds, while Parks clearly stood apart from them.