"Made in Germany" vs "Made in Japan" stereotypes

Perhaps we should remember the history of Japanese industry, how it got that way. Japanese industry basically started rebuilding after WW2 by copying everything in sight. Where did Canon and Nikon get the designs for their rangefinder cameras, by stripping Leicas down and measuring the parts. However, they did not yet have the manufacturing techniques to properly produce a comparable product. The first importers of Japanese goods, people like Russ Mack and Fred Deeley were taking huge chances when they contracted to import and sell Japanese goods here in North America. Most of what the Japenese produced was junk, but it was a start.

 

Now I see China is doing the same thing - witness the copy of Luigi's Italian leather camera cases being sold on eBay, also the Chinese mirror lenses copied directly from Japanese products. Probably a large number of the items sold here from China are from designs stolen from domestic and other manufacturers.

 

The world will probably be better off when China reaches a level of economic prosperity which the rest of us enjoy. But that doesn't make their products any better, nor their industry more honest. They are not only the new Japan, but they are even copying Japan's history in design. Maybe someday China will produce goods of comparable quality, but not today.

It bugs me that my Nikon D300 is made in Thailand, and the latest Nikon 50/1.4 is made in China. I like it that my F6 is made in Japan. I love it that my M6 and M3 are made in Germany. I like my clothes to have been made in Canada (where I live), and with trepidation I buy made in China toys that have red or green paint (lead?). I know made in India or Bangladesh clothes may well be from child slaves. I inadvertently bought frozen vegetables from the local grocery store that ended up being produced in China (don't we have vegetables locally?). China last year executed it's head of its version of the FDA and I recall reading about cardboard passed off as pork, and baby food that was starving babies to death; and toothpaste with antifreeze ("the label said not to swallow the toothpaste" one official was claimed to have said).

 

Still, I didn't obsess about looking after defects in the D300 (made in Thailand) but had to return the M8 twice for a defective sensor.

Japan didn't only "copy" everything, I think the Asahiflex IIb was the first SLR with instant return mirror... Yashica 35 GSN was the first camera with fully electronic automatic exposure, mine still works well now.

<i>China last year executed it's head of its version of the FDA</i>

<p>Gary, more people died in the US from taking Vioxx than from all the Chinese products. The US should have executed the CEO of Merck Pharmaceuticals, for selling tainted drugs, after having suppressed literature that revealed its shortcomings.

<p>The same could be said for manufacturers of fast food and alcohol and tobacco products, which combined, kill more people than all the other stuff combined, many times over. Our perspective is amazingly biased. Chinese stuff is 99.999% good or great.

Anything inscribed "Made in China" should be changed to "Made in Hurry"

not promoting anything but people may find the book 'The World is Flat' by the Pulitzer Prize writer Thomas L Friedman to be of interest. It covers alot of the topics that have been put back and forth on this thread about China, Japan, India etc and where things are going in the future...first published in 2005 and still very relevant...

"Chinese stuff is 99.999% good or great"

 

i will not trade my Mercedes for one of their guy-pulling-a-biggy-mobiles.

Vic, C'mon. While I agree American CEO's should be held accountable (althought beheadings may be a bit extreme), you can't put UST or Anheuser Busch in the same league. People who buy booze and tobacco KNOW the risks. Babbies chewing on toys don't know there's lead on them, and I certainly didn't know I was swallowing cement mix with my vitamins.

 

You've gotta look at the numbers. And I hate to generalize, but look at prodcut failure rates, and instances of core materials being substituted. The numbers back up the notion that one must be more cautious with Chinese made goods.

 

Bottom line, if Canon or Voightlander ever move prodcution to China, I'll have to consider jumping brands to someone who builds in Japan.

Bob, American CEOs of large corporations at one time had their pay based on performance, in the 60s and 70s average compensation was 30-40 times the pay of the average worker in the co., Now the rate is 350 times the average , and performance and merit dont seem to matter. Perhaps the Chinese method of stark fear for ones life as and incentive has some merit! Seriously some sort of shakedown is coming, maybe we will see a return to quality and reduce our dependence on foreign products shoddily and even dangerously made. Leica is one company among few others unfortunately that relies on high standards, and are successful doing so.

Sounds a bit like the old Leica Canada vs. Leica Germany debate. Charles is

right. It depends upon what price level they are aiming at.

 

My Mamiya 6 has excellent lenses, but it is a relatively weak systyem

mechanically compared to the Leica M or the Alpa. On the other hand, it sold

for quite a bit less, notwithstanding the larger size (cf Leica). My Fuji GSW

690 has a wonderful lens but an only so-so body construction. I care not, it

gives great quality 6x9cm images on 120 film, better than my super

constructed Leica M!

 

All this talk about quality is like asking a landscape painter which paintbrush

mark he uses.

Japan is the "most intensely focused and "anal" place I've ever seen in my days. " So living one year in Japan makes you a qualified Freudian critic? Surely you could find some adjective less suggestive than "anal," no? You surely know how it evokes both clinical and scatalogical connotations. I lived and worked in Japan for 8 years and my in-laws are Japanese. I find the Japanese no more or less "anal" than other cultures or nationalities, or more accurately individuals. Sorry to be critical, but I think one should be more sensitive when using such terms in stereotyping nations or ethnic groups.

I toured the Toyota factory in Nagoya a few years ago and was struck by the way the assembly line moved so rapidly, where there was no wasted steps or motion by the workers, and a constant barrage of messages to them via speakers throughout the plant reminding them of how wonderful it was to work there, (which it was compared to other industrial plants i was told) This work ethic reminds me of how industries operated in the 30s in Canada and the US. Fortunately, we moved away from this to a more humanistic approach, albeit rapidly disappearing with globalization. Lets hope Leitz continues to manufacture r/f cameras for the foreseeable future, true gems in a sea mass produced plastic.

Here is a virtual Plant Tour for the BMW plant in Munich Germany....

 

http://www.bmw-plant-munich.com/lowband/com/en/produktion/vpt/content_vpt.html

 

Just wait for it to zoom in to the factory then click on buildings for the 'tours'. Turn the volume on.

Here's a challenge for all you 19th Century jingoistic colonialist thinkers. Go through your mansions, and discard everything that's made in China. Then, go for a few months without buying anythind made in China. Your choices will rapidly dwindle to 89 varieties of toilet paper, and fecal-infested hamburger meat. While you're rejoicing at your not-made-in-China lifestyle, read "Fast Food Nation." And your Mercedes Benz won't function either, for some components are made in China.

Not my 85 Mercedes 300 SD, the most reliable car ever made, the Leica of automobiles. Ive been to China , their cars are junk, but the Japanese cars were at first too, so its only a matter of tim before they make good ones.

>Not my 85 Mercedes 300 SD, the most reliable car ever made, the Leica of automobiles

 

Just goes to show how much M-B reliability can come down in 23 years or less. http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=36799

Corporations outsource their production to China and elsewhere to save a few bucks at the expense of quality control. When I buy a product with a brand name on it I expect that brand to represent a certain quality regardless of origin. Those Chinese toy factories work off the specs given to them by Mattel and you don't think Mattel got to inspect the prototypes, did batch inspections until okaying the orders? It is just shameless exploitation of cheap labor and not other reason why these companies are there. If a corporation tells the Chinese factory to build a camera for $5 they will build a $5 camera so don't blame the vendor.

My 2 Yen / euro cents .... As a German living more than 4 years in Japan, from my experience Japanese products are better regarding included features for a low price (cars, cameras, cell-phones, TV etc etc) but not made for a long live. And believe it or not, Leicas and Mercedes-Benz have still a very high prestige in Japan for their durability.

 

On the other hand, the shutter of my - German hand-made, (M)echanical (P)erfecion - Leica had to be replaced after only two years (on warranty) and was serviced by Leica Japan. The camera came back with a new shutter, worked like a charm but now a piece of the top-cover sealing came out. I had to sent it in for a second time to Leica Japan...

>Leicas and Mercedes-Benz have still a very high prestige in Japan for their durability.

 

Highly regarded, yes, but not for durability reasons. Like most everyone else, the Japanese simply love expensive imports.

Read the following dialogue and answer the multiple choice:

<p><i>

Young Doc: No wonder this circuit failed. It says "Made in Japan".<br>

Marty McFly: What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.<br>

Young Doc: Unbelievable.<br>

</i><p>

 

Are Young Doc and Marty McFly talking about: <br>

<ol>

<li>stereotypes?</li>

<li>shifting perceptions over time?</li>

<li>different things altogether?</li>

<li>all of the above?</li>

<li>none of the above?</li>

</ol>

Porsche, Audi, Mercedes etc being built in germany?! So what about them having factories in China to produce parts for their cars?

 

Come on guys, broad statements like that are unrealistic, we live in a world where most of the stuff is built from parts that get outsourced to a boatload of different countries! Maybe the label should read 'assembled in' whatever country!

 

When you buy a Dodge, or chevrolet, do you really believe that EVERYTHING on these cars is made in the US (or any one single country for that matter)?

also, reread the original posters rant, he clearly says that it used to be that german (and others) things were better, but nowadays these stereotypes are no longer valid!

 

All your answers about how wrong he is talk about stuff thats more than 20 years old, so hows that for confirmation of his premise?

@Ewan.

 

Point well taken. And remember that movie is from the mid eighties!

...... and a large part of the M6s (maybe earlier too, maybe still the MPs too) are made in Portugal, with final assembly and inspection in Solms....

 

..and this doesn't even scratch the surface for "Swiss" watches where 50% of the value of the components have to be Swiss...

Well, there is no uber engineering these days. The myth of German superiority really arises out of the days when Leica's and all camera's were the machinist. German excellence in that area arose out of and persists in certain areas today because of the rigid and excellent apprentice and guild system that results in high level machinist.

But camera technology and manufacturing no longer is based on the machinist skill as it was years ago, so its kinda bull now.

 

As far as Cindy Sherman being 10 x the artist of HCB, that's all subjective, isn't it. Cindy Sherman is certainly an important artist.

Was HCB a mere photographer? Not sure bout that.