Build me a beginner Package Please?

Hey all! I'm new to DSLR and am considering a Canon Digital Rebel XTi. I've

been reading a lot on the web and especially liked the article on photo.net

about building a DSLR system

http://www.photo.net/equipment/building-a-digital-slr-system/

 

In the article Philip Greenspun wrote he suggests getting the XTi and a Sigma

30mm f/1.4 for Canon to begin with. What do you'll think about that? He says

the kit lenses are pretty much crap (my words not his), and that it's best to

begin with a fixed lens.

 

I am looking for a camera to begin a new hobby and if I enjoy as much as I think

I will, expand into the professional market someday (several years away). I

have about $1000.00 to spend so I'm asking you folks for your help - can you

direct me in my new mid-life venture?

 

Thanks and I look forward to your comments.

 

Stephanie

Get an XTi with the kitlens. Eventually take the new kitlens (the EFS 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS) rather than the older one (the one without IS).

Yes the XTi is a very nice camera and I would highly suggest going after this camera over

a more expensive one. I started with the old 300d rebel that I used professionally for 3

years. A lens and flash is where the difference really comes in on a SLR camera.

 

Do not get the kit lens. its a waste. you may as well buy a point and click if you get a good

camera and a cheap lens.

 

for lenses consider the following.

1. Canon 50 1.8 ( its about 70 bucks on ebay and is cheap but takes great shots for the $$

)

2. Get the upgraded lens from the kit I think its around 200 I believe it has IS too.

3. Get a tamron either 17 to 50 or 28 to 75 these are around 400 but take shots

comparable to an Canon L lens

 

also consider a external flash, I would stick with a Canon preferably the 580 if you can

afford that. this is where an SLR shines and really without it using a flash is not

recommended.

 

If i was going to spend 1000 i would get the xti to start which i believe is around 500 on

amazon. the 580 ex2 which is around 350 and either the 50 1.8 for 70 or the Canon I

forget which one but its the 17 to 50 ish that is around 200.

Stephanie, I like the idea of someone new getting into a system; Canon or Nikon. I use the Canon system. Others may recommend other camera systems (Olympus, Sony Pentax) but these two are the largest and most used. The Canon XTi is the entry level of the Canon DSLRs but it is a camera rich in functionality that you can learn and grow on and may be all the camera most people ever need. A good recommendation above is to get the camera body and buy seperately the 18-55mm IS zoom lens. This gives you a little better image quality than the basic kit lens in several ways including the IS image stabilization that will contribute to sharper pictures. Use this setup for a while and wait until later next year to get any other lenses. You will have a better idea what you may decide what you want. Also Canon has issued a new 55-250mm IS zoom that is not yet available in this country but probably will be sometime soon next year. Main thing is to get a camera and start making pictures, learning and developing concept formation about photography. And you will have the pictures for memories. Good luck!

i would get the new kitlens the EFS 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS it is very sharp lens and it cost 200usd .

I think Canon is starting to realize that people will not buy these crap kit lenses. I just got a

40D and I did take the kit lens which is the 28 to 135 which lists around 400. In the kit I

ended up only paying 100.

Hi Stephanie,

 

<a href=http://www.canogacamera.com/Canon-EOS-Digital-Rebel-XTi-Camera.aspx?CategoryID=7179>Canoga Camera</a>

has a good choice of packages at good prices.

 

They are a reputable dealer.

 

Mike

Get the xti, but for the lens get a 28-135mm f/4. You can find them online for about $200 of $300 (Amazon). Also check out sima4less.com. I find lots of lenses there. Cannon, Tamron and Sigma. Sigma makes some good glass that is comporable to the Canons. I also agree with the flash suggestion. A 430 or a 580. Good luck!

Easy: EOS body + kit zoom with <abbr title="Image Stabilization">IS</abbr> (EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS) + EF 50mm f/1.8 prime + Speedlite 380EX or 420EX flash unit.

So far I like Bueh's idea the best.

 

Buy it all from bhphotovideo.com You won't do any better on the combination of price and service.

 

The article is perhaps a little overzealous in stating that you should avoid a zoom innitially. Not having some flexibility could be frustrating for you. But I agree you don't want too many lenses either. That would complicate things. The 18-55 f3.5=-5.6IS is perfect to start. And the 50mm f1.8 would be your portrait and low light lens. That's it for now. later you can add lenses and decide if you want wider or longer based on your experience. A useful way to do this is keep track of how often you shoot all the way to the wide end versus the long end.

 

 

Probably the most useful accessory I would ad is a good book or video on photography. There's much to learn and even more so with digital work flow.

 

Have fun.

Don't forget to figure in the costs for CF memory cards as well as a CF card reader for more versatility. Also an inexpensive carry case is a good idea. (I've bought discontinued LowePro cases at a local Ritz for $10 that will hold the XT/XTi.)

 

As good or as bad as the kit lens may be, as a beginner I think it will be fine for you to start with. Try getting the XTi with the 18-55 IS version if possible. (Not sure if that's and option yet.)

 

Also, as mentioned, the 50mm F1.8 lens is cheap and you could consider addiing it for indoor low lighting...

 

-Mario

I just bought an XTi, so the advice I'm giving you is what I'm actually doing myself. The best system to start with would be: XTi($520); Canon 18-55mm IS ($175); Canon Speedlite 420EX or 430EX, ~$160 used and $230 new, respectively; Sandisk 2GB Ultra II Compact Flash card ($35); Canon EW-60C Lens Hood ($17); Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson ($17); a 58mm UV lens filter ($20). You should also consider the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens for $75. On the XTi this will be a portrait lens and having the large aperture will allow you to experiment with depth of field. You could also consider getting the Canon 75-300 F4-5.6 III USM lens ($150 used). This isn't a great lens but it will allow you to experiment with a telephoto lens.

 

I wouldn't get the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 or any other prime lens(other than the 50mm f/1.8) right now. Why? First, all the primes will be more expensive than the 18-55mm IS. Second, getting any reasonably priced prime lens will mean you won't have a true wide angle lens(the widest lens < $400 is the Canon 24mm f/2.8). Losing the wide angle capability means you wouldn't be able to make some landscape shots as well as architecture shots. I'm assuming you don't have a particular favorite subject yet, so you'll want to try all sorts of things.

 

The core of this system, the XTi, 18-55mm IS and the flash will be more than enough for you to play with and learn about photography. Get excited; the XTi is a very nice camera and will make you want to take pictures all the time.

I'd go with the XTi body, Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, and Canon 50mm f/1.8 which will just squeak in at about $1000 from B & H.

Stephanie

 

I'll go against the trend and recommend that you do actually stick with the XTi and the 30mm Sigma prime.

 

Why is that? Simple: for a beginner learner, less is more.

 

It's about keeping things simple and leaving you all the options for learning.

 

The 30mm prime will allow you to take a picture in almost any situation, but at the same time it will challenge you to think and work about your picture, not just point the camera at it.

 

The XTi with the kit lens is nothing more than a glorified point-and-shoot camera. Adding more lenses and more gear and won't get you learning, you'll just worry about your gear.

 

So stick to the simple things first, and then see where you want to go.

I bought the XTi with the Sigma 30/1.4 about a year ago. The Sigma 30/1.4 is a GREAT lens, but not something I'd like to start with. I go against everyone's suggestion for the 50/1.8 because I borrowed my friend's and was not happy with the non-USM motor. I rather spend the extra money for the 50/1.4 that does that the USM for faster focusing.

 

Another reason for not going to the Sigma is because it's built for crop sensor bodies. Won't work if you eventually go to a full-frame body.

 

I'd second the external 430EX flash as well.

 

XTI (body only) + 50/1.4 + 430EX = $1059 from bhphotovideo.com

I concur with the recommendation for the Rebel XTI and the 18-55 IS lens (not the 18-55 without image stabilization). There's no need for an external flash or other lenses to start, though I don't think it would do you great harm to get a 50/1.8 if you really want one. For stuff on composition and photographic principles, either get a good introductory book (I'm sure that's been discussed here, I'm drawing a blank for a recommendation, but you can find threads with a search--Anything by Freeman Patterson oriented to beginners should be good) or at the least thoroughly go through a website with good introductory material. The articles on composition and digital basics at luminous-landscape.com are probably a good start.

 

One thing that may help you understand the widely diverging opinions of "kit lens" is that Canon originally issued the 18-55 (without IS) at a very low price. It wasn't a very good lens, though I think it was fairly decent for the money. Canon recently introduced a version of the 18-55 with image stabilization included, and it is quite a respectably good lens by most accounts. I suspect Phil wrote his article before the new version came out.

Stephanie:

 

Daniel D. wrote:

 

The XTi with the kit lens is nothing more than a glorified point-and-shoot camera.

 

I wonder how many people who make that comment (and I know it's used quite often) actually own that combination of camera and kit lens and how many compare the photos they took with it to the photos they used to take with a good to very good point and shoot camera. Try it. I have. There is no comparison. It is a wonderful beginner combo. Of course, with the reviews out on the IS version of the kit lens for not much more money perhaps that's a better way to go.

 

Although I have several lenses (including a fine prime,Canon 85mm 1.8), I have taken and I have seen many, many excellent photos taken with the standard Canon kit lens 18-55 non-IS. Used in combination with the Canon Xti, it is in an entireley different class than most point and shoots. The thing is that, recently, with face detection technology and other upgrades to point and shoots, they are getting closer but there is still a world of difference once you learn how to use an SLR.

 

The other thing to remember is that SLRs are not for everone. They require patience and offer a steep learning curve - neither of which is necessary in a point and shoot. But for the beginner, I do not recommend spending even $1,000 until you are sure that the SLR world is for you. That being the case, a $650 Xti and a $175 18-55 IS (or less for the standard version) is a great start.

Hi Stephanie

 

Based on the fact that it's a good idea to spend as much of your budget as possible on lenses, this is what I'd get (all prices from B&H):

 

Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT (predecessor to XTi, almost as good) $395 with $100 rebate: $295

 

Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS (make sure you get the new IS version): $175

 

Canon EF 28mm F1.8 USM (great low-light lens, gives 45mm field-of-view on Rebel XT, can be used on full-frame if you upgrade in the future): $399

 

2 x 4GB Sandisk CF memory cards: $120

 

Total: $990

 

That gives you a very versatile kit capable of taking superb images. Obviously it lacks a telephoto lens, but you can't have it all for $1K.

 

If you already know that you like longer focal lengths, perhaps you could stretch your budget by $400 or so dollars to include the new EF-S 55-250mm when it comes out. Or, you could ditch the EF 28mm F1.8 in favour of the 55-250mm or the EF 70-300mm IS. However, I would suggest you don't, because then you'll miss out on the joys of the low-light and shallow depth of field photography that the 28mm 'fast' F1.8 max-aperture allows.

 

Of course, if you are happy to buy everything used on eBay, your $1K will stretch a lot further. You need to be smart, careful and patient, but the rewards are there.

 

Hope all that makes sense!

 

P.S Buy a book, shoot in RAW (not JPEGS), get Photoshop Elements and learn basic image editing techniques. I hope you have a fairly decent computer!

Also include some basic accessories:

 

1. Basic tripod, for those situations where you have a legitimate

reason to be concerned about camera shake, or where you want to use a long shutter & exposure time.

 

2. Lens cleaning napkins. You can get pre-moistened Zeiss Lens Cleaning napkins at Walmart, 50 per box, for about $3. They do a fine job for cleaning the front lens surface (after you have given it a light blowing & brushing with the normal rubber-blower and camel-hair brush). You can also use them to clean the outside of your camera, lenses, and flashes.

 

3. Lens hood(s) to fit your lens. These block side light and glare, and can prevent annoying sun-flares. And by blocking side-glare, more of the true colors of your suject will come through.

 

3. Lens filters.

 

4. Camera neck strap. So that you dont drop that new camera in your

eagerness. :^)

 

5. Lens cover caps for all the lens.

 

6. A DLSR carrying case. To hold, pad, and protect your investment.

Walmart carries a nice line of cases made by C-ICON. They have

a fair amount of padding, and quality workmanship, for a pretty

reasonable price.

 

7. Extra re-chargeable batteries that fit the new camera.

 

8. Battery charger that is compatible with the new batteries.

 

9. Hurricane type rubber-blower, nice soft camel hair brush.

To help keep the camera, lens, and equipment clean.

 

10. Picture editing software for the computer.

Irfanview is a freeware program that can be downloaded, installed

and used till you get some pro-grade software.

 

11. CD & DVD disks to back up your picture files. The CD will hold

about 720 Mbytes, and the DVD will hold about 4+ GB. Use these

to make weekly backups of your user data.

 

12. A couple of inexpensive USB thumb-drive memory sticks. These plug

into the USB port and emulate an extra disk drive. Use these for

immediate short-term temporary backups of the project that is

being worked on that day.

 

13. An extra memory card (if your camera will accept it).

2GB size will provide mucho memory space to take LOTS of pictures.

 

14. Memory card reader/uploader.

Attach this to the computer, and then insert the mem card from the

camera. Then you easily access the picture files, and copy them

to local project folders on the local hard drive. If you get one,

make sure its the correct slot type for the card type you use.

 

15. One of these $2 lined notebooks & a pencil.

So you can take notes & record pertinent details.

 

Oh well, looks like we've spent more than your $1000... 8^)

Yeah. . the XTi with a 30/1.4 is great for a photography student.

 

But terrible if you want to go to a party and take happy pics. You don't want a camera with a single prime on xmas morning. PUHLEASE. It will frustrate the heck out of you because you will miss TONS of shots when shooting casually.

 

Look, the 18-55/IS is a good all around starter lens. Get one. The 28-135/IS is an awesome lens -> But too long as a "single lens" solution on a XTi.

 

Also. . buy a flash. The 430EX is fine. It will help you take better photos. .and will teach you much about light.

 

As for "learning about photography"; a single prime is ok -> but a pair of primes is better. Go for the 30/1.4 with a 50/1.8. If you were to get ONE prime. . that should be the 50/1.8. That is a more useful focal length for portraits.

Here is why a 400D with an 18-55 is a glorified point and shoot: low light capabilities. Or, I mean, the lack of. ISO1600 and wide open on the old 18-55 is the only exposure option in most indoor settings, unless you want to blast the built-in flash in someone's face. Add a much faster lens and a speedlite, and you have a camera that allows you to think, if you so wish.

Can't hurt to have the kit lens on hand, considering how cheap it is, and with it's decent wide coverage. However, in my opinion everyone who is serious should start with ONE fixed lens. It really drives home the important technique and will train you in visualization and work ethic in a way that you will only get with a zoom if you are incredibly well-supervised, intelligent, and attentive. I agree with Philip. A fast normal lens will do you a lot of good if you are really serious about learning. If you are lazy, impatient, etc., just get an advanced point and shoot that will allow manual control to allow at least some degree of versatility. I would go for the Canon 28 instead of the Sigma. It is faster, closer to "normal", and will work on any future EOS body you should purchase. Don't forget to shoot film too (I would use transparency aka slide film), so you can physically see what light does to an actual piece of silver. Same reason you write with crayons before you type on a keyboard.

 

Keith

Sorry - the Canon is NOT faster. When wide open, it lets in 66% less light than the Sigma. f/1.8 is plenty fast, however, and I feel that the Canon's other advantages outweigh the 2/3-stop difference.

 

keith

Best camera for the money has got to be Pentax K10D - a camera you can actually use outdoors even if it starts to drizzle with rain a bit! And it's got built in image stabilisation. And there's a good range of top quality Pentax lenses. Pentax are every bit as good - unless you really need the lenses that cost several thousand dollars from Canon and Nikon - but they're not so common as Canon and Nikon.

 

And what's all this snobby bollocks knocking the kit lenses? 18-55mm is a nice range of focal length and gives a lot more flexibility in picture composition and allows a new user to experiment more. And there is nothing wrong with the image quality either. There are numerous situations where it isn't feasible to move to a different spot to frame something properly with a prime. when learning, I think you need the flexibility to experiment with different focal lengths for different situations - if you have JUST a 30mm lens or JUST a 50mm lens then you'll find yourself in situations where you can't get far enough away from the subject - like if you want to take a picture of a building, or a person who is close to you, or fit a whole heap of a view in one image. And in other situations you'll find you can't get close enough is you have JUST a 30mm lens - like those lovely animals behind the bars across the other side of the pen in a zoo, or when you're stuck in the car in a traffic jam and want to take a picture of the windmill on the hill and so on. The kit lens will enable you to get a good idea of the sort of photos you like to take, and THEN you can decide if you want to get a faster (larger aperture for lower light) short prime (fixed focal length lens), or a faster long prime, or a higher quality zoom lens.

 

There's certainly a lot to be said for having a fixed focal length lens for some aspects of learning, and you can pick up a 50/1.8 or similar cheap enough, but it's by no means essential or a prerequisite to learning. Having said that, when I first started using SLRs in my teens, all I have was a 50mm prime on my Zenit E, and it never did me any harm. And all I had was a 50mm prime on my Olympus OM1 - but I found that frustrating when taking pictures in New York and really wished for something wider! By having the kit zoom lens you have more flexibility.

I went for over a year with only a 24 and 50 prime on the wide end (I had a zoom for longer reach). On the wide end, foot zooming is quite effective to get the composition I wanted. I found I could keep one lens in my pocket -> and lens swaps could be quite quick.

 

But if I had only ONE prime. . .I would have missed TONS of shots.

 

Ultimately, I bought a 35 prime. I then found that I was still keeping one prime in the pocket (i.e., on a given day I was swapping between 24 and 35; or 35 and 50). It was nice. (until I finally migrated to 4L zooms. . .and I no longer use the wide primes)