Thoughts on possible danger in photographing White-tailed bucks in rutting season

Air horn <----- hurts *your* ears too. Check Db level on the unit and see if it's within safe range for human hearing damage.

I never had any type of incident with mule deer in all the years I hiked through the back country of San Diego, where I saw them closeup on every visit (once saw a herd of 80 animals shoulder to shoulder, right across the trail). It was only after I moved north that I realized there had been somewhat more risk from mountain lions than I had previously imagined. But with deer\elk\moose, common sense and respect for wildlife should keep a person reasonably safe. -g-

"<I>But with deer\elk\moose, common sense and respect for wildlife should keep a person reasonably safe.</I>"

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Alaskan moose:

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The proper scientific name is <I>Alces alces gigas</I> but it might as well be <I>Chasus upatree fastus</I>.

It'd be safer to photograph white bucks.

Douglas, What a great shot!

I have some experience with agressive dogs. Again, these are dogs who are unafraid of humans. A cattle prod.. one of the long ones.. is an excellant deterrant. Dog and human are left undamaged by the experience.

 

Usually you never get to use the thing as the sight of the "stick" alone often works. Cattle prods are light weight and can be carried on your belt (they are designed for this).

 

If you get one be sure to use the sure shock batteries.. regular C batteries or AA batteries are useless unless the device is labeled for them.

Thanks Nancy. I wonder if the marine horn would also work on them?

LJ Kirk

The air horn is NOT safe IF you hold it point it at someone's head and they are not for use indoors. That is the point when using on an animal. It scares them and makes them stop to see what kind of creature could do that, or jump back.

 

My friend who recommended I buy one told me if you are being attacked by a bear (or other animal) and are able to do so before being seriously injured, stick it right in their ear and let off a blast. It will rupture their eardrum and disable their equilibrium.

 

Not for the faint of heart, but at that point we are not in the proverbial Kansas anymore Dorothy.

I carry a small air horn can that I got at the local Walmart, I also carry bear grade pepper spray, but then again I often hike or hunt in bear country and I also carry pop tarts.

 

Word of caution, don't shake the air horn can, it won't work properly.

2nd word of Caution, both air and pepper spray have a shelf life.

 

Never had any trouble with bear, deer, or coyotes. Although I did have to share my pop tarts one time.

Hey Jeff, both pepper spray and a horn work well. The horn is what I would recommend though, spray you have to pay attention to wind and all that. Also a good tip is a tripod. Keep it between you and the animal and it tends to give a break to the animal sensing there is something still between you two. I am not saying its 100% effective, but it seems to work for me. You don't need a huge marine horn to carry with you, many sporting goods stores carry little canisters that will easily fit into your pockets. Good luck!

Leonard, Don, and Adam, Thanks very much for the additional information, much of it I

find very useful and interesting. I do plan to carry at least the marine air horn. Bears are

still pretty rare around here, although there seem to be occasional sitings in recent years-

incidents where they get into trash containers, or under someone's porch from time to

time (Black bears). Good to know that the air and pepper have a shelf life! Thanks Adam,

yes it was always in my mind that if anything happened I would actually go so far as to try

to use my tripod as a weopon, but along with envisioning that "worst case scenario", came

the thought of destroying whatever equipment was attached to it-ouch! I doubt there

would be time or presence of mind to remove the equipment; I'm hoping it never gets to

that point, that I'll be able to back away.

 

 

I think I should give an update as to what has transpired since my last post-it may relate

to what I'm experiencing or, perhaps not. As mentioned, this is an area that has

experienced large increases in human population over the years, and I'm photographing in

the part that is still rural. Late yesterday afternoon as I drove slowly on a tertiary road near

the area, a medium-small, spike buck crossed right in front of me. He continued on his

way, head down, kind of shuffling along, not in a very straight line- correct me if I'm

wrong, but I think this is classic rutting season behavior. There were other vehicles

stopped to watch him, but he was pretty much in his own world.

 

 

Several minutes later, I had hiked a short distance away from the road, into a more

isolated area. My plan was to hike around the area, as much for excersise, as for

photography, although I had mounted my camera on the tripod. I'd only traveled about

120 feet, whereby I was looking at a large four point buck right in the trail about another

100 feet ahead, who had

doubtless spotted me first. I really was a bit surprised to see one so soon. I was then a bit

alarmed as he gave no sign of fleeing, instead taking a few steps towards me. I stopped,

carefully took a couple of snaps, and backed off. When I looked back, he was still there,

watching me. I've been around deer long enough to know when they are afraid, and I don't

think he had much fear. I walked about one-third of the way back towards where I had

come, set up to

take more pics, when a fawn appeared, and then more deer (but no more bucks). The fawn

started quickly (seemed to be playful!) towards me, along with some others. I was worried

that the buck may

follow him, so I shouted something, and backed up some more. They paused a little, but

showed little of their customary level of caution. At this point, I walked back three-

quarters of the way that I had come, and they pretty much went about their deer business,

moving about without coming my way.

 

 

The buck was putting his snout up in the air, sniffing about, and then chasing the mature

does, who didn't seem very interested in his amorous advances (I watched all of this

through my telephoto, lest someone think I was too close). They all eventually moved on,

sort of parallel to me, in what I think is their normal pattern. The buck stayed put, though.

The others had almost crested a hill, still fairly close by. At this point, a man suddenly

appeared from the other side of the hill. He appeared very casually dressed, jacket open,

hatless, and his hair was blowing around in the wind. There was something in his hand,

maybe a camcorder, I couldn't tell. His appearance and demeanor seemed strange to me-it

seemed that he was trying to mingle or interract with the deer. I took a couple of shots of

this, but then he left in the same strange manner. The deer seemed not at all afraid of

him; the buck merely stared at him. While I'm virtually sure the guy saw me, he didn't

seem to make eye contact with me, or even with the deer; he just held out this thing in his

hand, while walking around for a minute or two, then left. Later, while reflecting on this, I

remember seeing someone doing something similar when I visited this area last year, but I

observed this from a greater distance at that time- in hind sight, I think that it could very

possibly have been the same person. I kept my distance and stayed for about twenty

minutes. The buck stayed pretty much where he was, while the others moved on, and

eventually disappeared. Another mature deer emerged from the woods. The buck

approached it, and at first I thought that this was another doe that he was after. It was

actually another buck, and he ran away with the first buck in pursuit, and I watched as they

raced away in the same direction as the others.

 

 

While it's impossible for me to draw a definite conclusion, the possibility that these deer

have been "acclimated" to humans, now seems more possible. I've actually had my full of

deer photography even in spite of any "fear factor", but plan to carry the marine air horn

on future hikes. I would really like to talk to that guy who I've seen, to see what he is

actually doing, but so far have been unable to. Because this seems to be the height of the

rut, I'm thinking of not even hiking this area for a few weeks. It would be great to hear

more from you guys, and anyone else that is experienced.

 

 

 

If I had to guess, you're looking at two 1.5 year old bucks that basically equate to teenage

in somewhat relative terms. Sexually mature, but because of whitetail social conditions,

painted out of the breeding picture. Many people make the mistake of thinking there is a

corelation between age and antler points. When looking a a deer herd it helps to

understand age structure and the role it plays. Some brief comments on just bucks. At .5

years old a buck it what's called a "button buck" it has no visible antlers, just a slight

bump on it's pedicles. In the field a button buck appears as a doe. So when you see a

maturnal group of does as many as 30% can actually be immature bucks.

 

A bucks 1st set of antlers can range from spikes to 8 points and start to grow at roughly 1

year. There are many variables that

influence antler development. So many it takes a bit of studying of the body to better age

deer and one still can be fooled. When a buck is born is one influence. Does come into

estrus every 28 days roughly starting in Oct. until January. She will come into estrus every

28 days until she is successfully impregnated. Whitetail gestation being roughly 200 days,

you can see how fawns can be dropped over a period of months and how the maturity can

vary among deer of the same year class.

 

OK, back to the spike and 4 point, which are about guaranteed to be in the same year

class. They are virtually precluded from breeding in a healthy deer herd, because of the

social structure. Only the dominant buck is allowed to breed and the lessor bucks are

relegated to bouncing around and being kicked off his range as does come into estrus.

These guys were faux-tending, hanging around near the does in hopes, only to have their

egos crushed be the mature buck as they arrive at the opportune time of reception. They

are masters of time management and use their nose to find the receptive does without

spending excess time with them. The young guys haven't mastered this and sped much

time in hopes...only to get muscled out after investing such an effort.

 

This is a very anti-social time for a mature buck, he doesn't spend time with the boys and

will challange any other bucks at this time. Does, however, will continue in their maternal

group until after the antlers have dropped and the deer form a large herd in mid winter.

The best time of year to study buck behavior is from mid-June until mid-September when

the bucks form a bachelor group. They don't exhibit the breeding behavior, but they do

exhibit the hierarchy of the group and you can get to know the individuals that make up

the bachelor group. They also tend to use the same range while in the bachelor group. But

come Sept, the peace gives way to the call of reproduction and the group breaks up and

the bucks disburse throughout the immediate range.

Hi Brian, Thanks for the interesting information. I've been reading more about deer, and

what you've said makes sense. Especially what you mentioned about the

immature bucks, also about the size of the racks not correlating necessarily with age. But

are the largest bucks, with the largest racks, generally in their prime? (There is a good

food supply here.)

I'm regularly seeing a large, husky buck with a broad, thick 8pt. rack. He is not one of the

seemingly aggressive ones, though.

 

 

Any chance that you had read what I mentioned in my next to last post, about the strange

man that I've seen? Any experience with deer that have gotten used to

people like this? After reflecting on this last incident more, I'm almost certain that this is

the

same guy I've seen before a few times. He goes right out into, or up to a group and seems

to walk among them, all the while holding some dark object in the palm of his hand. (I am

woefully not up to speed on the latest in electronics; am guessing it's a camcorder, but

have no idea for sure.) I really got the impression that this group of deer had no fear of

him, which is strange; even in this no hunting zone, deer generally have their natural

aversion to humans, and raise their tails, and/or snort, run away, etc. at an approaching

human. But these deer seemed pretty much okay with having this guy come into their

midst-that's what bothers me the most. In the incident in western PA, it was a buck that

was raised by humans. There was another very serious incident involving an established

wildlife photographer, George Barnett, and a penned large whitetail buck. From a few

accounts I've read, it seems in the rare incidents when they do attack, these attacks are

quite

sudden and with the intent to kill.

 

Another thing I'm hoping perhaps you can clarify is, in two or three situations bucks were

sniffing about in the air seemingly trying to determine what sort of creature I was. In the

situation in

my first post, only when I finally got to a certain angle from him, did he seem to finally

become

afraid, and retreated into the woods. From what I've read, they have good eyesight. I know

they are aware of me visually in these situations; is it simply a coincidence that he seemed

to flee when he finally got my scent? Most importantly right now, does the aggressiveness

(hormone levels?) gradually diminish from this point in the year, or is it at high levels until,

or through December?

<p>Unless you are having your period, you should be fine.<br /> Animals TO BE concerned about:</p>

<ul>

<li>Cow Moose with Calves</li>

<li>Sow Bear with Cubs</li>

<li>Badgers</li>

<li>I have heard that a Sow Boar can be quite mean when it has piglets with it </li>

</ul>

<p>If you are really, really concerned, take some bear spray. Contrary to the name, it also works on other animals.</p>