MF SLR system recommendation

I'm looking for a used MF SLR system, body and 3 lenses to start with (probably

50, 80 and 150) and few backs. I'd prefer 6x6 or 6x4.5.

My preferences are (not in any order):

Good portability;

High quality optics;

Reliable body and system;

Availability of second hand gear, especially lenses;

Reasonable price (yes, I know, YGWYPF, yet ?).

I don't care for brand names and I'm not looking into auto focus, though I don't

mind it, if all other requirements are met. I'm also not looking for

compatibility with digital backs.

All recommendations and suggestions are welcomed.

Blad, Mamiya, Pentax, Bronica in that order.

Depends on what you mean by reasonable price.

The Pentax doesn't have interchangeable backs. With Hasselblad, it's easier to get what you want when you want it than the others. Less expensive gear tends to get picked over quickly, and there is less of it on the market.

 

Hasselblad is perfectly reliable if you take care of it (periodic factory CLAs).

As for Blad, Mamiya, Pentax, Bronica ? can you please give the pros and cons for each?

 

As for budget, my goal is to get a body, 3 lenses and 2 or 3 backs for under $2,000 ? unless no system will answer all my preferences for that price.

Hmm, periodical factory CLAs are above my head (living in Israel).

As for availably, it seems that there is enough sock of all those brands at KEH.

What do you want to shoot + how?

Mostly ? nature and cityscapes, both hand held and on tripod.

"... it seems that there is enough sock of all those brands at KEH."

 

Is it just me, or have you noticed the stock of used MF gear at KEH shrinking too? I'm guessing lots of amateurs are now picking up MF gear they could only have salivated over years ago.

 

Anyways, I'd go for some versions of the 'Blad or Pentax. Additional film area is the single reason to go MF. 645 just doesn't offer enough real estate over 135 to make all the extra hassle, bulk, and expense worthwhile.

 

Also, consider post-development expenses if you plan to scan. A cheap flatbed will give excellent 8x10 prints from 6x7 film. It's not clear cut 645, especially if the image is cropped at all.

I think you main choice is do you want square or rectangle? I prefer the 6X6 format so there is no rotating the bodies, but it takes getting used too...

 

Depends upon your style. If you plan to be tripod anchored then a Mamiya RB/RZ67 with a rotating back trumps them all IMHO. If you plan to do alot of handheld work, then a 6X6 is the most logical choice.

 

If you decide on square then you will be hard pressed to find something better than the Bronica SQ series. You could fill out all your needs and add a good tripod for $1500+/-.

 

My setup is a Hasselblad 500CM. Even seeem to be comparably priced to Bronica if you do enough shopping for a deal.

 

645 or 6X7... The Bronica ETR series is a nice smallish setup. The GS1 is a fantastic camera for the money.

 

The GS1 is considered a "lightweight" in 6X7 terms but is still rather unwieldy and heavy. Rotate the camera a few times and you will quickly desire a tripod. I would go Mamiya if I were to buy another 6X7. (Actually I would go 4X5 or 8X10 large format... if I were to leave 6X6, but that is another thread)

" 645 just doesn't offer enough real estate over 135 to make all the extra hassle, bulk, and expense worthwhile."

 

Indeed, however 6x6 in many cases would be cropped to rectangular frames, so we are back at square one.

 

As for scans, I have the Epson 4990, which seems to be quite decent, apart from bromide prints I have in mind.

 

" If you plan to be tripod anchored then a Mamiya RB/RZ67"

 

There will be both tripod and hand held.

 

Few good tripods I have already.

 

" Actually I would go 4X5 or 8X10 large format..."

 

I own a 4x5 LF, which is a different animal for different uses. At present I'm looking to ad MF system (on top of other systems I won and use).

Oops, other systems I own and use, of course.

Bronica, Mamiya RZ67. Those are the best bang for buck film systems.

The Pentax 645 is the best of the lot as it is the smallest, lightest, most compact and least expensive, as well as being the most rugged and has excellent lenses. It just doesn't have interchangable backs. So it depends on how important that feature is to you.

Mamiya, Pentax, Blad, Bronica in that order. :)

You can't go wrong with any of them. Everything is a comprimise in one way or another, as I'm sure you know.

 

I like Bronica 645 for a number of reasons. I print on standard sized paper. This is the main feature of 645 because it prints to standard sizes with negligable cropping. Basically, the image on the ground glass is what will print. An ETR series camera with a speedgrip and prism finder is just as easy to handhold as a 35mm SLR. If you plan to shoot with a WLF you are better off going 6x6.

 

Bronica stuff is a fantastic bang for the buck. Let's see... I have two bodies (ETRs and ETRsi), 50 - 75 - 150 mm lenses, WLF, metered prism, two film backs, polaroid back, speedgrip, and doodads galore such as filters, hoods, etc. I think my grand total out of pocket for all of it is about $650 USD.

 

I also shoot 6x6 and it is very convenient not to tilt the camera. Whenever I crop to print on standard paper (not square) it effectively becomes 645. Unless you print square there is zero quality gain over 645 and less frames per roll of film.

 

Horses for courses. To me, removable film backs provide a tremendous advantage.

You can do a few ways. If you go with Hasselblads, but similar for other brands:

 

One is to have KEH or whoever in the US (if you get it in the US) send it to a camera repair guy (eg D Odess for Hasselblads) and have him check it out (reject back to seller if it is a dud, or CLA if it is OK), then ship to you.

 

Other is to ship to you, and you find a camera repair guy to do the CLA in Israel, and there must be guys there that can CLA a Hasselblad.

 

You can do similar for sourcing a kit out of Europe.

 

The Hasselblad is prob the most expensive of the bunch. But w/o the CLA "I think" with good shopping you can get a Blad setup for under the 2,000-USD point. This would be the older 500CM not the newer 501CM or other newer models. I would go for the CF lenses, but you might find good prices on the older C-T* lenses. Stick w a waist level finder. Backs, nothing wrong w the older 12 (aka M12) back, and it should be cheaper than the A12 backs.

 

To CLA all the gear could get expensive, but then you are set for the next 5+ years, and you know the gear is checked out.

 

Before you leap, spend a couple months (yes I said MONTHS) watching eBay and KEH so you get a feel for the prices, as they fluctuate...a LOT.

 

gud luk

Since you already have the advantages of going larger in LF, I would think this should be an easy decision. Why continue to be tethered to a tripod by going the 6X7 route.

 

Don't underestimate the convience of being able to switch to any number of backs/film etc...

 

Don't underestimate the power of the square.

 

I find focusing squares easier. Cropping is a breeze. Composing for square is rather fun.

 

As John mentioned... the Bronicas offer alot of bang for the buck. I heartily endorse them, and I shoot Hasselblad.

"Indeed, however 6x6 in many cases would be cropped to rectangular frames, so we are back at square one."

 

Ahh, yes. You don't have to convince me of that (although some compositions really work well when printed square square.) I use a couple of RB-67's and a Koni-Omega Rapid range finder, all 6x7's.

 

The K-O is really an interesting camera. It's great for the "f8 and be there" school of image making. It's off by a few decades, but stick a (or two or three) fat strobes on the top, and you too can make like Weegee.

What are the differences between the various Bronica models, that is, ETR/ETRS/ETRSI and SQ/SQ-A/SQ-AI?

I wouldn't be discouraged from 645 due to it's small neg size. The negs are 2.7 X's the size of the 35mm frame. Your price of spending $2K is quite high in todays market. You could get a Mamiya or Pentax 645 body with 3 lenses and some film inserts for well under $1K. The Blad & Bronica both use leaf shutters and are better for flash work.

I understand that in Bronica I can choose either 6x6 or 6x4.5 backs. Is that right? Does it hold true for all Bronica models?

"Additional film area is the single reason to go MF. 645 just doesn't offer enough real estate over 135 to make all the extra hassle, bulk, and expense worthwhile."

 

Actually, 645 is a huge improvement over 35mm. The 2.7x area is a much bigger jump than going from 645 to 67.

 

As for brands - I personally prefer cameras with leaf shutters as you get flash sync at all speeds. And the best value, IMHO, is Bronica. The ETRS is very light and inexpensive. You could also consider the GS-1 if you want 67. But the gear is heavier and bulkier. A bit more expensive, too.

Another vote for mamiya RB/RZ

Hasselblad. You can use 6x6 6x45 backs + digital backs.