diffusers and brackets and bounce -- oh, my!

I now have two Pentax AF 540 FGZ strobes; a Bogen-Manfrotto 233B bracket; and a

Demb Flip-It! Pro bounce card + diffuser panels package. I've been doing my book

homework and, equally or more important, I've been practicing, a lot. The bottom

line is: I'm not persuaded that either the Demb devices OR the bracket are worth

the trouble. NOTE: I'm mainly interested in dealing with small weddings and

similar events requiring convenient, portable illumination.

 

If I'm shooting indoors, using the Demb Flip-It! Pro devices (bounce card +

diffuser panels) does produce better results than shooting with the flash

pointed right at the subject. I know how to point the strobe straight up, and

use the Demb Flip-It! bounce card angled toward the subject to push some of the

light forward. But I get even better results if I pull all this clap-trap off

the strobe and bounce the flash off a wall or ceiling, at least when I bounce

well. I've read a lot about the various brands of diffusers and flash modifiers

(Gary Fong, Sto-Fen, etc.). I bought the Demb package because it was relatively

cheap -- but also because I'd read testimonials saying that it was as good as

the competition. I don't have the budget right now to buy and try everything.

But every brand has its fans. I get the impression that nothing is significantly

better than the Demb.

 

I've gotten fairly skeptical about the bracket, too. I know that the traditional

reason for using a bracket has been, to eliminate red-eye, and to get the flash

up high, so the shadows on the walls fall down behind the subjects so they're

out of the photo. But even with the strobe mounted on the camera's hot-shoe,

red-eye seems not to be a problem. And there's an easy way to avoid those

shadows: pull the subjects away from the wall. Bracket might also help bounce

the flash, especially if you had a flash that didn't have both tilt and swivel

capability. But my Pentax AF 540 FGZ does tilt AND swivel very nicely. If I'm

bouncing the flash indoors -- say, pointing the flash up and over my shoulder to

bounce off a corner in the wall-ceiling behind me -- I can't see any significant

difference between having the flash on the bracket and having it mounted on the

camera's hot shoe. As with the Demb modifiers, I bought the Bogen-Manfrotto 233B

because it was cheap but also because it was well reviewed. I understand that

there are technically better brackets. But I don't think my question has

anything to do with the usability of one bracket over another. Flipping the

orientation of the camera, for example, has nothing to do with my question,

which is simply: what's the advantage of a bracket, any bracket?

 

The only potentially big advantage that the bracket really seems to afford is

that it allows me to get two portable flash sources: either (a) the strobe on

the bracket + the camera's built-in flash, or (b) one strobe on the bracket +

one strobe mounted on the camera. I've practiced with (a) and sometimes I feel

like it's worth having that extra bit of light thrown straight at the subject,

perhaps especially if I'm shooting in the daylight outdoors. I haven't practiced

with (b) because one of my strobes is currently languishing in Pentax's repair

facility. It seems to me like having two strobes bouncing light from left and

right HAS to be a plus. On the other hand, at that point, the camera + grip +

bracket + two strobes is going to be quite a contraption to lug around, and

having to adjust the bounce angles of two flash units constantly sounds like a

pain in the neck. And I don't recall ever seeing anybody working like this. So

maybe that's a crazy idea.

 

Anyway, at the moment, I'm inclined to walk into the reception with just the

flash mounted on the camera and bounce, baby, bounce. Bad idea? What do you do?

 

Thanks in advance.

"I'm inclined to walk into the reception with just the flash mounted on the camera and bounce, baby, bounce. Bad idea?" ... there's no right answer here so whatever works for you. I've shot using on-camera flash bounced and had no problems ... is this my preferred method, no.

 

"What do you do?" ... I use a relatively powerful flash (Metz 60 or Quantum X) on a bracket that keeps the flash centred and above the lens (12-18"). I use bounce (index card + rubber band) when I can, and if that's not an option and I'm at close range (10-15'), I use a full bounce card similar to Lumiquest products, otherwise it's direct flash. I almost always drag the shutter as this improves the look of flash tremendously and sometimes do cross-lighting if time/space permits.

I personally use the Flip-It. But my question to you is, since the Demb product folds neatly out of the way, why not keep it on for the time when there is nothing to bounce off of? I promise, this WILL happen.

 

That feature is one of the main reasons I bought the thing.

Daniel is quite correct. You'll be using the Demb quite often, and it works very well.

 

Russ<div></div>

wp - i'm a big advocate of bouncing whenever possible, even if it means full power pops off high ceilings.

 

when I can't bounce, and I need to take a lot of shots, I set up umbrellas. if it's just a quickie, I'll put the lightsphere, which is, IMHO, one of the few things the gary fong is actually good at.

I like the Newton bracket and bouncing as much as possible. I own the Lightsphere and Omnibounce, and occasionally find them very useful. Most of the time I use an index card rubber banded to the flash or a DIY bouncer cut from sheets of white hobby foam, and attached with rubber band or velcro. When I can't bounce I use a mini softbox.

 

"And there's an easy way to avoid those shadows: pull the subjects away from the wall."

 

That is an easy way to solve the problem, assuming it's an option. I take a lot of shots where I don't feel that is an option, so the bracket is a necessity for me.

Consider watching these videos:

 

http://www.abetterbouncecard.com

What Todd Wilson posted is better (YMMV) and cheaper for sure IMHO. I did it myself and

cost me for the total $5.00, yes leadies and gents $5.00 with a trip to rag store (got the kit

from

MIchaels store here in US).

There's certainly no harm in using the Demb Flip-it. It's way better than direct flash. However, from looking at the images on their site, I see the main problem with it, and it underscores the advantage of the Lightsphere. All the flash in those pictures is bouncing off the Demb. The foreground is bright, and as the light falls off, the background gets dark. It's not a lot different than direct flash, except that the Demb unit is absorbing the intensity of the light somewhat by simply reflecting it...at your subject.

 

What the Lightsphere does is diffuse the direct blast of light and allow it to pass through (rather than reflecting it like the Demb), softening the light in a much more pleasing way. The second thing it does is act just like a lampshade. The wraparound indirect light bounces off all the room walls and surfaces behind and to the sides and softens the shadows BEHIND the subject (like those sharp shadows you see behind Superman on the Demb website), and provides a much more natural lighting look.

 

The domes further modify the light pattern. The white dome acts as an artificial "ceiling", reducing the light going up (but still allowing some to pass through, which is important). This works in rooms with black or dark ceilings, or outdoors at night with NO ceiling. In daytime, I point the unit directly at the subject with the white dome on, and it gives a nice soft fill light and catch light for the eyes.

 

The amber dome turns the entire flash burst from the unit into a tungsten light source, to match tungsten-lit rooms. Then, simply set your camera for a tungsten white balance, and you have shots that look great and well-balanced.

 

The chrome dome has a horizontal kicker panel inside, that directs more light forward, increasing your light output for larger group shots. The open hole in the top blasts direct light to reflect off the ceiling, to add downlight to the room.

 

The Whaletale is a modification of these principles, and I understand it works well too. For me, the Lightsphere is just simple and effective.

 

And, I think flash brackets are bulky, heavy, and outdated. The Lightsphere eliminates the need for them, and every pound of weight I don't have to carry around all afternoon is just fine with me. If you're having problems with shadows against walls, then DON'T shoot into walls. Angle 45 or 90 deg. away from them. Walls are usually ugly to shoot against anyway.

 

Learning to balance your flash output with the flash compensation dial, and using the Lightsphere will make any indoor shots better.

as was said it is a mayyer of you are comfortable and what you like. I gave the gary fong away and I use flip it on a bracket. it workes for me..

Not all brackets are heavy or hard to use. The StroboFlip VH2000 is as compact as you can get and light weight.

The Demb Diffuser can mimic the results from most other types of diffusers, although the LS is better in some situations (mostly light colored medium/small rooms). So I wouldn't go buying a LS expecting great things.

 

As for the bracket, if you bounce with modifiers, most brackets will put your light source even higher, since the head tilt and the added modifier on top adds height. This is where the problem lies. Your coverage of the subject is affected, as well as the bounce itself in rooms with medium to low ceilings. That is why ditching the bracket in these situations makes sense. However, you have to weight this against those times where you need the height. If you can stay away from walls in every situation and/or never need to worry about side shadows outside where you need to have the flash head direct against bright sun (for instance), then you can ditch the bracket permanently. I personally use the bracket for other things besides flash placement. I have a flexible arm attached for shade cards, hang toys off the bracket for use with difficult kids, and have my slave transmitter attached. However, sometimes I take it off during the reception--so my suggestion is--why not use it sometimes and sometimes not, where it makes sense? There are foldable brackets if you don't like the idea of carrying a bulky bracket around.

 

As for the two strobe idea--get a Metz 54MZ-4 or 58AF-1. They both have a secondary reflector on the flash and the 58 allows it in ETTL and with more control over the power. Personally, if you have your primary flash set up to give some forward light combined with bounce light--something the Demb Diffuser is designed to do--I find it is all you need.

 

In the end, it is entirely up to you how you want to have your light. Analyze the situtations you run in to and come up with personal solutions that make sense for you. There is no one solution.

I use Lightspheres, Lightsphere knock-offs, Sto-fen Omnis, Demb Flash Diffuser Pros, and various Lumiquest products. If I had to pick only one to use right now, it would be the DFD Pro. It's considerably more flexible than the others I use, and is adaptable to more situations without needing to add or remove parts on the fly.

<p>I want to thank EVERYBODY who responded to my question. I was pretty sure there would not be a consensus recommendation, and I was right. But that's okay. I just wanted to hear what everybody thought.</p>

 

<p>At the upcoming wedding I'm shooting, I expect to be carrying two cameras. But I don't see how I can carry both cameras if one of them also has a bracket. Don't quite see how I can let the camera + bracket + flash dangle off my shoulder. To be honest, I'm a tad concerned about how this is going to work even without the bracket. I've shot with two cameras before, but usually without flash. Not sure it's a smart idea to leave a camera with a biggish lens AND a hot-shoe mounted strobe hanging off my shoulder for someone to bump into. At the moment, anyway, I do not expect to have an assistant who can follow me around and hold the camera that I'm not using.</p>

 

<p>So, what do you do?</p>

 

<ol type="A">

<li>I carry two cameras around, one with a bracket, and I try to be careful not to bump into anything.</li>

 

<li>I have an assistant follow me around to hold the camera I'm not using.</li>

 

<li>I shoot mainly with one camera, for the entire event. I do have a second camera only as a back-up, don't actually carry it with me all the time, and don't in fact use the second camera at all if my first camera doesn't break.</li>

 

<li>I do use two cameras, but I generally shoot with just one camera at a time. I decide which camera + lens combo is right for the current environment and go with it, leaving the other camera and lenses locked in my car or somewhere safe.</li>

 

<li>None of the above (please explain).</li>

</ol>

William,

 

The 'how to carry two camera bodies' type question should be able to be answered in the archives as I've seen this discussed several times.

 

For me, it would be "E" or "A". I use two cameras. Usually without brackets. One on the neck, and one on the right shoulder. If I'm using a bracket, that rig is the one on the shoulder.

 

When not using the shoulder camera, my hand remains on the other body so that it cannot slip past my bent elbow which is usually holding the rig against my side.

<p>Grant,</p>

 

<p>Thanks. I did search and did find a number of threads talking about straps, whether to hang off shoulder or around neck, etc. I was specifically worrying about something that I didn't see anybody talk about, which is the SAFETY of the gear when you're lugging it around. I mean, with my medium-big Pentax 50-135 on the K10D, plus the bracket, plus the strobe mounted on the bracket, well, it makes getting around in a crowd rather awkward, not to mention risky.</p>

 

<p>I have been trying this, and I am able to carry both cameras with the straps around my neck. This way the camera I'm not using lies flat on my chest where I can keep an eye on it and where I can grab it quickly if I need it, and on my chest, it doesn't swing around much. I haven't yet tried carrying both cameras while, say, taking a ten-mile walk around the lake in my neighborhood, and even that won't be a great test, as I can get around the lake in a few hours, but I expect the wedding + reception to last longer than that. But it's not my comfort that I'm worried most about, it's the safety of the cameras and lenses.</p>

<p>Guess I'll find out what works and doesn't work!</p>

I use my own cobbled strap system to carry my second camera IF I use one. You probably saw it if you looked up earlier threads. When I carry it, it isn't on a bracket, and it is a 20D so it is small and light. On occasion, I've even used the pop up flash for fill only. I don't put any flashes on it, although I could probably manage the 380EX on it since it is also small and light. The way my strap is, the camera is cradled against my left side and does not slide off my shoulder or anything. Like using a bracket or not, I don't see why you can't use one sometimes and not use one at other times--so use a second camera sometimes and not use one other times, depending on the situation. Sometimes, I like having the second camera to put fast primes on during the ceremony for handheld use. Other times, I shoot the entire wedding with one camera. Decide what you can and can't do, will and won't do (for safety or whatever) and then use when appropriate.