Image ratings on PN from a new members perspective

In my own humble opinion, lots of us take photo.net and the ratings we get here, or hand out, way too seriously. What is this site after all? It certainly is not a juried show in the traditional sense. It is a place, which allows us to self publish our work and have it critiqued and rated by peers. No more, no less. We should enjoy it as such and remember, that most of our peers are not professionals or experts.

 

The ratings we get add a little bit of exitement, but they are also a game, which some know how to play very well. And this game would get totally out of hand, I believe, if we eliminated the anonymous ratings. I fully agree with Rob, who said: "when all ratings were known by who gave them, all this did was provide people to hate-rate each other. One person gives one of your photos a 2/2 and you go and give all their photos 1/1. You give me a 7/7 and I give you a 7/7 regardless of what I actually thought of your works."

 

So let's chill out, people. In the big scheme of things, who cares if we get a 3.5 or a 6.5 on one of our photos? There are more important things in this world to worry about!

<i>"In my own humble opinion, lots of us take photo.net and the ratings we get here, or hand out, way too seriously."</i><P>

Amen to that. So much angst over something, that in the bigger scheme of things, is really so unimportant.

Jeese Barb. No one cares about the numbers. Who gives a damn about these larger issues

here? This is PN, after all, not some save the wacko world blog for the effete elite.

Michael and Barb... I think you both miss the point. The numbers are meaningless, or nearly

so. The issue is the people behind the numbers. This is about people and what they think

and who they are and is their opinion worth anything. Anonymous numbers are like picking

lottery numbers on a $1 ticket -- meaningless. A 5 or a 3 from someone of some talent who

you respect has much more meaning than a 7 or a 1 from some anomymous rater. This is

about the exchange of information between photographers. The ratings are just a convenient

shorthand. It should be all about the people and the communication. Numbers from

anonymous raters provide no communication or meaning.

Hello Mark,

I?m here just since last year also, but as you have been told the problem is there because I agree with you and Biliana, the people don?t show interested in critiques, just points...for the people who post here and belongs to the comunity have to think of that and makes a critique before a vote! that?s the point make at least some comments when you can...hope this change

Saludos

Daniella

If I may commment, though it has been a while since the last post, I am a "beginner" to photo.net even though I have been a member for a few years now. I dont use the sight to its full advantage, and with the exchange rate for South Africa so blegh most of the time I dont purchase a subscription.

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I do, however, post my photos for critique. Most often, they only get rated, with few comments posted. I am a beginner, I know nothing in the Bigger Picture that is Photography, and I like to learn. I know there are a lot of professionals out there who one can learn a great deal from and its a bonus when someone who knows their stuff submits a critique on a photo.

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I get discouraged from the ratings my photos recieve, moreso when there are no comments to support the ratings. I know my photos are nothing compared to POTW quality, but I believe ratings should be given in context to some extent. I am a beginner, but I aspire to be more, so rate my photos accordingly.

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My biggest example that I believe fits in what the orginal post was all about is this image: <A href="http://www.photo.net/photo/5964212" target=_blank>http://www.photo.net/photo/5964212</A> "Birthday Party Intel"...this photo recieved an average of 4/7 in Originality before someone kindly came and made the comment "I haven't seen a picture like this before... 7/7" which upped the average to 5/7. Now you tell me, how many photos are there out there of rats in hats that one is inclined to rate a 2 or a 3 in Originality. Now I understand rats, whether in hats or not, is not everyone's cup of tea, but if you simply dislike rats (like some dislike spiders) then dont rate the photo.

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I always try to ask, "If you rate negatively, please leave a comment so I can learn" but I still get very few comments. I am 100% honest in my plea...I do want to learn, and I, as a member, thrive on my ratings and comments...not simply to prove anything to me, but to help guide me on the right path in progress.

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I hope this made sense :)

Everywhere I look on this site I see complaints about the rating system. It is quite obvious that it just does not work ...and it does not take long for people to realise this very obvious fact . I joined P.NET about three months ago for the same reason as most other people, to improve my photographic skills, but I feel that in the main I am wasting my time for the following reasons. When I post a photo, the first rating it receives is almost always a 3/3. Recently I posted 2 photos to be rated, and within SECONDS of their appearing in the Critique Forum they had both been rated 3/3. This has happened to me (and to other much better photographers than me)so often that I am convinced somebody out there is doing this systematically for some reason. The thing is that this reduces an already flawed rating system

to almost worthless rating system. I have yet to receive a critique fron a 3/3 rater....I have a total of 138/3 ratings!

There are basically two ways our photo are appraised on this site ...ratings and critiques. I find I get very few worthwile critiques, which leaves me with ratings which, as so many people before me have pointed out, is of very limited value. Lots of people tell us to ignore the rating system altogether...but why should we capitulate so easily, why should we not have the CHOICE at least? The Elves who administer this site must be well aware of the level of discontent on the site regarding the rating system .....what do they do about it....NOTHING as far as I can see, they don't even seem to acknowledge there is a problem !

Wouldn't it be interesting to have a poll of members to establish the level of satisfaction they feel regarding this and other issues. I suspect most people are quite happy with the site as a whole, but wouldn't it be very interesting to put it to the test! If this site were another type of service/business it would have to respond to so many complaints from it's customers.........perhaps we don't complain LOUDLY enough..perhaps I will in future !

A suggeston : when we post a photo in the Critiques Forum could we have the choice of selecting DIRECT RATING ONLY...I think this would be a progressive first step... but I won't be holding my breath waiting!

SLAN....FRANK.

I have never felt an anonymous rating was worth anything. Without the ability to view the

work of the rater I have no way to know whether or not the rating is of value. This is as true

of a 7/7 rating as a 3/3 rating. The 3 rating bot that is clouding the system is a good

example of a worthless rating. It is not the number that really matters, but he skill and

creativity of the rater.

<<Without the ability to view the work of the rater I have no way to know whether or not the rating is of value.>>

 

This premise is completely wrong. One does not have to be a good photographer in order to make valid, worthwhile, and useful critiques on other peoples work. What matters, when critiquing work, is the critique itself, nothing more.

While the rating of a talented or untalented photographer is certainly of some value, without

the context of their own work it is difficult to place a value on their rating. i'm sure a pair of

5s from an Ansel Adams would carry a very different meaning than a pair of 7s from me.

I don't care about ratings, so I don't look at who gives them. A 7 from you and a 1 from Ansel are equally meaningless.

 

What is of value to me is what people say.

Rob: That is certainly your privilege. Exchanging views with my peers has always been of

value to me. A rating from someone whose work I can't place in context -- whether it is a 1

or a 7 -- really is meaningless. I was referring exclusively to the ratings, not to the critiques.

Critiques provide their own context.

Ratings provide zero context and zero value.

Is there anything that can be done regarding the rating system...is there any "suggestion board" or something that one can offer proactive adjustments? Is there a way of making the webmasters hear us (besides this thread)? A poll of some sorts? A petition (even on an external site like <A href="http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html">http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html</A> or something similar?

I think the fix would be very easy. No anonymous ratings.

<<Is there a way of making the webmasters hear us (besides this thread)?>>

 

You mean aside from the hundreds of threads complaining about ratings but offering diametrically opposed solutions that show up every week? You say one way, and the next day someone says we need the exact opposite.

 

Revenge rating is the obvious consequence of no anonymous ratings, which has been tried. Nothing proposed here is new.

 

The /real/ solution is for people to stop caring about the perceived value of 2 stupid numbers.

I dont think its a matter of people caring as in for their ego, but rather those (and I use myself as an example here) that are trying to learn and get nothing but low ratings with no constructive critism to follow so one can learn!

 

I think ratings should be followed with a critique/comment. They should make it compulsary for both fields to be filled in.

The fact is that photo.net is a community. You need to treat it as such. It is not a site for paid critiques. If you want to learn, you need to study. Don't wait for people to tell you what is and isn't "right" or "wrong" about your images.

 

Tying ratings to comments doesn't make the comments or the ratings any more meaningful. I could just reply "too dark" and give you a 3/3 on an image and you'll have learned nothing except that one person thinks the image is too dark (and for that you don't even know if it's really too dark or if your monitor is dark or my monitor is dark).

 

Tying comments to ratings also gives revenge rating the fuel it needs to (once again) over-run the site.

Then again, I also posted a new post, similar to this one: <A href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Mo0Q">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Mo0Q</A> with a link to a photo of mine (which I incidently submitted for critique and got nothing) which i explained I was very excited about and asked for comments on how composition etc could be improved, but it was moved or removed because I cant find it anywhere and the emailed response link doesnt work....

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Its beginning to look like all forms of finding a way to learn on this site are being blocked by someone out there in the forum... :(

That's also been tried (for high and low ratings). For low ratings, the critiques upset people even more than the numbers (and generated flame wars in the photo comments). For high ratings, it was an endless stream of "Great shot!" "Perfect!" "Wonderful!" and other useless comments. As Rob pointed out, the suggestions here are not new.

I dont believe one HAS to study to learn. I'm not asking for people to tell me HOW to do something, nor am I asking people to explain exactly how the photo in question, but rather I'd want other people's perspectives on the photo. One does become "stale" in their photography and will tend to lean towards what they always shoot, and sometimes will miss something in a photo that someone else might have seen. So comments like "taken from a lower angle, this photo might have had more impact" or "trying this photo at a different time of day might set the mood better" or even simple things like "if her dress/hand/leg/foot/whatever hadnt been cropped this would have been a great picture" - something that makes the photographer think. Not all things are able to be seen when taking a photo, so yes, I think critique and rating do go hand in hand. If you are just rating for the sake of oh-i-dont-like-this-photo-oh-i-like-this-photo then rather dont...but thats just my honest opinion, and thats simply what they are: my opinion.

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You do raise good points though in your one statememt(see below)

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<STRONG>Tying ratings to comments doesn't make the comments or the ratings any more meaningful. I could just reply "too dark" and give you a 3/3 on an image and you'll have learned nothing except that one person thinks the image is too dark (and for that you don't even know if it's really too dark or if your monitor is dark or my monitor is dark).</STRONG>

<<Its beginning to look like all forms of finding a way to learn on this site are being blocked by someone out there in the forum... :(>>

 

What many people have forgotten is how LARGE photo.net actually is. Your image is just one among /thousands/ uploaded to photo.net every single day. Everyone uploading and rating and using this site do so with their own goals and do so at their own pace. That you did not receive any critiques should not be a shock.

 

Posting critique requests outside of the critique request forum is frowned upon for obvious reasons.

 

Yes, you want to learn and you want to get feedback. I completely understand this. But you need to take the initiative.

 

<<I dont believe one HAS to study to learn.>>

 

Wow. I sure hope you don't actually mean this.

I guess what we need is for everyone to act like members of a community. I joined, and stay,

mostly to view the work of other photographers. Over the years I have found the inspiration

supplied by the work of other photographers the best tool to learning. To the extent that

critiques and ratings contribute to that process they are good. To the extent they get

personal they aren't. This issue is really one that affects many online communities -- there

will always be some who act like children and spoil it for others.

Mike, I've only been a memeber here a short while (3 yrs) and I honestly have only even SEEN the forum section recently (not a very user-friendly forum IMHO but thats not the point) and I openly admit I dont know whats been tried and what hasnt - all i know since I've been here is that there is a rating system that runs from 1-7 points in both Aesthetics and Originality, and a Critique system.

 

I guess whats being said in the long run in this thread, is that there are clearly no stones left unturned, and one should simply just seek other forums where the site is a little more well thought out and coded, and where the people are actually more helpful, or just shut up and accept the chaotic rating system.

 

Oh and I dont think I'd complain about a list of "great shot"'s or "perfect"'s or "wonderful" in my portfolio haha! (and its generally the kind of comment I leave when rating high, since i'm not really qualified to critique, but I do try add in what I like best about the photo and maybe something I'd do differently if I were right there taking the photo....)

<i> it was moved or removed because I cant find it anywhere and the emailed response link doesnt work.... </i><P>

It was deleted because you posted a request for critiques in the Casual Conversations forum. The About This Forum section on the home page of that forum makes it quite clear that it is not the place for image critiques. Some of the topical forums, such as the Wedding and Events forum, allow critique requests for specific types of images which fit the topic of those forums.<P>

<i> Its beginning to look like all forms of finding a way to learn on this site are being blocked by someone out there in the forum... :(</i><P>

Limiting general critique requests to the Image Critique forum rather than having them in the Casual Conversations forum is not blocking "all forms of finding a way to learn."