retina IIa worst ergonomics ever?

I was out shooting my lovely little Retina IIa today and couldn't think of one

element of the design (other than the winder) that could have been more poorly

placed (still love it though)... but it got me wondering... anyone have any

camera with worse ergonomics?

I have large hands and the Rollei 35Se although small is not very easy to use , especially with a flash (hotshoe on the bottom of the camera).

Today I used a beautiful first-type Exakta Varex (~1950/51)with a Steinheil Cassaron 40mm lens. Lens is coated, but not "preset". So you have to focus with right hand, carefully stop down, halting when you've aligned the index mark with the selected stop, with right hand, and, peering into the now dark viewing glass, press the shutter with left hand.

 

But, like you, I love my camera. If I wanted it to be convenient, I'd be using a point and shoot.

I think the TLR's design is not good. You need to switch your hands when you wind the film and focus. At the same time, you alsos need to have a hand to hold it. I do like TLR except its design. they are not user friendly.

Voigtlander's Prominent is also a worse design. However, the mechanism design and ideas are original and new.

Kevin, it depends on the TLR. Also, TLR is a different kind of camera, usually meant to be used on a tripod or with a heavy strap, never just held in your hands. For my vote, Ive got a folding Franka Werke 6x9 camera that the finder does great for portrait mode, but for landscape mode the entire camera has to be upside-down. However due to the design of the shutter linkage, the shutter will not fire at all if the camera is upside-down! So you have to compose with the camera upsidedown and then rotate the camera 180 degrees to shoot the photo!

I'll second the Exaktas, all left handed and awkward, but they still look great. Probably best left in the cupboard and taken out only when you need to photograph very slowly.

Tony

Partrick,

I understand your point. For TLR like Mamiya, ROlleiflex have a film winder really needs to switch hands when you take them out. However, I like TLR with Rolleicord's design. You can nearly do all the process with 2 hands and no switching process need to be done.

And I don't think TLR is used to stay on the tripod. Photographers in the days before SLR become popular used to use TLR, Press Large Format like Speed Graflex.

Hassies and Bonies :-)

Broniessssss!

Most old cameras don`t even have autofocus or auto-exposure.......and its real hard to find one that's digital. What were they thinking way back then?

I guess they just did the best they could with what they had.If the old cameras were like new cameras.......who would want them?

All the Linhof Technika-type large format metal field cameras are real pigs to work with wide angle lenses. As the lens focal length gets shorter the front standard of the camera disappears inside the casing making it more and more difficult to get at the lens and shutter. There were various clever gadgets designed to overcome the problem but the ingenuity of the gadgets just underlines the difficulty in use. The cameras I am thinking of include the Linhof Technika range, some Graflexes, Meridian, MPP, some Horseman metal cameras etc.

 

However overcoming the difficulties was part of the fun and the image quality from 4x5 is still unbeatable (except by 8x10).

<P>Another vote for the Exakta. Beautiful cameras but not easy. I guess though to be fair they were well thought out, just by somebody who didn't think the same way as the rest of us.</P><P>On a different but much lower plane is the Lubitel. Simple in concept, incredibly badly built.</P>

I've found Retinas a little different from other cameras(had the IIa and use a IIc now) but you get used to it very quickly. Same with TLR, in fact, my Yashicamat and my IIc are my favorite cameras. I'm left handed by the way, maybe that's why...

<i>I think the TLR's design is not good. You need to switch your hands when you wind the film and focus. </i>

 

 

 

My Rolleicord has both on the same side and is easy to use.

 

Steve.

Hi

 

I think we get used to one or the other and it doesn't become a

distraction. I rarely use my Exactas and I think the Exa IIa is

actually very ergonomic is size and shape. The big brother I find

cumbersome because in the ready case it doesn't sit flat where

I place it. The left handed winder/speed control

However, The only time I really felt all thumbs is when I

first used the Yashicamat. I'd been using the Yashica D with

winding knob on the left and focus on the right. The 'Mat had

this self-cocking winder on the right and focus on the left.

I still prefer the D to this day...I can't afford a Rolleiflex

anyway!!

i don't understand the comments regarding rolleiflex: focusing is with left hand, film advance is with right. how is this in any way an ergonomically bad design?

 

you hold the camera with both hands, you're looking at the screen, your left hand is focusing, at the proper moment, your right forefinger shoots, and immediately following, your right hand cranks to the next frame, you're already focusing again with your left hand...

 

isn't this basically the same as most cameras where you focus with left hand and fire/advance with right?

Contarex Bullseye has the worst ergnomics I've ever seen (and I have an Exacta VX and am right handed). Beautiful camera, wonderful lenses, appalling user interface. And the polar opposite -- the Leica M2 (also beautiful, wonderful lenses).

 

You can use the Bullseye, but you really have to want it.

A Retina IIa was my main camera for years and I wasn't conscious or got used to whatever quirks it had. And back in the days when it was designed people could only afford to take 2 or 3 pictures a day so ergonomics weren't very important. My nominee would be the Olympus 35RC.

I don't know about the Retina IIa but I do like the design of my Retina IB. Within its limitations, it seems to me to be just about the nicest 35 folder I've ever come across.

 

As for the TLR question, my view of the how nice the TLR is to use has changed for the better, since I added a pentaprism and 'soft touch' release to my Rolleiflex.

 

I think that everyone's view of what is ergonomic will vary with their requirements and familiarity with a particular camera.<div></div>

And because when you use Rolleicords, you don't need to switch hands . That's why I like Rolleicord more than Rolleiflex.

 

When you need to shot in a fast way, Rolleiflex really can not help me.

I think that many of the old German classic cameras were actually designed to be properly used with an eveready case. The Retina IIa is an excellent example of this, which actually allows it to fit in the hands properly, not with just a nub of right side of the body to support it.<P>I think the old Contax II and IIa are also much improved in ergonomics with the case.

The Voigtlander Prominent and Vito III do not have great ergonomics. The viewfinder is to the right of the body as viewed from the rear. Difficult to use since I have gone close to blind in my right eye (macular edema). Also the focus adjustment knob does double duty as the film rewind knob.

I have a Retina IIIC and I hate having the film advance lever under the camera as opposed to the IIa.

Good ergonomics? Canon FTb and F-1.

If you want additional information on this model take a look at the Retina Guides posted on Mischa Koning's website.

 

http://kodak.3106.net/index.php?p=216

 

-Paul

It doesn't seem to be an accident that both the Barnack Leicas and the Retina IIa had almost identical ergonomics that established the standard among miniature cameras into the autofocus age. And then Kodak abandoned them with the IIc' and on. <p> I never had any problems with the Rolleiflexes and even my old Voigtlander Superb gave no problems. My nominee for the worst ergonomics is the whole tribe of Zeiss Super Ikontas -- nevertheless I love 'em!

kevin, what do you mean by switching hands with the Rolleiflex as opposed to the Rolleicord? I mean, if the focus and film advance are on the same side, you CANNOT do both essentially simultaneously, as you can with the Rolleiflex, hence Rolleicord is SLOWER, not faster, to use...Rolleiflex is much FASTER to shoot, with the crank...